I am confused right now. Can anybody help me?
I have a progressive scan dvd player.
I need a component video to vga converter. Best quality at lowest cost.
Here are my options
1. buy progressive component video to vga converter.. What will be my screen resoluti n? Is it 640x480 progrssive? this is the product http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=221&products_id=4233&
2. buy a component video to vga converter( input is interlace?). Will my resolution be 800x600 progressive? this is by using this converter http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=221&products_id=3235&
Now which is better? Any other product that u can recommend under $100?
I have a progressive scan dvd player.
I need a component video to vga converter. Best quality at lowest cost.
Here are my options
1. buy progressive component video to vga converter.. What will be my screen resoluti n? Is it 640x480 progrssive? this is the product http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=221&products_id=4233&
2. buy a component video to vga converter( input is interlace?). Will my resolution be 800x600 progressive? this is by using this converter http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=221&products_id=3235&
Now which is better? Any other product that u can recommend under $100?
so far these are what I had learned about progressive scan dvd players. kindly comment if you feel i am incorrect.
1. I f you are currently using an interlaced CRT TV the horizontal lines alternating will be evident at close viewing. total horizontal line shown at a time is 240 lines. HDTV can show 480p meaning 480 horizontal lines at any time.
2. LCD monitor/CRT PC monitor/ plasma/projector has deinterlacer. Meaning any interlaced signal fed to them, they will convers to progressive scanning.
for LCD monitor using s-video or composite or component input, LCD will convert the interlaced signal coming from interlaced scan dvd player to progressive. But the horizontal lines is only 240 lines progressive
For lcd monitor using vga input, the signal fed to it is should alway be progressive.
Finally if i will buy a progressive component video to vga adapter, LCD will show a 480 horizontal line progressive which is what we call 480p. if a dvd players component video is interlaced, then the lcd will show 240 horizontal lines only.
My LCD has svga resolution so i need look at a converter that will up convert the dvd 480p scan to 600 horizontal lines. is this possible?
Please make comments if understand these things correctly.
BTW, with regards to chrome reflector which has bubbling. it is still performing great and much better than stainless steel reflector. Try a chrome guys and maybe discussed with the plater how they can eliminate bubbling of chrome plate at high temp. It is still very shiny, no discoloration and the mirror finish is not affected at all. I estimated that i had increase brightness from 20-30% or more. Just a guess.
Will show pics later on. I stil don't have the camera.
1. I f you are currently using an interlaced CRT TV the horizontal lines alternating will be evident at close viewing. total horizontal line shown at a time is 240 lines. HDTV can show 480p meaning 480 horizontal lines at any time.
2. LCD monitor/CRT PC monitor/ plasma/projector has deinterlacer. Meaning any interlaced signal fed to them, they will convers to progressive scanning.
for LCD monitor using s-video or composite or component input, LCD will convert the interlaced signal coming from interlaced scan dvd player to progressive. But the horizontal lines is only 240 lines progressive
For lcd monitor using vga input, the signal fed to it is should alway be progressive.
Finally if i will buy a progressive component video to vga adapter, LCD will show a 480 horizontal line progressive which is what we call 480p. if a dvd players component video is interlaced, then the lcd will show 240 horizontal lines only.
My LCD has svga resolution so i need look at a converter that will up convert the dvd 480p scan to 600 horizontal lines. is this possible?
Please make comments if understand these things correctly.
BTW, with regards to chrome reflector which has bubbling. it is still performing great and much better than stainless steel reflector. Try a chrome guys and maybe discussed with the plater how they can eliminate bubbling of chrome plate at high temp. It is still very shiny, no discoloration and the mirror finish is not affected at all. I estimated that i had increase brightness from 20-30% or more. Just a guess.
Will show pics later on. I stil don't have the camera.
Kindly comment.
Since i have a progressive scan dvd player, all I need is just a simple component to vga adapter ( no electronics needed ) just like this one
http://store.infocus.com/escalate/s...P-VESA-ADPT&clist=&ret=&pls5catname=&tab=desc
Since i have a progressive scan dvd player, all I need is just a simple component to vga adapter ( no electronics needed ) just like this one
http://store.infocus.com/escalate/s...P-VESA-ADPT&clist=&ret=&pls5catname=&tab=desc
Hertz,
I would recommend driving your projector with a dedicated HTPC or using your existing computer if at all possible. You can then use the DVD player in another room with a small TV.
Otherwise you will need a component to VGA convertor that can scale to 800 x 480. This is an unusual pixel grid so I doubt if any of the cheap convertors would do it. Standard VGA resolution is 600 X 480 and if you input that signal in the Lilliput you will loose some of your resolution unless the lilliput does this automatically. My understanding is that the Lilliput comes with software drivers for windows to do the 800 X 480 pixel grid. But perhaps I am mistaken.
I have decided to build a dedicated HTPC so that I don't have to continually change VGA cable connections with my existing monitor and computer. In the long run it is more flexible as we can then upgrade to higher resolution LCD's as they become available. And they will.
Also, the simple connector will probably not work since the component output on the DVD was not designed to drive a LCD panel but a CRT. With LCD each pixel is addressed. With CRT the lines are scanned so I don't believe the simple adapter will work. Unless your DVD has the circuitry to address and scale images. This is unlikely. This is why the PC is the best most flexible and cheapest alternative.
However, I can understand why some would want the simplicity of a standalone DVD player for the projector. In this case you will have to pony up the money for a dedicated scaler but I think there are now some decent ones for under $500.
Hezz
I would recommend driving your projector with a dedicated HTPC or using your existing computer if at all possible. You can then use the DVD player in another room with a small TV.
Otherwise you will need a component to VGA convertor that can scale to 800 x 480. This is an unusual pixel grid so I doubt if any of the cheap convertors would do it. Standard VGA resolution is 600 X 480 and if you input that signal in the Lilliput you will loose some of your resolution unless the lilliput does this automatically. My understanding is that the Lilliput comes with software drivers for windows to do the 800 X 480 pixel grid. But perhaps I am mistaken.
I have decided to build a dedicated HTPC so that I don't have to continually change VGA cable connections with my existing monitor and computer. In the long run it is more flexible as we can then upgrade to higher resolution LCD's as they become available. And they will.
Also, the simple connector will probably not work since the component output on the DVD was not designed to drive a LCD panel but a CRT. With LCD each pixel is addressed. With CRT the lines are scanned so I don't believe the simple adapter will work. Unless your DVD has the circuitry to address and scale images. This is unlikely. This is why the PC is the best most flexible and cheapest alternative.
However, I can understand why some would want the simplicity of a standalone DVD player for the projector. In this case you will have to pony up the money for a dedicated scaler but I think there are now some decent ones for under $500.
Hezz
Thanks Hezz for that valuable information
Now i would like to share with regarding what i read from the net.
1. The progressive scan of a dvd player is better than other upscaler available. the reason given is in dvd player, conversion is done in digital domain. And a true progrssive source material will even bypass this conversion. (from 480i to 480p)
2. The upscaler is never better than progrssive scan dvd player (480p). Upscaling an analog input signal will result to terrible or fairly nice result. Because you are going to upscale a degraded signal coming from analog output of dvd player.it will never look as good and sharp as progressive output of a dvd player. Meaning even if you upscale the 480i analog output of a dvd player to svga, the progressive 480p vga will still be much better.
3. To convert progressive component video to vga , a simple circuit transcoder is needed not an upscaler.
4. Pc is good but i prefer a dvd player for video and just play games in smaller monitor
Kindly comment if some things are misunderstood. I had just read it earlier.
Now i would like to share with regarding what i read from the net.
1. The progressive scan of a dvd player is better than other upscaler available. the reason given is in dvd player, conversion is done in digital domain. And a true progrssive source material will even bypass this conversion. (from 480i to 480p)
2. The upscaler is never better than progrssive scan dvd player (480p). Upscaling an analog input signal will result to terrible or fairly nice result. Because you are going to upscale a degraded signal coming from analog output of dvd player.it will never look as good and sharp as progressive output of a dvd player. Meaning even if you upscale the 480i analog output of a dvd player to svga, the progressive 480p vga will still be much better.
3. To convert progressive component video to vga , a simple circuit transcoder is needed not an upscaler.
4. Pc is good but i prefer a dvd player for video and just play games in smaller monitor
Kindly comment if some things are misunderstood. I had just read it earlier.
HTPC
I think with HTPC the dvd-rom output is taken as the progressive output. Other advantages include many many possibilities to adjust color ratios, color temperature, refresh rate, etc, etc.
I am just beginning to play with the connection between HTPC and a Sharp QA-1650, but already I see better picture quality than the S-video output from the DVD play. Also it is easier to get good color on the projection screen.
Congratulations on your build, by the way, it is very nice. Also wanted to mention that from what I could understand in an optics text, aluminum is a better reflector than chrome.
Michael
I think with HTPC the dvd-rom output is taken as the progressive output. Other advantages include many many possibilities to adjust color ratios, color temperature, refresh rate, etc, etc.
I am just beginning to play with the connection between HTPC and a Sharp QA-1650, but already I see better picture quality than the S-video output from the DVD play. Also it is easier to get good color on the projection screen.
Congratulations on your build, by the way, it is very nice. Also wanted to mention that from what I could understand in an optics text, aluminum is a better reflector than chrome.
Michael
hertz, it depends what hardware you own and if your using a software dvd player or not on the comp, and what functions it has. In all computers its all digital right the way through until output, and if you have a digital panel then you can get a digital signal from the comp's vid card if it has a dvi port.
If you or the guy who made the article had a search around on the net, you can get scan converters for comps too, it comes all at a price, and these days things for comps are cheap, it depends on what quality you desire vs price.
In my eyes comps are far better then stand alone dvd players, just look at what you can do whith comp as in settings and versatility compared to a dvd player. Hell you can get programs that have been mentioned in here before for the comp that does scan converting. If i wer to price my comp with its options as stand alone equiptment, it would be worth thousands, and this is one reason why people make a all in one unit rather then just buy the seperate receivers, dvd players ect, not to forget the upgradablity at a cheap price.
Depending on the hardware, its not hard at all to acheive a better quality with a comp compared to a stand alone unit, just look at sound cards, the majority are far clearer and have a better freq and sig to noise ratio then most mid ranged recievers at a fraction of the price.
Trev
If you or the guy who made the article had a search around on the net, you can get scan converters for comps too, it comes all at a price, and these days things for comps are cheap, it depends on what quality you desire vs price.
In my eyes comps are far better then stand alone dvd players, just look at what you can do whith comp as in settings and versatility compared to a dvd player. Hell you can get programs that have been mentioned in here before for the comp that does scan converting. If i wer to price my comp with its options as stand alone equiptment, it would be worth thousands, and this is one reason why people make a all in one unit rather then just buy the seperate receivers, dvd players ect, not to forget the upgradablity at a cheap price.
Depending on the hardware, its not hard at all to acheive a better quality with a comp compared to a stand alone unit, just look at sound cards, the majority are far clearer and have a better freq and sig to noise ratio then most mid ranged recievers at a fraction of the price.
Trev
It comes out as digital if you set it up right, the sound too, in win xp it should be digital on default, only the vid card will change it to anolog or dvi. Interlacing and all the other gizmo is done with the software player. Only one that ive ever owned had that in a harware ver, and that had a seperate card that attached to the vid card, quite old i might add, about 2000 they came out, not needed no more because the dvd can spin fast enough to projuce enough data for the cpu or what have u decode it.
Trev
Hertz,
It all comes down to your priorities. If you want the best picture quality and flexibility for the lowest price than build a dedicated HTPC. It does not have to be in an expensive case. Mine is a $15 used desktop case painted black. Nor does it have to have the most expensive hardware to work well. For about $400 you can build a nice basic HTPC.
If simplicity and ease of use for novice users is the highest priority then try to find a component to VGA convertor that will work. However realize that you will not be getting the same quality with this as with the HTPC because the HTPC does all of the scaling in the digital domain as Ace has said. Also the HTPC uses the progressive scan information on the DVD by default.
If you get a scan convertor you will be converting from the analog component outputs on your DVD player into a VGA signal which will be 600 x 480 and the Lilliput will not be able to utilize it's full native resolution so you will have degradation on two fronts.
One with the analog to digital conversion and the other with a loss of resolution because of not using the native resolution of the LCD.
I don't believe that any of the inexpensive convertors will output 800 x 480. And most of the expensive ones won't either. The scalers that have that flexibility and many higher resolutions are quite expensive in the $3000 - $4000 price range.
If you study what the high end home theaters are doing you will find that they are using HTPC's because that give them the best picture quality and flexibilty.
Hezz
It all comes down to your priorities. If you want the best picture quality and flexibility for the lowest price than build a dedicated HTPC. It does not have to be in an expensive case. Mine is a $15 used desktop case painted black. Nor does it have to have the most expensive hardware to work well. For about $400 you can build a nice basic HTPC.
If simplicity and ease of use for novice users is the highest priority then try to find a component to VGA convertor that will work. However realize that you will not be getting the same quality with this as with the HTPC because the HTPC does all of the scaling in the digital domain as Ace has said. Also the HTPC uses the progressive scan information on the DVD by default.
If you get a scan convertor you will be converting from the analog component outputs on your DVD player into a VGA signal which will be 600 x 480 and the Lilliput will not be able to utilize it's full native resolution so you will have degradation on two fronts.
One with the analog to digital conversion and the other with a loss of resolution because of not using the native resolution of the LCD.
I don't believe that any of the inexpensive convertors will output 800 x 480. And most of the expensive ones won't either. The scalers that have that flexibility and many higher resolutions are quite expensive in the $3000 - $4000 price range.
If you study what the high end home theaters are doing you will find that they are using HTPC's because that give them the best picture quality and flexibilty.
Hezz
Another benefit of the HTPC is that you can make a HDTV reciever for a reasonalbe cost that can recieve both satelite and air reception.
ATI is coming out with a reasonabliy prices HDTV card this summer that will cost around $200 or less I think. Check out this preview. Using your computer you can scale the digital image in the digital domain to fit your projector for the higest possible quality.
http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=331&catid=2
Hezz
ATI is coming out with a reasonabliy prices HDTV card this summer that will cost around $200 or less I think. Check out this preview. Using your computer you can scale the digital image in the digital domain to fit your projector for the higest possible quality.
http://www.hothardware.com/viewarticle.cfm?articleid=331&catid=2
Hezz
Hi HertzBlaster
This type of cables works for devices that can receive component signal over the standar VGA connector. It will not work if your monitor cant decode component signal on the VGA input. It was used on some devices ables to receive both (VGA and Component) on the same VGA In connector.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but in memory, VGA uses 4 o 5 signals R , G , B and Sync (Horizontal and Vertical Sync could be mixed in composite Sync), Sometimes Sync signals come with the Green signal.
But Component has only 3 signals Y, Pb, Pr (for progressive) or Y,Cb,Cr (for interlaced) and they stands for Y=Luminance and sync, Pb or Cb (Green minus blue) and Pr or Cr (Green minus red) or something like that, so in the counterpart the 3 color signals can be decoded when Pb and PB are combined with the luminance (Y signal or total). So you can not feeed a VGA device with component signal because the signals are combined in an special way (substracted). You can do it only if the device can decode the component signal coming on the standar VGA connector.
Hope it makes sense and sorry about my bad english.
Bernardo.
This type of cables works for devices that can receive component signal over the standar VGA connector. It will not work if your monitor cant decode component signal on the VGA input. It was used on some devices ables to receive both (VGA and Component) on the same VGA In connector.
Please correct me if I'm wrong but in memory, VGA uses 4 o 5 signals R , G , B and Sync (Horizontal and Vertical Sync could be mixed in composite Sync), Sometimes Sync signals come with the Green signal.
But Component has only 3 signals Y, Pb, Pr (for progressive) or Y,Cb,Cr (for interlaced) and they stands for Y=Luminance and sync, Pb or Cb (Green minus blue) and Pr or Cr (Green minus red) or something like that, so in the counterpart the 3 color signals can be decoded when Pb and PB are combined with the luminance (Y signal or total). So you can not feeed a VGA device with component signal because the signals are combined in an special way (substracted). You can do it only if the device can decode the component signal coming on the standar VGA connector.
Hope it makes sense and sorry about my bad english.
Bernardo.
Thank you guys for all your response. I feel I am now a learned man in just a few days.
!. you are all right when comparing computer quality vs dvd quality. Computer quality is much better than dvd quality because I can use the LCD native resolution which is 800X600 vs 640x 480. All upscaling done in digital domain.
2. DVD palyer has the advantage of ease of use and thats all I know of. instant play. the biggest convenience is the remote control.
4. BTW, i have the best of both world.
5.When u buy new generation dvd player, a lot times it has progressive scan. Please don't miss dvd player with vga output so there will be no need for a transcoder.
6.Progressive component to vga transcoder costs between $50 to less than $200. Circuit components are fairly standard. Add on feaures dictates the high price.
6. My PC is located a liitle away from my PJ so i need to diy a vga cable which is made of cat 5 cable. it could be about 6-8 meters away without loss in quality. Is this right? has anybody tried cat5 as vga cable? They say cat5 can be as long as 50 feet.
7. Vga to component adapter will only work on infocus x1 and other models. ( no electronics involve)
I have athlon xp2400+ system. My vga card is GF4 4200ti. I am thinking of upgrading to vga card with a tuner. i am now searching for a video card. Any recommendation? Will add-on tuner card be cheaper? Has anybody compared the performance of ATI vs nvidia card in terms of video quality?
Thanks a lot. Please feel free to comment on the above summary.
!. you are all right when comparing computer quality vs dvd quality. Computer quality is much better than dvd quality because I can use the LCD native resolution which is 800X600 vs 640x 480. All upscaling done in digital domain.
2. DVD palyer has the advantage of ease of use and thats all I know of. instant play. the biggest convenience is the remote control.
4. BTW, i have the best of both world.
5.When u buy new generation dvd player, a lot times it has progressive scan. Please don't miss dvd player with vga output so there will be no need for a transcoder.
6.Progressive component to vga transcoder costs between $50 to less than $200. Circuit components are fairly standard. Add on feaures dictates the high price.
6. My PC is located a liitle away from my PJ so i need to diy a vga cable which is made of cat 5 cable. it could be about 6-8 meters away without loss in quality. Is this right? has anybody tried cat5 as vga cable? They say cat5 can be as long as 50 feet.
7. Vga to component adapter will only work on infocus x1 and other models. ( no electronics involve)
I have athlon xp2400+ system. My vga card is GF4 4200ti. I am thinking of upgrading to vga card with a tuner. i am now searching for a video card. Any recommendation? Will add-on tuner card be cheaper? Has anybody compared the performance of ATI vs nvidia card in terms of video quality?
Thanks a lot. Please feel free to comment on the above summary.
Hertz,
you can make a very good VGA cable with CAT5 cable but there are some internet sites that carry pre made high quality VGA cables. For a long high quality cable you will need to do more than just add connectors.
I would do a search because you can probably buy a high quality shielded VGA cable cheaper than you can make one for.
Do a search because a few weeks ago there was a thread on this and there are some good links and information.
Here is a link to company that sells high quality long VGA cables:
http://www.mycableshop.com/sku/CVGAM25.htm
Hezz
you can make a very good VGA cable with CAT5 cable but there are some internet sites that carry pre made high quality VGA cables. For a long high quality cable you will need to do more than just add connectors.
I would do a search because you can probably buy a high quality shielded VGA cable cheaper than you can make one for.
Do a search because a few weeks ago there was a thread on this and there are some good links and information.
Here is a link to company that sells high quality long VGA cables:
http://www.mycableshop.com/sku/CVGAM25.htm
Hezz
Uh, dont forget the ferrit core. Or youll get major interfearence. About $2.00 at radio shack or electronics shop. Ya know the round thingy molded on end of vga cord at vga card output and mon input. One for each end is used. It does help alot. Specially on cords that arent shielded well and when using high refresh rates.. A REALLY well high end vga cord needs no core. But I havent seen one like that for about 2 years. THe local mom and pop pc shop had one for really long vga runs to pj in the lab. Ha, $10 per foot. Eh, I passed used ferrit rewired my vga mon was simple and works 110%!
Like they said if under 10' or so run use ferrit and not high end cable as you will see no benefit. Course if you wanted top output to the lcd youd use the dvi output.
Like they said if under 10' or so run use ferrit and not high end cable as you will see no benefit. Course if you wanted top output to the lcd youd use the dvi output.Hi !
If you will use Cat5 cable for a long run VGA extension you will want to use Shielded CAT5 cable.
One of the mayor troubles on long run video cables is total Impedance on cable and connectors. Cat5 cable is 100 Ohms (impedance) and Video devices and circuitry works with 50 Ohms cables. Such diference in Impedance values will put a lot of undesired effects on the signal (ringing, and especially Ghosts, the higher the frecuency of the signal the higher those artifacts appears). But some people where able to make medium distances run VGA cables with CAT5 shielded cable. You must assure to sold the Shield to the ground pin on both ends and sometimes sold all the grounds together. VGA connector have 1 pin per color signal and 1 pin per color ground. Sometimes you need to sold in the connector all the grounds together.
By soldering the shield to the ground it changes the Impedance on the cable to something more close to the 50 Ohms needed.
With my component to VGA adapter I've decide to run 3 separate 50 Ohms cables to carry the component signal from the DVD player to the adapter on the projector side and to use the short Liliput VGA cable to carry the VGA signal because for the moment I cant get shielded CAT5 locally.
I have the VGA connectors ready waiting for STP availabilty in order to run only one cable and put the adapter near the DVD player.
Hope it helps.
Bernardo.
If you will use Cat5 cable for a long run VGA extension you will want to use Shielded CAT5 cable.
One of the mayor troubles on long run video cables is total Impedance on cable and connectors. Cat5 cable is 100 Ohms (impedance) and Video devices and circuitry works with 50 Ohms cables. Such diference in Impedance values will put a lot of undesired effects on the signal (ringing, and especially Ghosts, the higher the frecuency of the signal the higher those artifacts appears). But some people where able to make medium distances run VGA cables with CAT5 shielded cable. You must assure to sold the Shield to the ground pin on both ends and sometimes sold all the grounds together. VGA connector have 1 pin per color signal and 1 pin per color ground. Sometimes you need to sold in the connector all the grounds together.
By soldering the shield to the ground it changes the Impedance on the cable to something more close to the 50 Ohms needed.
With my component to VGA adapter I've decide to run 3 separate 50 Ohms cables to carry the component signal from the DVD player to the adapter on the projector side and to use the short Liliput VGA cable to carry the VGA signal because for the moment I cant get shielded CAT5 locally.
I have the VGA connectors ready waiting for STP availabilty in order to run only one cable and put the adapter near the DVD player.
Hope it helps.
Bernardo.
Bfourcade,
Did you mean 75 ohms? As far as I know, we need video cable with 75 ohms impedance for analog video signal.
I tried using cat5 cable for s-video and I got crappy result. I already have vga female and male socket. Its going to be a chalenge to solder cat5 cable to this vga socket huh? BTW thanks for ur suggestions.
Hertz
Did you mean 75 ohms? As far as I know, we need video cable with 75 ohms impedance for analog video signal.
I tried using cat5 cable for s-video and I got crappy result. I already have vga female and male socket. Its going to be a chalenge to solder cat5 cable to this vga socket huh? BTW thanks for ur suggestions.
Hertz
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