Hi Arthur,
the HDAM mod is very simple once you've worked out what bits to pull.
I can't help much, cos the 6000 is a bit different to the 63, but your suggestions seem very sensible.
Only points i can think of : some think silmics mushy sounding, FCs or rubycon ZA or ZL may be better. Also, check out other opinions on chokes; some advocate there use everywhere but this may not be best. I'm no expert though, so do plenty of searching first.
I think there's been a thread or two on the 6000 here.
ATB
the HDAM mod is very simple once you've worked out what bits to pull.
I can't help much, cos the 6000 is a bit different to the 63, but your suggestions seem very sensible.
Only points i can think of : some think silmics mushy sounding, FCs or rubycon ZA or ZL may be better. Also, check out other opinions on chokes; some advocate there use everywhere but this may not be best. I'm no expert though, so do plenty of searching first.
I think there's been a thread or two on the 6000 here.
ATB
Hi Arthur,
Modding a CD6000 is definately worthwhile. You can follow the same strategy used with the CD63/67. Start with the PSU/opamps/output caps/clock. If you want to use the LM6172, make sure you do the local PSU and decoupling first with this opamp.
I would advise to use inductors that are more low-ohmic, 14R is a bit high. As a rule of thumb I use inductors with a DC resistance that is about half the original resistor value.
As float recommended: the Silmics are not all that. A ZA/ZL/ZLH cap has much lower ESR!
As for the HDAM: a transformer is an option, but I don't know if that will sound better then HDAM. You'll need a decent (=expensive) one. You can save that one for last
Regards,
Ray.
Modding a CD6000 is definately worthwhile. You can follow the same strategy used with the CD63/67. Start with the PSU/opamps/output caps/clock. If you want to use the LM6172, make sure you do the local PSU and decoupling first with this opamp.
I would advise to use inductors that are more low-ohmic, 14R is a bit high. As a rule of thumb I use inductors with a DC resistance that is about half the original resistor value.
As float recommended: the Silmics are not all that. A ZA/ZL/ZLH cap has much lower ESR!
As for the HDAM: a transformer is an option, but I don't know if that will sound better then HDAM. You'll need a decent (=expensive) one. You can save that one for last
Regards,
Ray.
6h5c said:Been tinkering with my CD67 PCB today, also put some 0805 SMD caps on the DAC there. I found some really small 100n caps (0603) in the drawer, they fit perfectly between two pins, so I added one on the digital supply-pin too.
Did any of you find CD's yet that are now unlistenable? I have some CD's that I used to like, but since the players are upgraded they started to annoy me. The sound is unpleasant if you listen to it for a longer period of time. Must be the recording that's bad.
I also don't like the sound of Copy Controlled CD's. I have two versions of a Norah Jones CD, one is an earlier release and the second a newer one that is now copy controlled. I like the first one better.
I did a test with the latest Coldplay CD that's also copy controlled. I ripped it in secure mode with EAC and I find the copy sounds better!
Ray.
Hi Ray,
For a while I've come across CDs which I have an increasingly reduced opinion of, and others which I now realise were quite good and in fact had a lot of detail and music on them, whereas before those ones were not so impressive.
Generally the trend is to be able to hear more noise and distortion on any disc, but also more intricate musical detailing, which offsets hearing the extra distortion, noise, hiss and other problems. It's easier than ever, on my hi-fi, to hear just how great a piece of music is.
I too have had trouble with copy-protection. The worst is the Best of the Red Hot Chilli Peppers, which is unlistenable. There are VERY FEW CDs that are unlistenable to me. Another two terrible terrible CDs are Think Tank by Blur and Songs About Jane by Maroon 5. The effects of copy protection can be heard by anyone, and in some cases even a low-fi system can reveal them - the Chilli Peppers one has crackling noises over the music on Californication, for example. All of these CDs have extremely muddy and one-note bass, which kills the life of the music entirely.
If I could be bothered to I'd write to the record companies demanding a clean version to listen to. Apparently they may provide this on request. Anyone care to try? Why don't we all warn each other about more bad sounding copy-protected discs? It seems we have three/four so far, but I'm not sure how objectionable the Norah Jones one is. I have Come Away With Me, Feels Like Home and Peter Malick Group featurning Norah Jones - New York City. This last one was recorded first and the sound is fantastic - much better than her two 'solo' albums'. I wonder if any of mine are protected...
Ray - your work is impressively neat!! I'd love to be able to do those kinds of mods one day. I have to settle for clumsy people mods for now
Hi Simon,
I listened to 'Come Away With Me'. My brother happens to have this one too, but copy protected. So we were able to do a comparison.
My bro used his DVD player (DVD763SA) to play CD's for a while, but most of the protected discs indeed produce crackling or don't play at all! Now he put his old Technics player back. In the future I will make him a nice modded CD67.
Thanks for your compliments! I always try to keep my mods neat and tidy. I pulled this pic off the Acoustica website, and that's NOT how I like it.
If you have a steady hand and a fine soldering tip you should be able to do it. I use thin low-flux solder, and I clean up afterwards with alcohol and a cotton-tip. That looks very nice compared to leaving all the residue. But I have 'a few' years of experience, so it's easy for me to say...
Ray.
I listened to 'Come Away With Me'. My brother happens to have this one too, but copy protected. So we were able to do a comparison.
My bro used his DVD player (DVD763SA) to play CD's for a while, but most of the protected discs indeed produce crackling or don't play at all! Now he put his old Technics player back. In the future I will make him a nice modded CD67
.Thanks for your compliments! I always try to keep my mods neat and tidy. I pulled this pic off the Acoustica website, and that's NOT how I like it.
If you have a steady hand and a fine soldering tip you should be able to do it. I use thin low-flux solder, and I clean up afterwards with alcohol and a cotton-tip. That looks very nice compared to leaving all the residue. But I have 'a few' years of experience, so it's easy for me to say...
Ray.
Attachments
I suspect I have the 'Come Away With Me' without copy-protection, but I'll have a listen now that things are more upgraded and see what happens. They do tend to hint on the label that there's copy protection.
I actually like that Acoustica pic - it looks like some sort of post-apocalyptic space craft module or something! Heavily modded!
I actually like that Acoustica pic - it looks like some sort of post-apocalyptic space craft module or something! Heavily modded!
Hi,
I bookmarked this thread a week ago and, blow me, there's about 10 more pages to read!!!!!!
Re : oscillating cdm - mine was about 2khz.
I posted a thread about this before Xmas with little response!! and here it is in another. I cured the problem by adding a 10p coin to the top of the clamp (later a larger magnet). Blue tack worked but is hard to achieve an even layer, leading to vibration. I wish the Marantz recall was better publicised.
Re : Power supply
The main problem with the standard psu is that it is diabolical !!
This is why the 'standard' solution of throwing in a handful of Black Gates and extra regulators works.
The real solution is to completely separate the analog and digital supplies and here I am talking about separate transformers or at least windings. Marantz recognised this - look at the diagrams for the '43, '53, and various '63s. Finally,in the KI, they provided a half-decent trannie but still did not go the whole hog! One of the modding articles doe suggest using an external trannie and psu's.
Her's my solution - 2 'small' trannies mounted on the rear panel supplying analog and digital 5v supplies - the connection to the existing trannie is removed. split regulators, of course.
The standard trannie still supplies display (a source of RF noise), servos (the only fused part of the psu - large current pulses) and the +- supply to the audio.
Also change the connector and / or mains cable ( I'm not sure about the use of CAT5 for mains!!!)
Re : Audio Mods
The output of the dac is differential. The use of LM6171/2 has been suggested in other articles and is reckoned to be better than the '627. The reason is simple, the topography of this chip is fully symmetrical - therefore it is ideal for the purpose of converting the diff' output to single ended. At the same time, the associated resistors should be changed to 0.1% - I used Holco from an Ebay supplier. Caps should be upgraded at the same time. If using an adapter, the 6171 should be the first with a 627 as #2.
I have not (yet) tried bypassing the HDAM - I always wondered about adding more stages - less is more.
Some articles recommend biasing the op-amps into class A. Has anyone tried this? It's next on my list!
Re : other mods
Cut and fit a piece of 12mm mdf to the underside to reinforce the chassis - use plenty of No Nails.
Dampening material everywhere to the chassis and cdm - I buy deadsheet from my local carshop for £3.50 a big piece!
Dampen chips and use copper foil, earthed, on all chips especially the cpu. ( I have not done the cables as per photo above - yet!)
BTW, Marantz use a coppercoated chassis to reduce eddy currents not to improve grounding (Also see the very expensive DP version) - where do these currents come from ???? .
And now - on a lighter note - Has anyone tried the CD, currently on sale on EBAY, which plays a varying signal through your system, to 'DEMAGNETISE' your entire signal path, including the loudspeakers! ( I thought 'speakers needed to be magnetic)
An excellent thread so far, constructive and polite - not like some where the attitude of some contributers (mainly the so-called GURUs) have a 'I know better than you, why should I help' attitude - keep it up!
Andy
I bookmarked this thread a week ago and, blow me, there's about 10 more pages to read!!!!!!
Re : oscillating cdm - mine was about 2khz.
I posted a thread about this before Xmas with little response!! and here it is in another. I cured the problem by adding a 10p coin to the top of the clamp (later a larger magnet). Blue tack worked but is hard to achieve an even layer, leading to vibration. I wish the Marantz recall was better publicised.
Re : Power supply
The main problem with the standard psu is that it is diabolical !!
This is why the 'standard' solution of throwing in a handful of Black Gates and extra regulators works.
The real solution is to completely separate the analog and digital supplies and here I am talking about separate transformers or at least windings. Marantz recognised this - look at the diagrams for the '43, '53, and various '63s. Finally,in the KI, they provided a half-decent trannie but still did not go the whole hog! One of the modding articles doe suggest using an external trannie and psu's.
Her's my solution - 2 'small' trannies mounted on the rear panel supplying analog and digital 5v supplies - the connection to the existing trannie is removed. split regulators, of course.
The standard trannie still supplies display (a source of RF noise), servos (the only fused part of the psu - large current pulses) and the +- supply to the audio.
Also change the connector and / or mains cable ( I'm not sure about the use of CAT5 for mains!!!)
Re : Audio Mods
The output of the dac is differential. The use of LM6171/2 has been suggested in other articles and is reckoned to be better than the '627. The reason is simple, the topography of this chip is fully symmetrical - therefore it is ideal for the purpose of converting the diff' output to single ended. At the same time, the associated resistors should be changed to 0.1% - I used Holco from an Ebay supplier. Caps should be upgraded at the same time. If using an adapter, the 6171 should be the first with a 627 as #2.
I have not (yet) tried bypassing the HDAM - I always wondered about adding more stages - less is more.
Some articles recommend biasing the op-amps into class A. Has anyone tried this? It's next on my list!
Re : other mods
Cut and fit a piece of 12mm mdf to the underside to reinforce the chassis - use plenty of No Nails.
Dampening material everywhere to the chassis and cdm - I buy deadsheet from my local carshop for £3.50 a big piece!
Dampen chips and use copper foil, earthed, on all chips especially the cpu. ( I have not done the cables as per photo above - yet!)
BTW, Marantz use a coppercoated chassis to reduce eddy currents not to improve grounding (Also see the very expensive DP version) - where do these currents come from ???? .
And now - on a lighter note - Has anyone tried the CD, currently on sale on EBAY, which plays a varying signal through your system, to 'DEMAGNETISE' your entire signal path, including the loudspeakers! ( I thought 'speakers needed to be magnetic)
An excellent thread so far, constructive and polite - not like some where the attitude of some contributers (mainly the so-called GURUs) have a 'I know better than you, why should I help' attitude - keep it up!
Andy
Hello Andy,
Nice to hear you like the thread
It's been quite active the last week indeed! There has been bypassing of several HDAM stages and the results are very good. You should give it a go, I think you'll like the result.
Thanks for your tips. I never tried the LM6171 after the DAC, only the dual version, but I didn't like that. Your suggestion makes sense, so I think i'm going to try it again with a single one. Never hurts to investigate!
I'm thinking of a better PSU that replaces the standard xformer for some time now. My initial idea was to saw-off the piece of the PCB with the xformer and the mains switch, and make a new larger PCB that fit's right in. There is a lot of room behind the CDM. It will use the KI's connector-footprints to connect and will hold some new tranny's and the mains switch & filter. But it's a bit more complicated due to the extra display voltages.
As for your resonance problem: maybe the spindle motor's shaft is running dry. You can try lubricating it where it enters the motor.
Regards,
Ray.
Nice to hear you like the thread
It's been quite active the last week indeed! There has been bypassing of several HDAM stages and the results are very good. You should give it a go, I think you'll like the result.
Thanks for your tips. I never tried the LM6171 after the DAC, only the dual version, but I didn't like that. Your suggestion makes sense, so I think i'm going to try it again with a single one. Never hurts to investigate!
I'm thinking of a better PSU that replaces the standard xformer for some time now. My initial idea was to saw-off the piece of the PCB with the xformer and the mains switch, and make a new larger PCB that fit's right in. There is a lot of room behind the CDM. It will use the KI's connector-footprints to connect and will hold some new tranny's and the mains switch & filter. But it's a bit more complicated due to the extra display voltages.
As for your resonance problem: maybe the spindle motor's shaft is running dry. You can try lubricating it where it enters the motor.
Regards,
Ray.
poynton said:
Would that also apply to the AD817? It seems to be a single AD826, but i'm not sure. I remember I have that one somewhere.
The symmetrical layout of these opamps could be a good thing. I found that low input offset voltage and input bias current spec's also have a lot to do with the sound. All the opamps that I think sound good (personal opinion of course) seem to have low Vio and Iib in common.
Ray.
Hi.
The display section was the reason I kept the Marantz transformer - sourcing a 'better' custom one would be expensive!
Carving up the board may be a bit extreme - what about removing all the redundant jumpers and tracks, mains switch and wiring direct to the transformer?? Then use the board to mount new psu components?
As for the oscillation - I tried 2 cdm's with the same result - larger weight stopped the noise and mistracking / errors which were happening! The 'real' problem is for sure an oscillation in the driver circuits, whether tracking servo, focus I have yet to check - maybe a little mod to the circuit may resolve it! The extra weight is enough for now. ( This btw is in a Siemens RA400 player, similar to a Grundig Fine Arts - anyone with a circuit?) I did try lubing the spindle with no effect.
I used the '826 for 2 reasons - 1/ the symmetry, 2/ I bought a tube of 25 off EBAY for a tenner!!!
Andy
The display section was the reason I kept the Marantz transformer - sourcing a 'better' custom one would be expensive!
Carving up the board may be a bit extreme - what about removing all the redundant jumpers and tracks, mains switch and wiring direct to the transformer?? Then use the board to mount new psu components?
As for the oscillation - I tried 2 cdm's with the same result - larger weight stopped the noise and mistracking / errors which were happening! The 'real' problem is for sure an oscillation in the driver circuits, whether tracking servo, focus I have yet to check - maybe a little mod to the circuit may resolve it! The extra weight is enough for now. ( This btw is in a Siemens RA400 player, similar to a Grundig Fine Arts - anyone with a circuit?) I did try lubing the spindle with no effect.
I used the '826 for 2 reasons - 1/ the symmetry, 2/ I bought a tube of 25 off EBAY for a tenner!!!
Andy
I am currently building a TX pcb. I am using one Nuvotem encapsulated torroidal TX with 2x 18V output. HexFRED diodes and caps.
These will supply my REG pcb for the rails that do the clock and digital supply.
I am keeping the analogue reg on the marantz TX as it no longer supplies anything (well just the audiocom regs next to the opamps)
I will post pics of tx pcb later. Just testing at the mo.
These will supply my REG pcb for the rails that do the clock and digital supply.
I am keeping the analogue reg on the marantz TX as it no longer supplies anything (well just the audiocom regs next to the opamps)
I will post pics of tx pcb later. Just testing at the mo.
Well here is the pic of the TX pcb. Not fitted yet has I am changing the TX from an 18V to 12V one. This is because it is giving out 24V ac, so im getting 33.6V DC which is too high for my reg pcb. lol
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hi.
Looks nice.
Are you 'pre-regulating'?
Where are you getting the +-10v supply?
On another note - the output sockets should also be changed for higher quality ones - the standard do not have a gold-plated inner.
Also what about removing the digital outputs? They're pretty well redundant if you are going to spend money improving the internal dac. The track would have to be cut and grounded to reduce the antenna effect.
Andy
Looks nice.
Are you 'pre-regulating'?
Where are you getting the +-10v supply?
On another note - the output sockets should also be changed for higher quality ones - the standard do not have a gold-plated inner.
Also what about removing the digital outputs? They're pretty well redundant if you are going to spend money improving the internal dac. The track would have to be cut and grounded to reduce the antenna effect.
Andy
I do have some nice bolt on chassis mount RCA cons
I have thought about the digital out. And may well do it.
I am going to change every component in the HF circuit to better tol stuff too.
0.1% resistors and some silver mica caps.
This pcb is supplying around 18-20V dc to the reg pcb I have already made.
I have thought about the digital out. And may well do it.
I am going to change every component in the HF circuit to better tol stuff too.
0.1% resistors and some silver mica caps.
This pcb is supplying around 18-20V dc to the reg pcb I have already made.
poynton said:
Hi Poynton,
Welcome to this thread, great post btw, with some great ideas.
You know CAT5 is good for mains
It is covered by an additional plastic sheath btw, so it's not too dangerous. I would not recommend this to any beginner modder tho, as it can't be the safest
But it does sound good!
poynton said:
rowemeister said:I do have some nice bolt on chassis mount RCA cons
Hi guys,
Just wondering - how are these wired up in relation to disassembly of the unit?
I take the back panel off to remove and work on the pcb, so hard wiring sockets on would possibly make it harder.
Can you explain how you did it? Do you remove the back panel along with the pcb?
Cheers
Hi guys,
I used a steel braid shielded cable for mains. It has five conductors, which I used like the TNT 'star' plus ground. It has a transparent sleeve, which looks very cool. The Farnell number is 385-3536 in case anyone's interested.
In my CD57/67 I disabled the digital outputs by disconnecting the +5V supply and signal. It's very easy if you remove U201 and R114 at the decoder's side.
Cool photo, rowe!
Regards,
Ray.
I used a steel braid shielded cable for mains. It has five conductors, which I used like the TNT 'star' plus ground. It has a transparent sleeve, which looks very cool. The Farnell number is 385-3536 in case anyone's interested.
In my CD57/67 I disabled the digital outputs by disconnecting the +5V supply and signal. It's very easy if you remove U201 and R114 at the decoder's side.
Cool photo, rowe!
Regards,
Ray.
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