Greetings! I thought it might be valuable to have, in one place, the newest information about which tubes work well in the the Tram 2.
I must have the "new" TJ45 tubes, as they are totally unusuable due to microphony. I am currently using NOS RCA45's--one is quiet enough, the other is occasionally static-y. When it is being quiet, the Tram 2 is totally awesome. However, I find the intermittent static quite frustrating.
I would prefer NOT to buy 6 NOS 45's in order to try and find 2 that are quiet enough. So question 1: are there any new production 45's that are quiet enough to use? And that sound good?
Question 2: EML tubes. I understand that there are some sort of problems with using EML tubes due to the large size of the EML tube pins. I don't like to roll tubes--I like to put in tubes I like and leave them. If I do that with EML's (assuming they are quiet enough) will they fit into the tube sockets (I don't want to damage either the pins or the tube sockets)? If they stretch the sockets and the sockets then won't fit smaller pin tubes, that's OK with me, as long as the sockets will continue to fit the EML tubes tightly.
Question 3: 2A3 tubes. My Tram 2 was assembled by DIYHifiSupply. While I could adjust the 2A3 bias, I would prefer not to have to check or adjust it. If I decide to try 2A3's in the Tram 2, do I need to check the voltages? Or can I just put the 2A3's in and forget about it?
Question 4: Are there new production 2A3's (EML, Valve Art, Sovtek) that are known to be consistently quiet enough and sound good?
Thanks. I really love the Tram 2 when the 45's are quiet--one could EASILY spend $8-10K and not get better sound. But the noise is a frustrating problem. I hope the answers to the above questions will help to reassure prospective buyers, and current owners, that tube noise is a simple, manageable issue that is not a significant problem!
Dave
I must have the "new" TJ45 tubes, as they are totally unusuable due to microphony. I am currently using NOS RCA45's--one is quiet enough, the other is occasionally static-y. When it is being quiet, the Tram 2 is totally awesome. However, I find the intermittent static quite frustrating.
I would prefer NOT to buy 6 NOS 45's in order to try and find 2 that are quiet enough. So question 1: are there any new production 45's that are quiet enough to use? And that sound good?
Question 2: EML tubes. I understand that there are some sort of problems with using EML tubes due to the large size of the EML tube pins. I don't like to roll tubes--I like to put in tubes I like and leave them. If I do that with EML's (assuming they are quiet enough) will they fit into the tube sockets (I don't want to damage either the pins or the tube sockets)? If they stretch the sockets and the sockets then won't fit smaller pin tubes, that's OK with me, as long as the sockets will continue to fit the EML tubes tightly.
Question 3: 2A3 tubes. My Tram 2 was assembled by DIYHifiSupply. While I could adjust the 2A3 bias, I would prefer not to have to check or adjust it. If I decide to try 2A3's in the Tram 2, do I need to check the voltages? Or can I just put the 2A3's in and forget about it?
Question 4: Are there new production 2A3's (EML, Valve Art, Sovtek) that are known to be consistently quiet enough and sound good?
Thanks. I really love the Tram 2 when the 45's are quiet--one could EASILY spend $8-10K and not get better sound. But the noise is a frustrating problem. I hope the answers to the above questions will help to reassure prospective buyers, and current owners, that tube noise is a simple, manageable issue that is not a significant problem!
Dave
Hi,
Microphony is normally low in the TJ 45's, it is hum pickup that causes problems. Which output on the preamp are you using?
Of what we had a chance to try so far, difficult.
The EML we tried where quiet and sounded good, other than issues of pricing and the oversized pins they work well.
Normally Plug/Play works, but it is worthwhile checking the voltages and if necessary adjusting them.
Valve Art and EML are tested, both good. Older TJ 2A3 as well, not sure about current.
Ciao T
Microphony is normally low in the TJ 45's, it is hum pickup that causes problems. Which output on the preamp are you using?
Of what we had a chance to try so far, difficult.
The EML we tried where quiet and sounded good, other than issues of pricing and the oversized pins they work well.
Normally Plug/Play works, but it is worthwhile checking the voltages and if necessary adjusting them.
Valve Art and EML are tested, both good. Older TJ 2A3 as well, not sure about current.
Ciao T
Thorsten said:
"Microphony is normally low in the TJ 45's, it is hum pickup that causes problems. Which output on the preamp are you using?"
I have tried all 3. I am using the -3dB output now with the LD91 Mono Max and Bastanis Prometheus II open baffle speakers. This results in having the volume control at about 10-11 o'clock (I listen pretty loud).
It's also definitely microphony--if I speak at the tubes, my voice comes out of the speaker.
Thanks Thorsten. I think I'll try the EML45's. I think this preamp deserves the best!
"Microphony is normally low in the TJ 45's, it is hum pickup that causes problems. Which output on the preamp are you using?"
I have tried all 3. I am using the -3dB output now with the LD91 Mono Max and Bastanis Prometheus II open baffle speakers. This results in having the volume control at about 10-11 o'clock (I listen pretty loud).
It's also definitely microphony--if I speak at the tubes, my voice comes out of the speaker.
Thanks Thorsten. I think I'll try the EML45's. I think this preamp deserves the best!
Excellent question. I have dampers on all of the tubes. On the 45's, I've tried various types of Herbies dampers, including teflon and metal-ring types. I've also tried various combinations of dampers and teflon tape. This seems to work fine on the NOS 45's, but nothing helped the TJ45's. In addition to the microphony, the inner metal structure periodically (every few minutes) literally rings like a gong. It's worse right after I turn on the preamp and I guess the tube warms up and the metal expands.
Dave
Hi,
That is probably way too much gain for the system. I would suggest to try the lower output, I would suggest maximum listening levels should be closer to 3-o'Clock. 10 to 11 o'Clock does not really leave much volume control range.
Yes, all DHT's do that to a degree. It is even audible in Power Amplifier Output Stages, where the gain is typically 30dB lower than for a linestage.
You can try some ways of damping.
Ciao T
That is probably way too much gain for the system. I would suggest to try the lower output, I would suggest maximum listening levels should be closer to 3-o'Clock. 10 to 11 o'Clock does not really leave much volume control range.
Yes, all DHT's do that to a degree. It is even audible in Power Amplifier Output Stages, where the gain is typically 30dB lower than for a linestage.
You can try some ways of damping.
Ciao T
Hello everyone:
For my sins I own TWO Trams. I am running one with 45s and the other with 2A3s. I agree 100% with dth31's findings - TJ 45s are highly microphonic and more or less useless. NOS NU 45s I got from Brent Jessee are not microphonic at all but do splutter a bit at turn-on and then settle down after a few minutes. I believe these were in fact made by RCA and then rebadged for various other companies. I am currently running EMLs, which are slightly microphonic, but nothing to write home about. Beautifully made and have a wonderful tone as well.
On to the other valves: I'm using a Chelmer brand UK 5U4G rectifier in one Tram and a straight-sided Australian Radiotron. (Hint: if you see NOS Australian valves, buy them - they were made in Mullard factories for GE or Philips and are the equal of any UK, US or Euro valve - and usually a lot cheaper too!)
6AS7s: Sylvania in one Tram and GE in the other.
For my sins I own TWO Trams. I am running one with 45s and the other with 2A3s. I agree 100% with dth31's findings - TJ 45s are highly microphonic and more or less useless. NOS NU 45s I got from Brent Jessee are not microphonic at all but do splutter a bit at turn-on and then settle down after a few minutes. I believe these were in fact made by RCA and then rebadged for various other companies. I am currently running EMLs, which are slightly microphonic, but nothing to write home about. Beautifully made and have a wonderful tone as well.
On to the other valves: I'm using a Chelmer brand UK 5U4G rectifier in one Tram and a straight-sided Australian Radiotron. (Hint: if you see NOS Australian valves, buy them - they were made in Mullard factories for GE or Philips and are the equal of any UK, US or Euro valve - and usually a lot cheaper too!)
6AS7s: Sylvania in one Tram and GE in the other.
Hi,
Please do share evaluations of EML45s in the TRAM2. I also have the EML45s but hesitate trying them because of the large tube pins.
I have so far tried in the TRAM2: (a) National Union 2A3; (b) TJ Mesh 45 Globe old version; (c) Tung Sol 45 ST. I can switch between the tubes w/o adjusting anything.
In terms of sonic quality I'd rate NU 2A3 best, TS 45 close second, and TJ Mesh 45 third place. The 2A3 sounds more powerful and fuller, with better sub-bass.
I have also rolled the rectifier a bit. Tried WE274B which caused hums. Next tried RCA5U4 ST which is quite and much better than the Russian equivalent. Then I tried VT244 which sounds similar to RCA5U4 with perhaps slightly thinner sound. So far I like RCA 5U4G best.
I also tried RCA 6AS7G in place of the Russian equivalent. The RCA tubes result in smoother and yet clearer highs. The Russian tubes do appear to give stronger bass in comparison.
Jack
Please do share evaluations of EML45s in the TRAM2. I also have the EML45s but hesitate trying them because of the large tube pins.
I have so far tried in the TRAM2: (a) National Union 2A3; (b) TJ Mesh 45 Globe old version; (c) Tung Sol 45 ST. I can switch between the tubes w/o adjusting anything.
In terms of sonic quality I'd rate NU 2A3 best, TS 45 close second, and TJ Mesh 45 third place. The 2A3 sounds more powerful and fuller, with better sub-bass.
I have also rolled the rectifier a bit. Tried WE274B which caused hums. Next tried RCA5U4 ST which is quite and much better than the Russian equivalent. Then I tried VT244 which sounds similar to RCA5U4 with perhaps slightly thinner sound. So far I like RCA 5U4G best.
I also tried RCA 6AS7G in place of the Russian equivalent. The RCA tubes result in smoother and yet clearer highs. The Russian tubes do appear to give stronger bass in comparison.
Jack
Hi Jack:
my friend Decky measured the pins on my EML 45s as I had the same concerns as you. Decky measured the small pins as 0.2mm larger than standard and the large pins 2 microns smaller. In Decky's opinion this should not cause problems in changing valves at a later date.
Decky has also measured the internal temperature of the Tram using 45s versus 2A3s. Even with additional heatsinks and vents in the chassis, the 2A3s ran a good 10 degrees Celsisus hotter than the 45s Something to think about in the longer term.
I have some TJ 2A3s that I will be evaluating this weekend. Unless they are noticeably better than my 45s, however, I will stick to 45s for heat control reasons.
my friend Decky measured the pins on my EML 45s as I had the same concerns as you. Decky measured the small pins as 0.2mm larger than standard and the large pins 2 microns smaller. In Decky's opinion this should not cause problems in changing valves at a later date.
Decky has also measured the internal temperature of the Tram using 45s versus 2A3s. Even with additional heatsinks and vents in the chassis, the 2A3s ran a good 10 degrees Celsisus hotter than the 45s Something to think about in the longer term.
I have some TJ 2A3s that I will be evaluating this weekend. Unless they are noticeably better than my 45s, however, I will stick to 45s for heat control reasons.
Hi bronal,
Thanks for the information. I'll check my EML45 tube pins for their exact dimensions.
Running the 2A3 the chassis can get pretty hot but the preamp is stable. I've no experience with the TJ 2A3 but their 45 is not as good as the NOS variants in this pre-amp application.
And I think my TRAM2 could still be undergoing run-in so consider my eval preliminary. Do let us know how it goes with the TJ2A3.
Jack
Thanks for the information. I'll check my EML45 tube pins for their exact dimensions.
Running the 2A3 the chassis can get pretty hot but the preamp is stable. I've no experience with the TJ 2A3 but their 45 is not as good as the NOS variants in this pre-amp application.
And I think my TRAM2 could still be undergoing run-in so consider my eval preliminary. Do let us know how it goes with the TJ2A3.
Jack
A lil off topic: is the Sophia Electric 45
http://www.sophiaelectric.com/pages/se/45.htm a re-badged TJ?
http://www.sophiaelectric.com/pages/se/45.htm a re-badged TJ?
Hi,
They are all "rebadges". The company made them under the label "Full Music" but could not sell under this label, so every retailer uses their own badge.
Like with any tube factory, it matters how well you select. Production is quite variable.
Ciao T
They are all "rebadges". The company made them under the label "Full Music" but could not sell under this label, so every retailer uses their own badge.
Like with any tube factory, it matters how well you select. Production is quite variable.
Ciao T
Hi,
Not from, sorry. I only know what DIYhifisupply does under the TJ label with tubes assembled in the same factory, with the same parts etc. as the ones labelled Sofia.
Ciao T
Not from, sorry. I only know what DIYhifisupply does under the TJ label with tubes assembled in the same factory, with the same parts etc. as the ones labelled Sofia.
Ciao T
EML45's arrived last night. They fit into the teflon tube sockets easily with absolutely no extra pressure needed at all. Been "burning in" since then. Sound seems to be pretty stable. Will report back more when I get home tonight.
What I CAN say now, unequivocally, is that even with the CD player going into the -3 dB inputs (sorry, but I prefer those to the other inputs--seem to result in greater dynamics and clarity, YMMV), these tubes are QUIET, even with the volume turned up LOUD! YAY!!!
Dave
What I CAN say now, unequivocally, is that even with the CD player going into the -3 dB inputs (sorry, but I prefer those to the other inputs--seem to result in greater dynamics and clarity, YMMV), these tubes are QUIET, even with the volume turned up LOUD! YAY!!!
Dave
Probably depends upon where you live/buy. Check out the emission labs website for more details.
Emission Labs - Introduction
In the US, Tubes USA sells the EML45's for $440/pair.
Emission Labs Tubes
George Lenz (at tubesusa) responded VERY quickly to emails, mailed the tubes fast, packed them amazingly securely, and was a pleasure to deal with. Highly recommended.
Dave
Emission Labs - Introduction
In the US, Tubes USA sells the EML45's for $440/pair.
Emission Labs Tubes
George Lenz (at tubesusa) responded VERY quickly to emails, mailed the tubes fast, packed them amazingly securely, and was a pleasure to deal with. Highly recommended.
Dave
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