Here is my set up with my Elekit Gear
From right to left TU-8600R. best amp I have ever owned, along with the TU-8500.
Technics SH-8055 equalizer. used for room correction.
TT is Technics 1100 that I restored myself, tone arm is a oil dampened Audiocraft AC300mkII Unipivot, I got 2 other arm tubes and an assortment of weights to tune the arm to any cartridge.
And then my current restoration project, A Technics SP10MkII, with obsidian plinth. I currently have the power supply on my on my work bench for Re-cap
Im going to use my Tri-planar with the SP10MKII when it's completed.
From right to left TU-8600R. best amp I have ever owned, along with the TU-8500.
Technics SH-8055 equalizer. used for room correction.
TT is Technics 1100 that I restored myself, tone arm is a oil dampened Audiocraft AC300mkII Unipivot, I got 2 other arm tubes and an assortment of weights to tune the arm to any cartridge.
And then my current restoration project, A Technics SP10MkII, with obsidian plinth. I currently have the power supply on my on my work bench for Re-cap
Im going to use my Tri-planar with the SP10MKII when it's completed.
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Steve - glad you said that and not me.
Hmavv - great set-up (save the equalizer). Nice pair (of TT/TAs). I'm jealous of your TU-8600R. Want to try a 300B amp once I've got a pair of speakers better suited to 12wpc and the TU-8600R is at the top of my list.
I'll eventually rescue my Dual 701 from grand-daughter. If she gets to go off to school in fall (not hearing good things about that with the virus) will do so then.
Hmavv - great set-up (save the equalizer). Nice pair (of TT/TAs). I'm jealous of your TU-8600R. Want to try a 300B amp once I've got a pair of speakers better suited to 12wpc and the TU-8600R is at the top of my list.
I'll eventually rescue my Dual 701 from grand-daughter. If she gets to go off to school in fall (not hearing good things about that with the virus) will do so then.
I know... trust me I know. It was an ongoing debate with my friend. We did some blind A/B listening, I even put one of my Talisker 15 year aged bottles as a prize to raise the stakes. if he got it right even once it was his, listening was done with the sliders flat, He couldn't tell when it was going through the eq or not.
There is a lot more to this equalizer than meets the eye. Plus, it was NOS when I found it. still in its original box and packaging.
I've been PM'd in the past year with buy offers, ranging from $200 upwards of $500.
I get flack for the EQ all of the time! Lol, it dosen't bother me, I like what it does
The TU-8600R is my pride and joy. It's also the first 300B amp I've heard. I've heard plenty of solid state, and Kt88 based amps, and they were all good. But the 300B, Im just going to keep it short, It just brings the soul out in music.
That's a very nice Dual by the way! I hear it's supposed to be bad this fall due to the Flu/corona combo....
What are your plans with the Dual?
So, I'm looking to turntable cartridges for my 8500 system improvements. Just installed a Nagaoka MP-110 on my Orbit, will give it some burn in. Had the force set at around 1.7 initially, was getting some skipping, so upped to 2.0g, much much better...so I'm listening to Van Morrison "It's too late to stop now", sounds incredible...
Not sure. I'm working thru that and am thinking I may try a Hana cartridge on it as they get good reviews and I've not owned one. Don't really need to give it much thought until it happens.
You mention "adapters" for your opamps. Why so? The LM4562NA simply plug-in in place of the 2227P that they replaced.
Had not noticed the hybrid opamps in your post or when surfing the Sparkos website. Looking forward to your feedback on them.
What cartridges have you tried?
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I haven't read much about Hana cartridges, I just read a few reviews and they are priced nicely! maybe i'll put that on my 1100 when I get my SP10 running.
Yeah, I thought they were SOIC, but they arrived today and they turned out to be DIP8, I got some interesting findings to share here in a moment!
The hybrids are of my own making, with single to dual channel adapters. I used an OPA827 for the input and a Sparkos SS3601 for the gain section.. Results were not too good, i'll get on more detail in my next post, with pictures.
Audio-Technica
AT95e with an elliptical and shibata stylus.
VM750 with shibata and special line contact stylus.
ART-7
Ortofon
2M Red, Blue, and Black
All moving magnet, ART-7 is my first MC, And i'll never go back to MM.
Amen to that.
I sold my 2M Black and AT150Ti as I simply never listened to them.
Just ordered a SUT (LL1931) from K&K to try in the TU-8500.
I took some noise measurements through my EQ, of my favorite opamp used in the Tu-8500, including one that didn't meet my hopes. Noise comes from the circuit, current, heat, the inner workings of the OPAMP itself, tubes, and from outside influences. there's a lot of variables. The phono section easily has the hardest job, and is also probably the hardest to design, its taking an incredibly small signal and amplifying it, meaning that noise that wouldn't normally be a problem, becomes a bigger problem the end.
Each test was done with the Phono input set to MM, 3x gain for the tube section, volume set to max.
Also, the voltage regulators are the discreet Sparkos as stated before. I wish I would have tested before swapping to prove the difference. what I'm hearing now is a better noise control with them, maybe because they put out a cleaner DC voltage.
First up to bat is the stock JRC2068 that comes with the Tu-8500. It's noise comes in at about 8dB on the screen, this works to about 55dB of noise.
Second is the OPA2227, which reads 12dB on screen, that works out to about 59dB.
Third is something I threw together from online research. the result being good noise control by a JFET input, and the soundstage of a bipolar (my favorite and end game opamp). the combination Im using is an OPA1641/OPA1611. Reading comes in at 5dB on the screen, that's works out to about 52dB
Fourth is dual OPA827, noise reading on screen is about 8dB, that comes out to about 55dB.
Fifth is the LM4562, I picked these up thanks in part to gpdavis2 (Nice find!) I'll be using these for a few weeks to compare against my hybrid. Anyways noise reading on the EQ is about 5dB, that comes out yo about 52dB
And last was an opamp I had huge hopes for, the SS3062 by Sparkos labs. But unfortunately, due to its high noise (probably due to the high bias current) I don't recommend this opamp for use in a Phono circuit. It is better suited in other circuits where it can do wonders. Noise reading is about 24dB on screen which works out to 71dB, very very noisy
JRC2068- 55dB
OPA2227- 59dB
OPA1641/OPA1611- 52dB
OPA827- 55dB
LM4562- 52dB
SS3062- 71dB
It's good to point out again that the volume of the Tu-8500 was set to max, which is not a normal listening condition, I'f you have a 5mV MM cartridge you will most likely have the knob around less than 50%. During normal listening(depending on gain needed) the noise is either hardly audible like the 52dB (ear up against the speaker), or slightly audible ( standing a couple feet from the speakers).
Depending on the amount of gain needed by your cartridge you could be limited by which opamps you can use. This is what makes the TU-8500 one of the best Phono states I've ever owned and heard. The flexibility to change opamp is a great feature. For example the Opa2227 was my golden standard when using MM cartridges, but when I upgraded to an ultra low output cartridge like the ART-7, it became incredibly demanding of the TU-8500 Phonostage, even with a SUT. The OPA2227 became noiser at the higher gain needed, hence the use of a hybrid opamp with this cartridge, the noise disappeared at the new gains needed.
The hybrid opamp OPA1641/OPA1611 was a result of online research through audio forums, I learned that Jfet are highly regarded for inputs, while Bipolar are lef for their soundstage dynamics. If your going to use hybrids in the TU-8500 dual channel opamp are connected differently in each channel. In the left channel, channel 1 is used for the RIAA filter, and channel 2 is used for gain. in the right channel channel 2 is used for RIAA filter and channel 1 is used for gain.
In defense of the Sparkos labs opamp (although they are one of the best I've heard i'f three bunch) they clearly not meant for use in phono sections. The bias current in the SS3602 is about 4.5uA, while the bias currentb in something like the LM4562 is around 10nA, 450 times less. The SS3602 bring out a fantastic soundstage with a lot of dimension, I hope they can make an opamp better suited for phonostage in the future, this is probably why they shelved their phonostage that they had been workin on.
Each test was done with the Phono input set to MM, 3x gain for the tube section, volume set to max.
Also, the voltage regulators are the discreet Sparkos as stated before. I wish I would have tested before swapping to prove the difference. what I'm hearing now is a better noise control with them, maybe because they put out a cleaner DC voltage.
First up to bat is the stock JRC2068 that comes with the Tu-8500. It's noise comes in at about 8dB on the screen, this works to about 55dB of noise.
Second is the OPA2227, which reads 12dB on screen, that works out to about 59dB.
Third is something I threw together from online research. the result being good noise control by a JFET input, and the soundstage of a bipolar (my favorite and end game opamp). the combination Im using is an OPA1641/OPA1611. Reading comes in at 5dB on the screen, that's works out to about 52dB
Fourth is dual OPA827, noise reading on screen is about 8dB, that comes out to about 55dB.
Fifth is the LM4562, I picked these up thanks in part to gpdavis2 (Nice find!) I'll be using these for a few weeks to compare against my hybrid. Anyways noise reading on the EQ is about 5dB, that comes out yo about 52dB
And last was an opamp I had huge hopes for, the SS3062 by Sparkos labs. But unfortunately, due to its high noise (probably due to the high bias current) I don't recommend this opamp for use in a Phono circuit. It is better suited in other circuits where it can do wonders. Noise reading is about 24dB on screen which works out to 71dB, very very noisy
JRC2068- 55dB
OPA2227- 59dB
OPA1641/OPA1611- 52dB
OPA827- 55dB
LM4562- 52dB
SS3062- 71dB
It's good to point out again that the volume of the Tu-8500 was set to max, which is not a normal listening condition, I'f you have a 5mV MM cartridge you will most likely have the knob around less than 50%. During normal listening(depending on gain needed) the noise is either hardly audible like the 52dB (ear up against the speaker), or slightly audible ( standing a couple feet from the speakers).
Depending on the amount of gain needed by your cartridge you could be limited by which opamps you can use. This is what makes the TU-8500 one of the best Phono states I've ever owned and heard. The flexibility to change opamp is a great feature. For example the Opa2227 was my golden standard when using MM cartridges, but when I upgraded to an ultra low output cartridge like the ART-7, it became incredibly demanding of the TU-8500 Phonostage, even with a SUT. The OPA2227 became noiser at the higher gain needed, hence the use of a hybrid opamp with this cartridge, the noise disappeared at the new gains needed.
The hybrid opamp OPA1641/OPA1611 was a result of online research through audio forums, I learned that Jfet are highly regarded for inputs, while Bipolar are lef for their soundstage dynamics. If your going to use hybrids in the TU-8500 dual channel opamp are connected differently in each channel. In the left channel, channel 1 is used for the RIAA filter, and channel 2 is used for gain. in the right channel channel 2 is used for RIAA filter and channel 1 is used for gain.
In defense of the Sparkos labs opamp (although they are one of the best I've heard i'f three bunch) they clearly not meant for use in phono sections. The bias current in the SS3602 is about 4.5uA, while the bias currentb in something like the LM4562 is around 10nA, 450 times less. The SS3602 bring out a fantastic soundstage with a lot of dimension, I hope they can make an opamp better suited for phonostage in the future, this is probably why they shelved their phonostage that they had been workin on.
I got rid of most of my mm for the same reason, The only one I kept was the VM750SH since the stylus was pretty new.
Nice!! look forward to your listen results when you get it. I looked through a lot of their gear when you mentioned k&k in another post. I like their gear.
Well............... while interesting, I'm only care about what I actually hear with my ears and what provides the most enjoyment. Probably why I loaned my dual-trace Tektronix to a friend several years ago and have never bothered to ask for its return. Would probably make me worry about things that don't matter (things I can't hear).
At 0.12mV, the AT-ART7 is definitely down at the low end of things. I try to stay in the 0.3-0.5mV range.
K&K estimated a week delivery.
At 0.12mV, the AT-ART7 is definitely down at the low end of things. I try to stay in the 0.3-0.5mV range.
K&K estimated a week delivery.
Yeah, it only becomes a bigger issue if you need a lot of gain or if you are using headphones. I use my HD800 often and noise that is normally inaudible with my speakers, become very audible with headphones, but it's no longer in issue with the proper opamp.
A week isn't too bad.. I've noticed shipping times have greatly increased due to the virus
The Art-7 uses no metal cores in the coil.. it's just air. But the details that you can get from a lighter cantilever is stunning. The ART-1000 is the same except that ithe coils sit directly over the stylus where there is a lot more movement giving a higher gain without metal cores
A week isn't too bad.. I've noticed shipping times have greatly increased due to the virus
The Art-7 uses no metal cores in the coil.. it's just air. But the details that you can get from a lighter cantilever is stunning. The ART-1000 is the same except that ithe coils sit directly over the stylus where there is a lot more movement giving a higher gain without metal cores
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In the end I decided to go with the completed premium kit. Lucky that I ordered on Friday as I got the last case and Kevin was not sure when he would receive more.
Moving Coil Phono Step-Up Kits – K & K Audio
Will have the 1.8K & 15K load resistors to start with. Will be most interested in how the SUT compares. My last SUT was the Lundahl 9226 and it was excellent.
Moving Coil Phono Step-Up Kits – K & K Audio
Will have the 1.8K & 15K load resistors to start with. Will be most interested in how the SUT compares. My last SUT was the Lundahl 9226 and it was excellent.
Davis, did you get the kit from K&K or just the trannies?
Hmavv, maybe you should get/build a tube phono stage. It will likely measure much noisier, but there's a good chance it will sound better.
Steve
Hi Steve,
My last two phono stages were tube phono stages and they were some of my favorite, the last was a PS1 mkII (open box special),and they were great with MM cartridges. But when I got my ART-7, It was just too demanding, The amount of gain that it needed made the the noise pretty distracting (especially with headphones) The trade off for better sound quality was overshadowed by the noise.
The TU-8500 is a nice middle ground between Solid state and tube with its solid state phono section, and a tube output flat amp. Plus the noise is completely gone now
. I now understand why a lot of high end manufacturers go the solid state/tube route with their gear. That new Sunvalley phono stage looks interesting though!
I can't vouch for the SunValley phono stage but I've heard the SV line stage. Much better than I expected for a vintage design and offering very contemporary (good) performance. Very tunable with tube selection.
Listening to vinyl over headphones is a very tough test of system noise. I don't know if there's a tube phono stage out there, other than the mega-buck, that would satisfy you.
I had a EAR 834P for repair last year (uses 12AX7s) and I ran all of my old 12AX7s through it and sorted for noise and microphonics.
A buddy has a Tubecad Tetra configured with 6DJ8s as the input tube, borrowed it and sorted all my old 6DJ8 family of tubes. My Tetra is setup for 12AT7 inputs, sorted my 12AT7s.
Steve
Listening to vinyl over headphones is a very tough test of system noise. I don't know if there's a tube phono stage out there, other than the mega-buck, that would satisfy you.
I had a EAR 834P for repair last year (uses 12AX7s) and I ran all of my old 12AX7s through it and sorted for noise and microphonics.
A buddy has a Tubecad Tetra configured with 6DJ8s as the input tube, borrowed it and sorted all my old 6DJ8 family of tubes. My Tetra is setup for 12AT7 inputs, sorted my 12AT7s.
Steve
I found my Cary PH-302 with its Lundahl SUTs on the MC input to be very quiet. That's one reason I've ordered the K&K SUT Lundahl SUT. Will listen to it in front of my TU-8500 and also in front of my Cary SLP-98P to see which is the better choice. Fingers crossed for all-tube, but the TU-8500 punches well above its weight ($$) class, so no disappointment, either way.
And, I agree........... the SV-EQ1616D looks very enticing. If the TU-8500 stays I can definitely see one in my future.
GP,
Try the various grounding possibilities with the K&K. I found with my gear the lowest hum level was with the 'table ground lead connected to K&K ground terminal. Another wire connecting the K&K gnd to the phono stage gnd lug. The internal jumpers were then set to Input=gnd and Output=lift. As always, YMMV
Steve
Try the various grounding possibilities with the K&K. I found with my gear the lowest hum level was with the 'table ground lead connected to K&K ground terminal. Another wire connecting the K&K gnd to the phono stage gnd lug. The internal jumpers were then set to Input=gnd and Output=lift. As always, YMMV
Steve
Headphones can be very revealing about your system. It took a few months after I built my TU-8500 to finally find a good opamp solution for both speaker and headphone use. Opamp that sounded great with headphones sometimes sounded lifeless with speaker use. It's perfect now.
That's dedication! do you have a pretty large tube collection?