Any experience with the Mood-Lab (under construction) dac? I'm considering buying it. Price is $199 for the basic version "concept" with 1 digital input and $399 for "dice", which has more digital inputs includes Toslink optical, coaxial and USB input for computer.
I really like the minimal concept (no input buffer, no reclocking) while the lay-out allows it to experiment with components.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I really like the minimal concept (no input buffer, no reclocking) while the lay-out allows it to experiment with components.
Sure. I look at it from the point of view of a diy'er. I don't see fancy casework. And looking at the parts I arrive at a price of say 40-90 euro's.
I have an idea how it sounds but not exactly ofcourse, since I have not heard that particular one. I have heard 3 types of TDA 1543 nos with CS8412 receivers and I liked them all.
2 of them use 8*1543's paralled and the other was with a single TDA1543.
But for a commercial product it is not that expensive ofcourse. There is the pcb design costs. Dealer markup...etc. etc.
Bas Horneman said:
Just a bit.
reMC said:
Well, the layout is not optimal -- the PS is poorly done, the IV section should be closer to the tda1543, I have doubts about a carbon resistor for the PLL, the DAC chip is not decoupled well, if at all, the spdif input scheme is not so good, and socketing those chips is not a great idea here -- it makes sense in prototyping, but there is no reason to remove them. Also, the output impedence will be very high, so you will need to run it into an amp with an input impedence of at least 25K, if not 50K.
This doesn't mean it will sound horrible, but the tda1543 is very sensitive to the quality of the PS, and you can find better commercial versions with essentially the same schematic that will sound better. Moreover, you could build this better on stripboard for about $40-50.
-d
reMC said:
The 1543 likes a high quality small value film cap right on the power pin, and an electrolytic in the 220uF-470uF range nearby.
reMC said:Again, what's wrong? Are you suggesting a input buffer? It's just that i'm glad this design doesn't have it
Or an input transformer -- it does a world of good.
reMC said:
http://www.gr-research.com/components/lite_dacs.htm
This is cheaper and corrects some of the issues. There are still some good modifications that can be done to this for cheap and it is missing the input stuff, but it is really cheap.
Well, you can buy Scott Nixon's kit and get the $50 worth of parts for $100. http://www.scott-nixon.com/dac.htm
I have a dice dac and love it. It is my first non-oversampling dac, so I cannot compare it to other options.
However, I paid £150 on ebay for mine (+£25 p&p). There are some great usb audio drivers out there that can make this a superb partner for a pc source (ala wavelength but cheaper (no claims made of ultimate quality comparison). This is a very interesting angle for me.
Also, when you open the dac up there are some very handy unused soldering points that alow for potential upgrades. Right in front of the output coupling caps there is a 1.5mm gap with holes on the tracks allowing dead easy bypassing of the output caps.
Obviously this gives 4.5vdc on each channel - not ideal.... Especially since i have a LM3875 chipamp kit rev3 with no input coupling caps. Connecting the two like this would probably kill both my amp and speakers.
So after much fannying about (i was going to write experimentation but that seemed overly formal for my general hands on approach) I now have a 4uF russion pio cap between the potentiometer and the chipamp input (i run a passive pre inside the gainclone - 1 input only so no source selector).
I set up a test board and tried generic polythene 2.2uf, audyn 3.3uf, ero mkt1813 1.5uf, 0.5uf russian pio, 1uf russion pio and the winning 4uf. I previously tried and disliked the pio's but of course this was in series with the dice dac's internal coupling caps.
So I have tda1543 > 20k alps blue > 4uf russian pio > LM3875 (with HF filtering that comes with the dice dac in parallel with it's output). This absolutely destroys the sound from the stock dice dac, but as I said this is my first non-os project...
Can't wait to combine this with a non microsoft usb audio driver! (new PC due soon)
However, I paid £150 on ebay for mine (+£25 p&p). There are some great usb audio drivers out there that can make this a superb partner for a pc source (ala wavelength but cheaper (no claims made of ultimate quality comparison). This is a very interesting angle for me.
Also, when you open the dac up there are some very handy unused soldering points that alow for potential upgrades. Right in front of the output coupling caps there is a 1.5mm gap with holes on the tracks allowing dead easy bypassing of the output caps.
Obviously this gives 4.5vdc on each channel - not ideal.... Especially since i have a LM3875 chipamp kit rev3 with no input coupling caps. Connecting the two like this would probably kill both my amp and speakers.
So after much fannying about (i was going to write experimentation but that seemed overly formal for my general hands on approach) I now have a 4uF russion pio cap between the potentiometer and the chipamp input (i run a passive pre inside the gainclone - 1 input only so no source selector).
I set up a test board and tried generic polythene 2.2uf, audyn 3.3uf, ero mkt1813 1.5uf, 0.5uf russian pio, 1uf russion pio and the winning 4uf. I previously tried and disliked the pio's but of course this was in series with the dice dac's internal coupling caps.
So I have tda1543 > 20k alps blue > 4uf russian pio > LM3875 (with HF filtering that comes with the dice dac in parallel with it's output). This absolutely destroys the sound from the stock dice dac, but as I said this is my first non-os project...
Can't wait to combine this with a non microsoft usb audio driver! (new PC due soon)
Peter Daniel said:
Thanks but I don't need it anymore. Earlier this week, I visited Audio-Cube and they offered me a heavily modified version of the 47Labs dac to try home. The lay-out is still 47labs but all the components except the TDA1543 and the CS8412 are different and chosen/made by Cees Pel. I'm testing it a for few week/maybe months... If I like it in my set-up, it stays
Btw, it's a lot more expensive then the mood-labs or any other kit but I already know the dac and I think I'm going to be really happy with it. Mood-labs was only meant as a cheap solution as I did not think I'd receive the modified 47labs so fast...Hi guys,
Here's a pic of the current version of this DAC. Any comments on this design? It certainly looks more professional, but I'm wondering anyone is able to point out significant improvements. I know the "product features" section on the web page lists improvements, but you guys are the experts
I'm kinda interested in it. I've been thinking of buying a Monica2 for the past year, but the Mood Labs Concept is appealing because of the (much improved) enclosure.
http://www.mood-lab.com/concept.htm
I haven't found any comparisions with Monica2. If the Mood Labs DAC appears to be a solid design, I might go for it, unless I hear a resounding "NO!".
Best regards,
Andrew.
Here's a pic of the current version of this DAC. Any comments on this design? It certainly looks more professional, but I'm wondering anyone is able to point out significant improvements. I know the "product features" section on the web page lists improvements, but you guys are the experts
I'm kinda interested in it. I've been thinking of buying a Monica2 for the past year, but the Mood Labs Concept is appealing because of the (much improved) enclosure.
http://www.mood-lab.com/concept.htm
I haven't found any comparisions with Monica2. If the Mood Labs DAC appears to be a solid design, I might go for it, unless I hear a resounding "NO!".
Best regards,
Andrew.
Attachments
I have both the monica2 and dice dacs, and have used both with 41hz amps and gainclones.
I have modified both, but have listened to both before and after modification.
The monica2 has the better midrange - one of the clearest mids I have ever heard. The top and bottom are a little attenuated, but not enough to annoy you. Also, the dynamics are less impressive than the mood-lab dice.
The dice has more punch and bass weight, and while having a very good mid can't compete with the monica2 in this area.
I am sure most of these differences come from the different dac chips used: 1543 for the dice and 1545 for the monica2. The 1543 is a budget chip which has a particularly high output, making it ideal for passive I/V.
Please note that I have only used these dacs with passive preamp sections, and with an active pre or buffer the 1545 based monica2 would probably gain more punch and bass weight.
If you use a passive preamp, it is worth playing with the impedance of the volume control section. I have settled on a 39K shunted 100K log pot for both, but have ordered a 1meg PEC pot and 39K tantalum to try in fake law configuration. Both the nos-dacs sounded nicer with AB carbon comp shunt resistors in my current setup.
If you haven't tried a nos-dac yet, either will blow your socks off!
I
I have modified both, but have listened to both before and after modification.
The monica2 has the better midrange - one of the clearest mids I have ever heard. The top and bottom are a little attenuated, but not enough to annoy you. Also, the dynamics are less impressive than the mood-lab dice.
The dice has more punch and bass weight, and while having a very good mid can't compete with the monica2 in this area.
I am sure most of these differences come from the different dac chips used: 1543 for the dice and 1545 for the monica2. The 1543 is a budget chip which has a particularly high output, making it ideal for passive I/V.
Please note that I have only used these dacs with passive preamp sections, and with an active pre or buffer the 1545 based monica2 would probably gain more punch and bass weight.
If you use a passive preamp, it is worth playing with the impedance of the volume control section. I have settled on a 39K shunted 100K log pot for both, but have ordered a 1meg PEC pot and 39K tantalum to try in fake law configuration. Both the nos-dacs sounded nicer with AB carbon comp shunt resistors in my current setup.
If you haven't tried a nos-dac yet, either will blow your socks off!
I
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