That's what makes it fun comparing apples to oranges.
Now that the 8600s is complete here are my thoughts about the kit. The parts are of high quality, but I was disappointed to find the 12a* tube sockets were not ceramic or porcelain like the 300b sockets and the headphone jack was a flimsy plastic piece. The instructions were excellent and the best I have encountered in DIY electronics. It was such a pleasure building this, I was sad when I fired it up. It has more parts than the Sun Valley EQ1616 but I really enjoyed this kit vs the mostly point to point wiring on the Sun Valley kit.
I am on a tight budget and consulted with Victor as to what my upgrade steps would be. I picked up the stock 8600S and the Takman resistors because it would be hard to unsolder the existing resistors - these Takman's have a tight tolerance and I did not have to create the little kinks in the resistor legs to get them installed. They were a little tight but they all got in and soldered. For the first time I used Cardas Quad Eutectic solder - it is pretty expensive but it melted like butter and all my solder was shiny and never had any bad joints.
I have Audyn True Copper Caps waiting to be installed but wanted to hear the 8600S stock and let it play for about 100 hours. I will eventually get the Lundahls too.
K so how does it sound so far ? For starters it does everything the VTA ST-70 does but I am hearing a more laid back soundstage with little more air around instruments.
What tubes am I running ? The Cossor 300B black plates have a beautiful blue glow, the 12au7 RCA Clear tops and Mullard NOS 12ax7 all paint a slightly warm image which is just the way I like it. I have never heard a 300B until now and it is everything I have read.
Now that the 8600s is complete here are my thoughts about the kit. The parts are of high quality, but I was disappointed to find the 12a* tube sockets were not ceramic or porcelain like the 300b sockets and the headphone jack was a flimsy plastic piece. The instructions were excellent and the best I have encountered in DIY electronics. It was such a pleasure building this, I was sad when I fired it up. It has more parts than the Sun Valley EQ1616 but I really enjoyed this kit vs the mostly point to point wiring on the Sun Valley kit.
I am on a tight budget and consulted with Victor as to what my upgrade steps would be. I picked up the stock 8600S and the Takman resistors because it would be hard to unsolder the existing resistors - these Takman's have a tight tolerance and I did not have to create the little kinks in the resistor legs to get them installed. They were a little tight but they all got in and soldered. For the first time I used Cardas Quad Eutectic solder - it is pretty expensive but it melted like butter and all my solder was shiny and never had any bad joints.
I have Audyn True Copper Caps waiting to be installed but wanted to hear the 8600S stock and let it play for about 100 hours. I will eventually get the Lundahls too.
K so how does it sound so far ? For starters it does everything the VTA ST-70 does but I am hearing a more laid back soundstage with little more air around instruments.
What tubes am I running ? The Cossor 300B black plates have a beautiful blue glow, the 12au7 RCA Clear tops and Mullard NOS 12ax7 all paint a slightly warm image which is just the way I like it. I have never heard a 300B until now and it is everything I have read.
I am beginning to hear what the hype is all about. 16 hours into the stock build and I am hearing more of the actual instruments and occasionally “huh? Where did that sound come from”. At times some musical passages seem out of sync. There is more human love emotion in my music.
I find myself shaking my head not in disbelief, the music is there, the PRAT is on another level. Folks going to a Naim or Brit audio company will know what I am referring to.
I would have not bought this kit if it was not for all the glowing reviews and the good prices Victor sells 300b tubes at. I secured face plate and transformer cover. I don’t plan to make any changes, until I can afford the Lundahls.
Oh so how does the vta st70 feel about all this? It is a great amp and was my go to impress amp but will take a back seat for now. I don’t plan to sell it.
I have all the parts for an Aikido preamp but now will look at an Aikido tube buffer with zero gain as a preamp.
I find myself shaking my head not in disbelief, the music is there, the PRAT is on another level. Folks going to a Naim or Brit audio company will know what I am referring to.
I would have not bought this kit if it was not for all the glowing reviews and the good prices Victor sells 300b tubes at. I secured face plate and transformer cover. I don’t plan to make any changes, until I can afford the Lundahls.
Oh so how does the vta st70 feel about all this? It is a great amp and was my go to impress amp but will take a back seat for now. I don’t plan to sell it.
I have all the parts for an Aikido preamp but now will look at an Aikido tube buffer with zero gain as a preamp.
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I am manually switching inputs for now. I plan to build a 3 input that switches ground and signals. I have a ton of 6n1p and variants so hoping to build off that but might change to a tube that is cable/capacitance sensitive and with zero mu.
Between a 2V streamer and Sun Valley phono preamp, the Aikido preamp I planned is now overkill.
My speakers are zu omen DW mk2 as well as LSA towers.
Between a 2V streamer and Sun Valley phono preamp, the Aikido preamp I planned is now overkill.
My speakers are zu omen DW mk2 as well as LSA towers.
Couldn’t leave it alone. I had bunch of porcelain 12a* sockets so replaced the stock plasticky with them. While it was opened I put in Audyn True Copper caps, fired it up and was not expecting the huge difference from stock caps to this. Neutral but slightly bright top end was gone and it became too warm. Detail was there in spades. Took out the Mullard 12ax7 NOS and Genelax brought little sparkle but not enough for me. Now have a Telefunken NOS 12ax7 and the balance has been restored mostly. I have Clarity ESA caps from another project I can try out if I still find this too warm. I can also add smaller caps in parallel to give it more sparkle but that will be last resort.
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I've completed my build a few weeks ago. I read somewhere that the True Copper Cap is only safe for speaker applications and that the True Copper Max should be used for high voltage coupling purposes. You may want to confirm this with Intertechnik.
I used Amtrans Golden Black capacitors in mine and they are absolutely lovely. I cannot recommend the Lundahl enough if you are considering your upgrade paths.
I used Amtrans Golden Black capacitors in mine and they are absolutely lovely. I cannot recommend the Lundahl enough if you are considering your upgrade paths.
Thx for the mention of Lundahl - could you tell me what differences you heard? Yes, some have cautioned on Audible copper cap but so many have had no issues with higher B+ but I am keeping close eye on it.
For those wanting a sleeper 12ax7 tube I suggest checking out Psvane, it is from Shuguang, boy it reminds me so much of Mullard From Blackburn.
Starting on an Aikido tube buffer with remote volume this weekend. Unsure if I should remove pot from tu8600 or open it wide with this no gain preamp. Suggestions?
For those wanting a sleeper 12ax7 tube I suggest checking out Psvane, it is from Shuguang, boy it reminds me so much of Mullard From Blackburn.
Starting on an Aikido tube buffer with remote volume this weekend. Unsure if I should remove pot from tu8600 or open it wide with this no gain preamp. Suggestions?
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Thx Rayma. My concern is how much “extra” this remote volume and input relays injects into audio signal. I was thinking of adding a bypass switch so it’s either full remote or full buffer with tu8600 pot.
I could not find a good stash of 12bh7 tubes so resorted to 12au7 since I have boxes of them.
I could not find a good stash of 12bh7 tubes so resorted to 12au7 since I have boxes of them.
The Lundahl removes that layer of fog that is present throughout the frequency range. It also brings far greater speed as well as tightness and dynamics to the low frequencies. There is a marked increase in retrieval of detail and high frequency extension.
I recommend you leave the pot in. I bypassed the pot totally, but the resultant gain is quite high. I didn't have any issues because I can adjust the output on my source, and the pairing preamp is an AVC.
Thank you for such a detailed response. It will be on my list to get this year, just hope Victor still has stock then.
That Audyn cap sounds really nice but I was still uneasy about using is in an amp and not crossovers despite several going with this approach, so I replaced it with the stock cap and I can say that there is nothing wrong it the stock cap, it sounds good and is neutral to me. I prefer to keep parts stick as intended by creator and do the tube rolling instead.
If you do go with other caps I do suggest talking to Victor, his prices are pretty good, just like his tubes. I have no regrets getting into 300B’s with the Cossor Black Plates.
That Audyn cap sounds really nice but I was still uneasy about using is in an amp and not crossovers despite several going with this approach, so I replaced it with the stock cap and I can say that there is nothing wrong it the stock cap, it sounds good and is neutral to me. I prefer to keep parts stick as intended by creator and do the tube rolling instead.
If you do go with other caps I do suggest talking to Victor, his prices are pretty good, just like his tubes. I have no regrets getting into 300B’s with the Cossor Black Plates.
8600S in Japan
Hey all,
Just finished a 8600S here in Japan. I purchased directly from Amtrans with their replacement resistor/cap pack and EH set of tubes.
I was super impressed with the kit (quality and design) and even more impressed with listening experience.
As front-end I am using Mytek 192DSD as pre- and DAC and ZU Omen MKII at the other end.
Happy Listening!
Hey all,
Just finished a 8600S here in Japan. I purchased directly from Amtrans with their replacement resistor/cap pack and EH set of tubes.
I was super impressed with the kit (quality and design) and even more impressed with listening experience.
As front-end I am using Mytek 192DSD as pre- and DAC and ZU Omen MKII at the other end.
Happy Listening!
This is my 2nd dw mk2, first one I couldnt stand, way too bright so sent it back within the trial period. That had the ERS caps. End of last year I tried it again but this time with Clarity Caps - it is night and day compared to my 1st go round but I suspect they used parts from their higher-end returned speakers as they usually do. The image is much wider and has more depth.
I also found adding 9ohm resistors helped with tone when I was using the vta st70. I still have those on my speakers attached to the 8600s and have yet to try without it. Hard to explain the improvements but it just sounded much better. Maybe also less work on the amp seeing 9ohms vs 12 ohms ? I will let the gurus here chime in.
I believe you can send email to zu and they can tell you what it was built with, provided the new owner didnt mod it after.
I also found adding 9ohm resistors helped with tone when I was using the vta st70. I still have those on my speakers attached to the 8600s and have yet to try without it. Hard to explain the improvements but it just sounded much better. Maybe also less work on the amp seeing 9ohms vs 12 ohms ? I will let the gurus here chime in.
I believe you can send email to zu and they can tell you what it was built with, provided the new owner didnt mod it after.
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