New to FLAC files, need advice

Anecdote: many of the older guys I know pretend that they upgrade to more modern sources but when they do they like to make those choices and setups that prove old stuff is best. So, in effect, no modern source or format can be any good and any attempt is just an attempt. When asked they respond that LPs are the way to go, speakers built in 1960 are the best and amplifiers should have ultra rare classic parts :D

And this is relevant how exactly? Trying to tar me with the same brush perhaps? Sorry, as usual you're way off base. I licenced HDCD from Pacific Microsonics in 1995 (licence #68) because I saw the writing on the wall for standard CDs. At that stage I had already dumped vinyl, which was always a fiddly format prone to damage by midhandling, dust and poor turntables. I had already thrown my handmade turntable in the trash, complete with Decca Mk VI eliptical cartridge (which now I regret because they're fetching around $2k-$3k from the exact old fogies you describe.)
 
Forgot to say that your smart phone with the right software qualifies as a HD music player. Some phones, mostly LG, can even play DSD.
I use my old Windows phone with Groove Music to play 24 bit / 128k FLAC and WAV.
All you need is a big Micro SD card, depending on how much the phone can accommodate.

That's interesting, but since I have no use for a mobile phone - I never leave home these days - it's all a bit academic.
 
So, I just spent a short time researching how to set up a network between my PC and the Oppo UDP-203 and did exactly that. I hadn't done it earlier because the Oppo can't pick up my wi-fi router, which is 20 metres away in another room, but since I now have a repeater in the Living Room I connected to that. Strangely enough I was still getting a weird phasing effect on high resolution sources, so I dug in further to find the real problem.

Apparently the previous owner of this BD player had set the audio processing to "short delay" and it wasn't really obvious until the source material was of very high quality! So that mystery is solved, and the discs I burned now play back fine. Go figure.

Sugar Man

Apologies for the crappy iPad microphone in the above video.
 
Good, I was going to ask you to reset the settings to factory defaults. I have 205 and have none of the problems you experienced. I use a USB HDD plugged at the back, which plays all movies and all music files I can throw at 205 (hires flacks included) - no issue of any kind. The sound is very good. I tried using 205 as a DAC (via USB) and wired streaming (copper ethernet), but the actual USB HDD plugged at the back of 205 sounds by far the best.
 
In the end it turned out to be something entirely different to my discovery above. I was still getting an echo occasionally and it was driving me crazy so I had a good sit down and a think about what material it was happening on. And I was only getting the echo when I was using DVDs that had been burned as data discs. But to play those I had to use the remote on the UDP-203 to step through and play the tracks, which means the TV had to be running. All very bloody inconvenient.

Anyhow, it turned out the speakers in the TV were also playing the damned audio! I hit the TV remote Mute button and it was perfect. :)

Gotta realize that, despite knowing a lot about electronics and audio, most of the hardware I'm using is new and has features that I'm still getting up to speed on. I didn't listen to audio at all for maybe 25 years before setting this system up, and even HDMI isn't something I've used much.

At jean-paul's suggestion I also gave streaming from the PC a good shot. It's convenient for file leeches I suppose, of which these days I'm sure there are many. Still, for the majority of my listening I'd prefer not to have to run a computer and a TV as well as my hi-fi system, it's just a distraction from the music and probably adds noise to the electrical lines. My PC fan is dead silent so that isn't an issue.

A NAS is still a reasonable option, or as you suggest a HDD plugged into the Oppo, but right now my need is for a good set of reference discs of different formats to test amplifiers, speakers and decoders in the process of being designed, which I now seem to have achieved. I don't listen to audio all day, and in fact most of the time I prefer silence so that I can concentrate on what I'm doing. Other's may have different daily needs, of course.

I'll be keeping the network connection though, it's great for watching videos.
 
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Hi I would never suggest cheapskate/mediocre/"free" solutions so using a pc for audio let alone streaming audio from a pc "because it's already there" can not be my advice. Personal computers are indeed distracting when used for audio.

A: I suggested using the LAN connection of the Oppo to skip useless waste of time and money burning DVD's. As you state the need for the TV to be switched on to see what you are doing is a bloody nuisance. This drawback comes with the Oppo...maybe it can be app controlled too, that is up to you to check. The Oppo for audio is cheapest solution as "it's already there" which may appeal to you. Personally I don't want neither a pc nor a TV switched on for music.

B: the second suggestion was the better alternative, a native audio player like the excellent Elac DS-S101-G only operated with the pc/Ipad/smart phone. Or another user friendly streamer. One with storage is easier to handle but most depend on the network and NAS. Wired of course, wireless is for smart phones.

The audio player will play any available audio files either from local storage (USB stick, USB harddisk/SSD) or from the NAS or from legal (not leeches, thank you for the association) internet audio service operators like Tidal etc. and is only controlled by any device that has a screen. A player with local storage means the NAS is a second place where the files are stored and it somewhat makes the risk of loss smaller. Now expect at least a post by someone telling this is not a backup.

* make sure to regularly update firmware of devices when they're network connected for optimal functionality and security/bug fixes.

You keep mentioning disks so I think you are still somewhat uncomfortable by the idea that files need the be on optical media but in reality they can be played via the network straight from the NAS.
 
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The problem comes about when the files exceed the size of a standard CD.
Why are the files larger than a standard CD? It's it run time, bit depth, sample rate? You mentioned those. Those aren't a problem for devices that play files instead of discs.

I've never experienced the channels out of time effect you are talking about, but there is always some new problem on the horizon. :) Basically I don't know why you are trying to burn to optical disc instead of play the files from HDD or similar. Wave and FLAC both support the sample rates you want, and also multiple channels no problem. There are plenty of free format convertors out there, as mentioned Audacity is good, but there are others. Something that will do batch conversion might be easiest/fastest for you.
 
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OP is not familiar with current technology but that is OK. So we help a little. That specific Oppo can be controlled with an app. With the iPad that OP already has. Bloody convenient if it works stable (which is not standard with many devices). It is free so that is great.

OPPO UDP-203 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray Disc Player

The app for an Ipad:

OPPO UDP-20X MediaControl on the App Store

So there is no need to turn on the TV neither when playing back FLAC DVD disks nor with playing back files from the NAS/USB. The only way to get used to this is by stowing away the IR remote in a place you don't find it back easy. After a week you will not even look for it provided the Oppo app runs fine. This way of controlling devices is standard in 2021 with most audio players/streamers and although they're all equal some are more equal than others :)

You're welcome, Haiqu! Glad to help you out.
 
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The app for an Ipad:

OPPO UDP-20X MediaControl on the App Store

So there is no need to turn on the TV neither when playing back FLAC DVD disks nor with playing back files from the NAS/USB. The only way to get used to this is by stowing away the IR remote in a place you don't find it back easy. After a week you will not even look for it provided the Oppo app runs fine. This way of controlling devices is standard in 2021 with most audio players/streamers and although they're all equal some are more equal than others :)

You're welcome, Haiqu! Glad to help you out.

Thanks JP, that's a very useful suggestion and I do happen to have an iPad lying around so may give it a shot eventually.

My immediate need for reference material for testing will still have to rely on original discs though, since copying to HDD loses too much subtle information for my liking.

See An Experiment in Digital Audio
 
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copying to HDD loses too much subtle information for my liking.

That is simply not true. If things are done the correct way and played back on the right devices that is. Also you don't have enough experience with various dedicated devices to conclude that music from HDD/SSD is worse than optical disk. That your specific setup and methods may be the exception not the rule.
 
haiqu, I see from this post and others on the forum that you are "skilling up" in the area of audio file management and playback. I commend your knowledge-gathering efforts in this regard.
But please, be very, very careful with your "experiments" and what you pass off as results from such - because the scope of your test conditions has been quite narrow, and in some cases completely flawed.

I can also save them (FLAC's) to a DVD as data files and use the TV as a menu to play them (ex Oppo UDP-203) but the playback is mighty weird. Specifically, the two channels are out of time with each other
Oops, it turns out there was no file playback issue - just the TV's sound turned up as a secondary audio output.

if you don't believe that digital information is changed in the process of copying it ...
Yeah I don't believe it. Neither do the IT consultants I work with.

... I challenge you to make a copy of an HDCD disc and see if it lights the HDCD indicator on your player.
Oops, you later beat your own challenge. So the initial experiment, or assertion, was flawed.

I used Checkfield's "A View From The Edge" which is an excellent recording. I found the results of ripping that to HDD and replaying across the network to be very similar, maybe 97-98% the same as the original. There was a little more space around individual instruments with the CD but it was a hard call to say they were different, and it would take a very well-trained ear to pick it in a double-blind test.
OK, that's a fair and credible observation. Interesting to note that optical disc playback was only slightly better than ex HDD. But be aware that your result is limited to your test conditions. You cannot know, and should not claim, that this result applies universally. I can think of several technical reasons why the Oppo may do a better job of playing back digital information from its optical drive, than from an audio file on a hard drive or network drive - particularly in terms of how the digital data is buffered ...
but many/most of us who use audio file playback don't use an Oppo, and in many cases these devices are tested and optimised for audio file playback. Examples:
- Raspberry Pi's, with various reclocking methods and DAC's, such as from iancanada.
- ALLO DigiOne, and BOSS2 player.
- Twisted Pear Cronus.
 
Regarding the Sting Sacred Love SACD which you ripped/extracted ("converted" is incorrect) to .dff files -
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/376906-experiment-digital-audio.html#post6783014
if these .dff files sound only "5/10" as good as the SACD disc playback, then there's clearly a significant configuration problem, or the Oppo has a fault reading .dff files, or the test method was flawed.
Think about it - the (DSD) digital information which is read from the SACD disc is identical to the information in the .dff files.
 
Regarding the Sting Sacred Love SACD which you ripped/extracted ("converted" is incorrect) to .dff files -
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-source/376906-experiment-digital-audio.html#post6783014
if these .dff files sound only "5/10" as good as the SACD disc playback, then there's clearly a significant configuration problem, or the Oppo has a fault reading .dff files, or the test method was flawed.
Think about it - the (DSD) digital information which is read from the SACD disc is identical to the information in the .dff files.

Yeah, OK I've obviously made a few errors due to unfamiliarity with the (new to me) formats and admitted them. However, the above statement is pure nonsense. There is a major stupidity amongst audiophiles that digital information is immutable. I challenge that opinion.

When you're dealing with SACD or DVD-A it's 24-bit data. Those last few bits represent very low levels of information, and the slightest clock jitter or power supply ripple can affect it. There is no SACD equivalent of Exact Audio Copy so the results of ripping them are digitally unverified.

If this were not true, any transport played via the digital output through a reference DAC - and thus eliminating the analog stages commonly believed to be the sole cause of "character" - would sound identical. Why, therefore, do we pay a premium for the better ones?

Think it through, dude.

I may be out-of-date but I have almost 40 years as a computer hardware engineer behind me, and was an advisor on digital matters to Allen Wright BEFORE he started building mods to SACD players. I'm not asking for respect for old achievements per se, but I do ask that my statements aren't so blithely disregarded either. There is something going on, and I can hear it.

If Blind Freddie had an audio counterpart, I'd say even Deaf Ernie could hear it. Don't be like Deaf Ernie, do the tests.
 
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That is simply not true. If things are done the correct way and played back on the right devices that is. Also you don't have enough experience with various dedicated devices to conclude that music from HDD/SSD is worse than optical disk. That your specific setup and methods may be the exception not the rule.

I'm glad that you consider my results exceptional. ;-)

I set up the QNAP NAS and the iPad yesterday, it will be handy for listening in the upstairs bedrooms, where I don't intend to install full systems. I've also thrown my BDP-105D into the main system for the moment, since it both plays HDCD (which the UDP-103 doesn't) and it's analog stage is so blatantly coloured that any differences in sound are nicely masked.

Perhaps that's how you prefer to listen to music, but for serious design work it comes right out again.
 
I'm not asking for respect for old achievements per se, but I do ask that my statements aren't so blithely disregarded either.
You misread or misinterpreted my posts. I said that most of your statements may be true in your test conditions, but cannot (and should not) be stated as universally true. That's not disregard. That's clarifying and refining a broad concept.

Unfortunately, though, your most recent post has now veered off into wild territory. Some of the stuff about DAC's and "character" have nothing to do with the issues that I addressed in my previous 2 posts.

And I would like to help clear up some of the stuff I just read about SACD ... but I'm concerned that your "tests" have given you some pearls of wisdom that you will not wish to give up.