I just discovered another reason why a Sony disc player may start playing every hybrid SACD/CD as a standard CD rather than SACD.
I own several Sony DVD/CD/SACD players. Models include DVP-NS500V, DVP-NS755V, DVP-NS775V, DVP-NS975V, DVP-NS90V, and DVP-NS999ES.
I kept finding that one these players would suddenly decide to play only the CD layer of “hybrid” SACD/CD discs.
Background and context:
Here’s the kicker:
After selecting the CD playback mode then the player will then continue to play ***every*** hybrid SACD/CD disc as a CD.
This is persistent after switching off the power, and in fact even persists after disconnecting the mains power from the player. Evidently the selection of hybrid SACD/CD playback mode is stored in EEPROM.
This was literally driving me insane because I would suddenly realize that all of my hybrid SACD/CD discs were being played back only as a standard CD. I thought there was a problem with the optical pickup. Or that I hadn’t adjusted the servo parameters correctly. Or that there was an intermittent hardware/firmware fault.
To conclude:
When a hybrid SACD/CD is in the tray, stop the playback (press “stop” button) and then confirm that the SACD/CD button on the remote is capable of changing the playback mode between SACD or CD.
Changing the playback mode between SACD vs. CD will require 5 to 20 seconds for each mode change.
Oddly the newer models (DVP-NS775V, DVP-NS975V, DVP-NS90V) perform the mode change more slowly than older models like the DVP-NS500V or DVP-NS755V.
Is this explained in the owner’s manuals?
I’ll have to look that up.
-EB
I own several Sony DVD/CD/SACD players. Models include DVP-NS500V, DVP-NS755V, DVP-NS775V, DVP-NS975V, DVP-NS90V, and DVP-NS999ES.
I kept finding that one these players would suddenly decide to play only the CD layer of “hybrid” SACD/CD discs.
Background and context:
The remote control has a button to toggle between SACD or CD playback mode.
This button is functional only when a hybrid SACD/CD disc is in the tray and in the “stop” state.
Pressing the button triggers a “re-initialization” of the disc as either SACD or CD.
The indicators on the player itself are a bit confusing as to which layer is actually selected. The on-screen display does a better job of indicating which mode (CD or SACD) is currently active.
This button is functional only when a hybrid SACD/CD disc is in the tray and in the “stop” state.
Pressing the button triggers a “re-initialization” of the disc as either SACD or CD.
The indicators on the player itself are a bit confusing as to which layer is actually selected. The on-screen display does a better job of indicating which mode (CD or SACD) is currently active.
Here’s the kicker:
After selecting the CD playback mode then the player will then continue to play ***every*** hybrid SACD/CD disc as a CD.
This is persistent after switching off the power, and in fact even persists after disconnecting the mains power from the player. Evidently the selection of hybrid SACD/CD playback mode is stored in EEPROM.
This was literally driving me insane because I would suddenly realize that all of my hybrid SACD/CD discs were being played back only as a standard CD. I thought there was a problem with the optical pickup. Or that I hadn’t adjusted the servo parameters correctly. Or that there was an intermittent hardware/firmware fault.
To conclude:
When a hybrid SACD/CD is in the tray, stop the playback (press “stop” button) and then confirm that the SACD/CD button on the remote is capable of changing the playback mode between SACD or CD.
Changing the playback mode between SACD vs. CD will require 5 to 20 seconds for each mode change.
Oddly the newer models (DVP-NS775V, DVP-NS975V, DVP-NS90V) perform the mode change more slowly than older models like the DVP-NS500V or DVP-NS755V.
Is this explained in the owner’s manuals?
I’ll have to look that up.
-EB
Hello to all of you!
I'm glad I've found such a recent thread about such a vintage product! It came at the right time to discuss my problem.
I've been owning this awesome beast since Christmas 2001 (I had it region-unlocked), and even though I upgraded many times since, I've still kept it and used it in many different installs, either for Audio or video or both. I never had the SACD/CD identification problem and it still plays fine on Audio discs. My problem is on DVD play.
Last summer, I tried to play once a DVD-R and it didn't play. It did not came as a surprise, since DVD-R playing on this machine is hit and miss, and no big deal after all, but I just try it sometimes. But that time was particular, because instead of the usual error message, it blocked every function of the player and I couldn't even eject it! So I switched it off then on and fortunately could eject it later.
Everything seemed fine again for a few hours of use but one day I started having distortion and pixelation and mosaic-like patterns on pictures (looked like bad DVB transmission) with otherwise pristine DVDs. It started moderately first, very randomly too, and not necessarily affecting every playing session, but as time went by, became more prevalent and aggressive on the screen and on every session. I tried the auto-calibration procedure one to three times and the problem completely disappeared! I could enjoy great pictures again during many months more, but last winter the problem reappeared, and I tried many times the auto-calibration process, and could gain trouble-free DVD playing for a few more times, but shorter and shorter in between every calibration. I then decided, after a few unsuccessful auto-calibration attempts, to change the power cord, and it worked! I had once more many weeks of trouble-free DVD playing, and then it came back again, and this time I couldn't do nothing about it, I tried auto-calibration and other power cord to no avail.
So I brought my DVP-S9000ES to my local technician, and he ordered the optical pickup replacement but he was told it was discontinued.
My player was still under 1000 hours of use so I'm a little surprised. I could buy a used unit and exchange the pickups but I won't know the hours of use. I could order the chinese third-part pickups currently available but they seem not reliable at all. I could keep my unit for SACD/CD use only since it still works great for that, and try some DVD from time to time when the calibration tricks agree to work...
My technician had never seen or worked before on this unit, so he was obviously unaware of its service tricks and was impressed by the quality of the inside mechanics. It must be said that here in France this player was very scarcely distributed and terminated one year before the rest of the world. France stayed about one year and a half without any high-end Sony DVD player in its range.
Maybe a manual calibration instead of the automatic one could fix things, but I'm afraid to ruin something, and I don't know the values I should enter. I don't understand how it came it was able to properly function again for long enough before having problems again. I suspect my failed DVD-R attempt was the culprit and did some damage or misalignment to the laser.
So please any help about this issue would be really greatly appreciated!
I thank you all by advance, and of course feel free to ask questions about my unit and exchange information. Best to all!
I'm glad I've found such a recent thread about such a vintage product! It came at the right time to discuss my problem.
I've been owning this awesome beast since Christmas 2001 (I had it region-unlocked), and even though I upgraded many times since, I've still kept it and used it in many different installs, either for Audio or video or both. I never had the SACD/CD identification problem and it still plays fine on Audio discs. My problem is on DVD play.
Last summer, I tried to play once a DVD-R and it didn't play. It did not came as a surprise, since DVD-R playing on this machine is hit and miss, and no big deal after all, but I just try it sometimes. But that time was particular, because instead of the usual error message, it blocked every function of the player and I couldn't even eject it! So I switched it off then on and fortunately could eject it later.
Everything seemed fine again for a few hours of use but one day I started having distortion and pixelation and mosaic-like patterns on pictures (looked like bad DVB transmission) with otherwise pristine DVDs. It started moderately first, very randomly too, and not necessarily affecting every playing session, but as time went by, became more prevalent and aggressive on the screen and on every session. I tried the auto-calibration procedure one to three times and the problem completely disappeared! I could enjoy great pictures again during many months more, but last winter the problem reappeared, and I tried many times the auto-calibration process, and could gain trouble-free DVD playing for a few more times, but shorter and shorter in between every calibration. I then decided, after a few unsuccessful auto-calibration attempts, to change the power cord, and it worked! I had once more many weeks of trouble-free DVD playing, and then it came back again, and this time I couldn't do nothing about it, I tried auto-calibration and other power cord to no avail.
So I brought my DVP-S9000ES to my local technician, and he ordered the optical pickup replacement but he was told it was discontinued.
My player was still under 1000 hours of use so I'm a little surprised. I could buy a used unit and exchange the pickups but I won't know the hours of use. I could order the chinese third-part pickups currently available but they seem not reliable at all. I could keep my unit for SACD/CD use only since it still works great for that, and try some DVD from time to time when the calibration tricks agree to work...
My technician had never seen or worked before on this unit, so he was obviously unaware of its service tricks and was impressed by the quality of the inside mechanics. It must be said that here in France this player was very scarcely distributed and terminated one year before the rest of the world. France stayed about one year and a half without any high-end Sony DVD player in its range.
Maybe a manual calibration instead of the automatic one could fix things, but I'm afraid to ruin something, and I don't know the values I should enter. I don't understand how it came it was able to properly function again for long enough before having problems again. I suspect my failed DVD-R attempt was the culprit and did some damage or misalignment to the laser.
So please any help about this issue would be really greatly appreciated!
I thank you all by advance, and of course feel free to ask questions about my unit and exchange information. Best to all!
I believe the elapsed playing time of SACD discs gets totaled up by the "DVD" hours counter. I do need to confirm that by observing my own machines after using them for a while.
The hours meters on the DVD players in my collection vary from 65 hours to 12,000 hours. There isn't much correlation between playing hours and faults.
Have you or your repair technician checked all of the electrolytic capacitors in your DVP-S9000ES for high ESR?
At this age (20 years) this starts to be an issue.
I obtained a "totally dead" Sony DVP-NS999ES which had an obviously exploded electrolytic capacitor in its power supply section.
Small electrolytics, such as those on the main logic PC board, also tend to "dry out" without looking bloated or leaky.
Therefore ESR testing is a valuable tool.
I wound up replacing about 10 electrolytic capacitors in my Sony DVP-NS999ES.
I also put a different optical pickup into it, transplanted from a Sony DVP-NS715P.
It works great now.
-EB
The hours meters on the DVD players in my collection vary from 65 hours to 12,000 hours. There isn't much correlation between playing hours and faults.
Have you or your repair technician checked all of the electrolytic capacitors in your DVP-S9000ES for high ESR?
At this age (20 years) this starts to be an issue.
I obtained a "totally dead" Sony DVP-NS999ES which had an obviously exploded electrolytic capacitor in its power supply section.
Small electrolytics, such as those on the main logic PC board, also tend to "dry out" without looking bloated or leaky.
Therefore ESR testing is a valuable tool.
I wound up replacing about 10 electrolytic capacitors in my Sony DVP-NS999ES.
I also put a different optical pickup into it, transplanted from a Sony DVP-NS715P.
It works great now.
-EB
I suggest finding a different repair technician.
It appears your technician jumped to a conclusion of “faulty optical pickup” without inspecting or checking anything else.
It’s pretty clear that electrolytic capacitors fail with age.
The generic “$10 transistor tester” devices widely sold on eBay and alibaba can also test capacitors for both uF and ESR.
For items like CD players the ESR of the electrolytic capacitor is the critical item.
Tiny electrolytic capacitors contain only a few milligrams of electrolyte solution. If that evaporates or leaks out then the capacitor becomes an open circuit.
Also, there was a worldwide “pandemic” of electrolytic capacitor failures between 1999 and 2006. This occurred because one of the major vendors of the electrolyte paste used by every capacitor manufacturer messed up their recipe for a couple of years. Because of that electronic products manufactured during those years 1998-2006 have a 2-3 times higher rate of faulty electrolytic capacitors than items manufactured earlier or later.
I routinely check the ESR of every electrolytic during restoration of older items. I think everyone who considers themselves “skilled” at repairing vintage audio gear should learn to suspect electrolytic capacitors and be prepared to test their ESR and replace them when needed.
Please note that it isn’t often necessary to replace every electrolytic capacitor. If the uF and ESR both measure within spec then an old capacitor can still be used.
As for your DVP-S9000ES, I recommend checking the ESR of every electrolytic on its power supply PC board and additionally checking ESR of all tiny surface—mount electrolytics located on the main logic PC boards.
-EB
It appears your technician jumped to a conclusion of “faulty optical pickup” without inspecting or checking anything else.
It’s pretty clear that electrolytic capacitors fail with age.
The generic “$10 transistor tester” devices widely sold on eBay and alibaba can also test capacitors for both uF and ESR.
For items like CD players the ESR of the electrolytic capacitor is the critical item.
Tiny electrolytic capacitors contain only a few milligrams of electrolyte solution. If that evaporates or leaks out then the capacitor becomes an open circuit.
Also, there was a worldwide “pandemic” of electrolytic capacitor failures between 1999 and 2006. This occurred because one of the major vendors of the electrolyte paste used by every capacitor manufacturer messed up their recipe for a couple of years. Because of that electronic products manufactured during those years 1998-2006 have a 2-3 times higher rate of faulty electrolytic capacitors than items manufactured earlier or later.
I routinely check the ESR of every electrolytic during restoration of older items. I think everyone who considers themselves “skilled” at repairing vintage audio gear should learn to suspect electrolytic capacitors and be prepared to test their ESR and replace them when needed.
Please note that it isn’t often necessary to replace every electrolytic capacitor. If the uF and ESR both measure within spec then an old capacitor can still be used.
As for your DVP-S9000ES, I recommend checking the ESR of every electrolytic on its power supply PC board and additionally checking ESR of all tiny surface—mount electrolytics located on the main logic PC boards.
-EB
The optical pickups in these Sony DVP players contain two laser diodes:
The visible red laser diode is used for playing DVD & SACD discs.
The infrared laser is used for playing CD discs.
Only one laser is switched on for any given disc.
It seems your machine got totally locked up that time. A faulty optical pickup rarely causes that. More likely there is an electronic fault on the main logic board or perhaps a power supply fault. The most common symptom of a faulty optical pickup is that the machine fails to detect, initialize, or play one or more variety of disc. It might still play every CD perfectly, but fail to play any DVD or SACD.
However a faulty optical pickup should not cause a complete lock-up of the machine.
Faults that happen intermittently are more likely caused by electronic problems rather than by worn out optical pickups.
It is often possible to obtain a working optical pickup from a low-end DVD player model which used the same optical pickup. I have done this many times with models in the more recent Sony DVP-NS series. The DVP-S series is a couple of years older. It is likely that the optical pickup from a low-end DVP-S machine will be compatible with your DVP-S9000ES.
The calibration procedures are similar for all Sony DVD players of similar vintage, regardless of whether it is a high-end or low-end model. Perhaps the service technician was unfamiliar with every Sony DVD player of similar age?
Did you perform the auto-calibrate procedure using a DVD-R or CD-R?
If so this could incorrectly change some of the internal servo parameters which are stored in EEPROM. However this cannot permanently damage the machine or the optical pickup.
These machines do have a service menu function to “restore EEPROM to factory default.” After doing that the calibration can be performed again.
There is one section of the calibration which is best performed manually and I prefer to do this before attempting any of the “auto calibrate” procedures.
The Sony service manual refers to this as ”disc check memory” or as “mirror time adjustment.” This procedure requires only 2 discs:
1) A factory manufactured single-layer DVD
2) A factory manufactured standard CD.
Next, auto-calibration should always be done in the following sequence:
1) Use a factory manufactured “single layer” DVD disc
2) Use a factory manufactured “dual layer” DVD disc (note: most feature films are on dual-layer discs#)
3) Use a factory manufactured standard CD disc (do not use hybrid SACD/CD disc or SACD- only disc).
-EB
Thank you for your very interesting replies!
The capacitors issue is something I will ask my next technician to inspect.
I need to find someone specialized in hifi and high-end components, because the workshop I went to was more into mass produced general electronics.
I did not calibrate with DVD-R or CD-R, just factory made official discs.
This is a beast I would like to keep, just like a classic vintage sports car, this is not some disposable phone or pad of today's age, and that is not a very well understood philosophy in my country, where components are thrown away when something "better" comes along. So yes, I definitely need some technical workshop well into vintage high-end electronics.
The capacitors issue is something I will ask my next technician to inspect.
I need to find someone specialized in hifi and high-end components, because the workshop I went to was more into mass produced general electronics.
I did not calibrate with DVD-R or CD-R, just factory made official discs.
This is a beast I would like to keep, just like a classic vintage sports car, this is not some disposable phone or pad of today's age, and that is not a very well understood philosophy in my country, where components are thrown away when something "better" comes along. So yes, I definitely need some technical workshop well into vintage high-end electronics.
Actually, after working through a stack of more than 10 Sony DVD/CD/SACD players I have had no success with these so-called “automatic calibration procedures. I observe the same behavior as you did:
The machine gets part way through the process.
Then it fails at one specific step
It never progresses to the next step
Often it must be power cycled to recover
Answer: Yes. For this machine the KHM-220AAA optical pickup assembly includes the entire basic transport mechanism: laser optical pickup, spindle motor with disc platter, transverse slide (or sled) motor with linear motion drive, and the baseplate (often equipped with shock absorbing suspension springs.)
Note: the disc tray, clamper, and the tray drive motor are not part of the KHM-220AAA.
Answer: Yes, every KHM-220AAA is fully interchangeable no matter what model it came from. The 3 digits in the part number (220) must match exactly for the pickups to be interchangeable. It’s best if the 3 suffix letters (AAA) also match. However in some cases one with different suffix letters will work or be adaptable.
-EB
KHM-220AAA is widely available on the web, but there are two options to choose from: either the laser head lens by itself or the complete optical block including the mechanics. I don't know which one should be the most appropriate?
By the way, I found an online company who used to work with the famous Modwright mods back in the 2000's, and they seem very knowledgeable about this particular player and a few other ES models. They say they can still work on them. I'm seriously considering to send my player to them, even though it means packaging and sending it through postal services...
By the way, I found an online company who used to work with the famous Modwright mods back in the 2000's, and they seem very knowledgeable about this particular player and a few other ES models. They say they can still work on them. I'm seriously considering to send my player to them, even though it means packaging and sending it through postal services...
I agree. When I had an opportunity to obtain a Sony DVP-NS999ES for a reasonable cost I jumped on it.
The Sony DVP-NS999ES is a slightly newer model.
Its appearance, size, weight, and performance are similar to the Sony DVP-S9000ES.
My initial repair was replacement of one faulty electrolytic capacitor in its main power supply:
I also installed a different KHM-270AAA optical pickup. That said, I'm not certain its original optical pickup is actually faulty. I had several KHM-270AAA pickups on hand from donor machines. Switching out the optical pickup immediately permitted the DVP-NS999ES to play the SACD layer from all of my "hybrid" SACD/CD discs. The original pickup often failed to do this. But it worked OK for regular DVD and CD discs. It would also play the CD layer of hybrid SACD/CD discs.
Note: I'm still experimenting with "calibration" procedures for these Sony DVP-NS series machines. Sony's so-called "auto-calibration" process does not work for me. I've tried it 20+ times with 10 different machines. It always fails part way through the process.
I plan to keep my Sony DVP-NS999ES mainly as a CD/SACD player. For my home theater setup I'm now using a Blu-Ray player which also plays every other disc format (DVD, CD, SACD). For watching movies this Blu-Ray machine outperforms older DVD-only players by a wide margin.
Hopefully you will succeed at fully repairing your DVP-S9000ES.
-EB
An update to this post: I contacted other technicians but very few were ok to inspect it, and even in that case they said repair was dependent on the availability of parts by Sony, and unfortunately they have been discontinued in...2006!
So I managed to find a "pulled" KHM-220AAA online, and my first technician agreed to change it. He told me it was in bad condition compared to the original one, which "looked like new", and the player couldn't even initialize any disc! However, my technician didn't know any of the service menu calibration procedures ..I asked him to put the original pickup back on and i will take it home. I think I should give up on French repair services except for HiFi, DVD players here used to be seen as disposable hardware, and AV enthusiasts from this board are more knowledgeable about specific models service tricks.
By the way, I talked about the capacitors, and I was told with a smile it was a hot topic in message boards, even for a pram!
The only solution left may be to send it to the US or Japan...
Electricboyo , do you have a repair shop?
So I managed to find a "pulled" KHM-220AAA online, and my first technician agreed to change it. He told me it was in bad condition compared to the original one, which "looked like new", and the player couldn't even initialize any disc! However, my technician didn't know any of the service menu calibration procedures ..I asked him to put the original pickup back on and i will take it home. I think I should give up on French repair services except for HiFi, DVD players here used to be seen as disposable hardware, and AV enthusiasts from this board are more knowledgeable about specific models service tricks.
By the way, I talked about the capacitors, and I was told with a smile it was a hot topic in message boards, even for a pram!
The only solution left may be to send it to the US or Japan...
Electricboyo , do you have a repair shop?
A little update that may be of interest to DIYers...
So I took back home my DVP-S9000ES with the original pickup put back on.
I tried manual calibration a few times and noticed wrong values. I was unable to manually adjust, since my model is European and the service Manual does not list it, it may be the culprit.
Anyway, I tried again auto adjustment many times, first the "all" sequence to no avail. then, individually, still to no avail. Then I tried only on DVD-DL, since it is the most frequently used. It didn't work, i tried again three times in a row on DVD-Dl, not exiting the service menu. I then noticed the distortion was much less aggressive. I then tried once more on DVD-DL, and then, after a few seconds of tiny distortion, bingo! Picture was clean and stayed that way! picture was as beautiful as ever on this vintage classy machine.
I tried A few discs and during an hour this was as perfect as ever. Unfortunately, I tried a disc that I then recalled it was the first movie (after the initial big bug caused by a DVD-R) that exhibited problems. Distortion came back and so I had to restart the whole process, and it worked again after many attempts. interestingly, I think this player has a weakness on "bad" discs, and it can misalign the laser and wreak havoc on the machine on every disc.
This process may be able to keep some more time the original pickup until it dies for good. After all, it hadn't so many hours of use compared to other machines.
So I took back home my DVP-S9000ES with the original pickup put back on.
I tried manual calibration a few times and noticed wrong values. I was unable to manually adjust, since my model is European and the service Manual does not list it, it may be the culprit.
Anyway, I tried again auto adjustment many times, first the "all" sequence to no avail. then, individually, still to no avail. Then I tried only on DVD-DL, since it is the most frequently used. It didn't work, i tried again three times in a row on DVD-Dl, not exiting the service menu. I then noticed the distortion was much less aggressive. I then tried once more on DVD-DL, and then, after a few seconds of tiny distortion, bingo! Picture was clean and stayed that way! picture was as beautiful as ever on this vintage classy machine.
I tried A few discs and during an hour this was as perfect as ever. Unfortunately, I tried a disc that I then recalled it was the first movie (after the initial big bug caused by a DVD-R) that exhibited problems. Distortion came back and so I had to restart the whole process, and it worked again after many attempts. interestingly, I think this player has a weakness on "bad" discs, and it can misalign the laser and wreak havoc on the machine on every disc.
This process may be able to keep some more time the original pickup until it dies for good. After all, it hadn't so many hours of use compared to other machines.
chansiukwing: I normally see that message with my "problem" discs. Have you tried other CDs or DVDs? Try some single-layer regular old CDs and see how it goes. Don't use home-burned CDs because that player was very, very fussy.
Circling back to this project for a quick checkup. I had time to pop the lid off of my S9000 to visually inspect all capacitors for signs of trouble. Everything looks good, save for just three caps that look ever so slightly unhappy. They are, as expected, part of the standby/power switch board AC-113. I confirmed their specs with the service manual, so will add those into yet another Mouser order.
I don't currently have a way to check ESR on the caps yet but have earmarked a few bucks to consider getting an ESR meter.
Otherwise, I was so surprised to see all the rest of the caps in excellent condition, and was also surprised at how many Rubycon, Nichicon Fine Gold and Nichicon Gold Tune caps were inside. Oh my.
I don't currently have a way to check ESR on the caps yet but have earmarked a few bucks to consider getting an ESR meter.
Otherwise, I was so surprised to see all the rest of the caps in excellent condition, and was also surprised at how many Rubycon, Nichicon Fine Gold and Nichicon Gold Tune caps were inside. Oh my.
What a useful thread, I have learned a lot about my newly acquired DVM NS900V picked up in local thrift store !
My issues is, as you all have guessed, no read of SACD layer on Hybrid discs !
So what I have done prior to reading this post:
I have only 5 SACD to try, and all of the are Hybrids, all of them are no go
I have also tried SACD Rip on DVD-R ( Which is playable on my BDP-S380 ) w/o success as well as an attempt to play HD only SACD.
What would you guys recommend doing next:
My issues is, as you all have guessed, no read of SACD layer on Hybrid discs !
So what I have done prior to reading this post:
- have performed an aliment/calibration procedure with factory made CD, DVD-SL, DVD-DL successfully via service menu
- have performed an aliment/calibration procedure with CD-R, DVD-R. DVD-R DL successfully via service menu
- carefully cleaned-up laser lens from hairs and a bit of dust
- recorded all my steps on video
I have only 5 SACD to try, and all of the are Hybrids, all of them are no go
I have also tried SACD Rip on DVD-R ( Which is playable on my BDP-S380 ) w/o success as well as an attempt to play HD only SACD.
What would you guys recommend doing next:
- Manual tuneup/calibration ?
- EEPROM reset ?
- Last resort is to find a donor usit for optical pickup ?