Hello learned colleagues,
Does anyone know which Sanyo board does the Roksan Attessa Transport use?
I am trying to tune it properly and because of lack of manual, I'd like to get one from another player using the same board.
The designation is 1B10007700 which in Google bring out a single result from someone asking the same question (but has more pics) and is about Morgan Audio DeVa:
Morgan Audio 'DeVa' CD Player - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum
Any clues?
Cheers
Roman
Does anyone know which Sanyo board does the Roksan Attessa Transport use?
I am trying to tune it properly and because of lack of manual, I'd like to get one from another player using the same board.
The designation is 1B10007700 which in Google bring out a single result from someone asking the same question (but has more pics) and is about Morgan Audio DeVa:
Morgan Audio 'DeVa' CD Player - UK Vintage Radio Repair and Restoration Discussion Forum
Any clues?
Cheers
Roman
Attachments
Roksan Attessa Transport - which board
Dear Rockeater, I think the basis was a C.E.C CD891R. My machine gave in recently as well and so I was spending a lot of time on the internet to gain some information on this thing and CD repairs in general.
I replaced the laser (Sanyo SF90 6/6 ) only to find, that it it still doesn't want to recognize CDs, hence it didn't even start the disk spindle. Laser light and focus action was visible though, the motor had some 12Ohms (at full turn) and all end switches and mechanics looked good as well.
Unfortunately I found no manual for this specific machine but went through the ones of other models of the same vendor which can be found easily on the internet.
I'm from Austria/Europe and did only find the CD891R machine on Asian websites. I guess they're not easy to source by now and probably haven't even been sold in Europe.
In one manual I found (780/880) there is a basic setting on the F-Gain of app 30deg counterclockwise from the potentiometers mechanical centre and 15deg for T-Gain recommended as basic setting. Since F-Gain looked fine I tried on T-Gain since it was at ways more then 15deg. Luckily this did the trick and I think my old laser is probably working as well. Hm....
So all good with me again.
Probably this helps you a bit further? In case you find a service manual - let me know please.
Good luck
Stefan
Dear Rockeater, I think the basis was a C.E.C CD891R. My machine gave in recently as well and so I was spending a lot of time on the internet to gain some information on this thing and CD repairs in general.
I replaced the laser (Sanyo SF90 6/6 ) only to find, that it it still doesn't want to recognize CDs, hence it didn't even start the disk spindle. Laser light and focus action was visible though, the motor had some 12Ohms (at full turn) and all end switches and mechanics looked good as well.
Unfortunately I found no manual for this specific machine but went through the ones of other models of the same vendor which can be found easily on the internet.
I'm from Austria/Europe and did only find the CD891R machine on Asian websites. I guess they're not easy to source by now and probably haven't even been sold in Europe.
In one manual I found (780/880) there is a basic setting on the F-Gain of app 30deg counterclockwise from the potentiometers mechanical centre and 15deg for T-Gain recommended as basic setting. Since F-Gain looked fine I tried on T-Gain since it was at ways more then 15deg. Luckily this did the trick and I think my old laser is probably working as well. Hm....
So all good with me again.
Probably this helps you a bit further? In case you find a service manual - let me know please.
Good luck
Stefan
Thanks a lot for the link to the manuals. I think the Sanyo manual covers the laser setup in the same manner as other Sanyo manuals I found do. The process appears to be quite similar.
I also found the Sanyo microprocessor manual but lack the specific software they put on it also do not have equipment to read/write to it. Anyways - mine doesn't appear to be dead
.
All the best!
I also found the Sanyo microprocessor manual but lack the specific software they put on it also do not have equipment to read/write to it. Anyways - mine doesn't appear to be dead
.All the best!
Thanks guys.
I have just bought a Service Manual for it from Germany.
I have two of these Roksan Attessa transports for service now and they both had broken laser head driving gears (the same one).
Strangely, I could tune the servo to read the first track and it would play OK until it reached the broken gear position (which is reasonable). But what I could not work out, that it would not jump even to the second track which was well before the position of broken teeth, but just sit there trying to get a focus lock.
The previous question is not relevant. I found a photo of Roksan Attessa Transport.
Roman, once upon I was repairing a TEAC PD-435 CD player, which read discs with errors. It also used a transport with an SF-90 laser head. I found two reasons. The first is a weakened belt of sled-driver. The second is increased friction in the bearing sleeve of the sled-motor. This second reason prevented the sled-motor from starting to rotate at low voltages generated by the tracking system. It began to rotate only when a sufficiently large voltage was reached, but by this moment the tracking system could no longer follow the track on the disc by moving the lens and glitches appeared. I did not disassembled the motor and only lubricated the top sleeve. The motor started to work better. The glitches disappeared.
In addition, you wrote that you measured the resistance of the disc motor. Did you also measure the resistance of the sled-motor? If its commutator is oxidized, then it also cannot operate at low voltages. I wrote about a similar case here Finally, an affordable CD Transport: the Shigaclone story
The more modern Sanyo transport mechanism is described, but the reason is similar. Moreover, until I cleaned the commutator, the motor could not move the carriage at all.
Roman, once upon I was repairing a TEAC PD-435 CD player, which read discs with errors. It also used a transport with an SF-90 laser head. I found two reasons. The first is a weakened belt of sled-driver. The second is increased friction in the bearing sleeve of the sled-motor. This second reason prevented the sled-motor from starting to rotate at low voltages generated by the tracking system. It began to rotate only when a sufficiently large voltage was reached, but by this moment the tracking system could no longer follow the track on the disc by moving the lens and glitches appeared. I did not disassembled the motor and only lubricated the top sleeve. The motor started to work better. The glitches disappeared.
In addition, you wrote that you measured the resistance of the disc motor. Did you also measure the resistance of the sled-motor? If its commutator is oxidized, then it also cannot operate at low voltages. I wrote about a similar case here Finally, an affordable CD Transport: the Shigaclone story
The more modern Sanyo transport mechanism is described, but the reason is similar. Moreover, until I cleaned the commutator, the motor could not move the carriage at all.
Thanks for this Rurak.
I did not measure the coil resistance of the motor but I did replace the belt which was perished, gooey and stretchy. But maybe my belt is too firm? I will go back and change it for a looser, thinner one.
I will also measure the torque of the motor. I have this Meratronic V640 analogue multimeter which has µA range and when shaft is vigorously twisted (accelerated) it should produce - if a motor is good - a rapid travel of the needle to either end of the scale on the lowest range.
Cheers
Roman
Roman, I also put on a stiffer new belt first. But because of this, the friction in the bushings of the motor increased and it began to work worse. Only after lubricating the upper bushing did the motor start working well.
It makes little sense to check the operation of the motor as a generator using a multimeter. Of course, it will produce some kind of voltage. But it is necessary to check the resistance of the motor. This will indicate the condition of his commutator and brushes. If the commutator has oxidized, the motor will not be able to operate at low voltages.
Cheers
Valery
It makes little sense to check the operation of the motor as a generator using a multimeter. Of course, it will produce some kind of voltage. But it is necessary to check the resistance of the motor. This will indicate the condition of his commutator and brushes. If the commutator has oxidized, the motor will not be able to operate at low voltages.
Cheers
Valery
Valery,
Thanks for your reply.
I have now basically fixed it and it works well but... it does not jump to track the way it should, for it takes its time to arrive at the given position.
Strangely, the sled travels up and down well when it goes to its resting position or when it goes to track 1, but during skipping to the track no 3 or 6 it labours and moves in steps.
I made a video which is here:
Roksan Attessa laser hear does not travel (jumps) to tracks smoothly - YouTube
Is this the situation you were talking about?
I did try to lubricate the top sleeve with some thin oil but it made no difference. I could put the motor into ultrasonic bath for cleaning, but this would also remove any factory grease that is there.
The motor's resistance is 13.2Ω
Welcome any suggestions.
Roman
Thanks for your reply.
I have now basically fixed it and it works well but... it does not jump to track the way it should, for it takes its time to arrive at the given position.
Strangely, the sled travels up and down well when it goes to its resting position or when it goes to track 1, but during skipping to the track no 3 or 6 it labours and moves in steps.
I made a video which is here:
Roksan Attessa laser hear does not travel (jumps) to tracks smoothly - YouTube
Is this the situation you were talking about?
I did try to lubricate the top sleeve with some thin oil but it made no difference. I could put the motor into ultrasonic bath for cleaning, but this would also remove any factory grease that is there.
The motor's resistance is 13.2Ω
Welcome any suggestions.
Roman
Roman,
Judging by the resistance, the condition of the engine commutator and brushes is good. There really is no point clearin it in an ultrasonic bath.
You mentioned in your videos that one of the yellow-brown gears has lost a few teeth. Have you replaced her? If replaced, have you checked the condition of the teeth of the other gear in contact with it?
In general, I have noticed that gears made of such plastic often lose teeth. I recently repairing a Philips RCD1 drive, in which one gear was also made of plastic of the same color. It also lost a few teeth. Fortunately, I bought such a gear on AliExpress, but already made of white plastic . The other white plastic gears in this drive were fine.
I did not measure the voltage on the sled engine in different modes, but maybe when the laser head moves quickly from one extreme position to another extreme position, a higher voltage is applied to the sled engine, which allows it to pass through the damaged section of the gear normally. And when switching between tracks, a lower voltage is applied to the engine. And at a reduced voltage, there is not enough engine torque to overcome any additional resistance to the movement of the sled. For example, due to broken teeth, due to dried grease or debris on the rails of the sled. I also saw in your video that the bundle of wires going to the laser head clings to the black radiator of the driver chip when moving. This can also be the cause of the jumps. Although I could not see well.
I repeat, I did not measure the voltage on the sled engine in different modes. This is just my guess.
Also in your video, I noticed a funny rudiment of sled engine control. When the drive cover is opened, the laser head moves to the periphery of the disc. In other drives, when the cover is opened, the laser head moves towards the center of the disc. This rudiment remains from the same Sanyo drives, but with a disc tray. For example, in TEAC PD-435, Parasound C/DP-1000, CEC CD2100 / CD3100. In them, the tray is pulled out by the same engine as for moving the sled. In this case, the laser head moves to the periphery of the disc and then mechanically the engine switches to the tray. Your CD player does not have a tray, but apparently the developers did not order another control processor with a new firmware. Saved money
Judging by the resistance, the condition of the engine commutator and brushes is good. There really is no point clearin it in an ultrasonic bath.
You mentioned in your videos that one of the yellow-brown gears has lost a few teeth. Have you replaced her? If replaced, have you checked the condition of the teeth of the other gear in contact with it?
In general, I have noticed that gears made of such plastic often lose teeth. I recently repairing a Philips RCD1 drive, in which one gear was also made of plastic of the same color. It also lost a few teeth. Fortunately, I bought such a gear on AliExpress, but already made of white plastic . The other white plastic gears in this drive were fine.
I did not measure the voltage on the sled engine in different modes, but maybe when the laser head moves quickly from one extreme position to another extreme position, a higher voltage is applied to the sled engine, which allows it to pass through the damaged section of the gear normally. And when switching between tracks, a lower voltage is applied to the engine. And at a reduced voltage, there is not enough engine torque to overcome any additional resistance to the movement of the sled. For example, due to broken teeth, due to dried grease or debris on the rails of the sled. I also saw in your video that the bundle of wires going to the laser head clings to the black radiator of the driver chip when moving. This can also be the cause of the jumps. Although I could not see well.
I repeat, I did not measure the voltage on the sled engine in different modes. This is just my guess.
Also in your video, I noticed a funny rudiment of sled engine control. When the drive cover is opened, the laser head moves to the periphery of the disc. In other drives, when the cover is opened, the laser head moves towards the center of the disc. This rudiment remains from the same Sanyo drives, but with a disc tray. For example, in TEAC PD-435, Parasound C/DP-1000, CEC CD2100 / CD3100. In them, the tray is pulled out by the same engine as for moving the sled. In this case, the laser head moves to the periphery of the disc and then mechanically the engine switches to the tray. Your CD player does not have a tray, but apparently the developers did not order another control processor with a new firmware. Saved money
Valery,
I naturally replaced the gears and all the other gears were fine. I cleaned the rails and the head moved freely. The wiring loom normally is tied to the mechanism, but I cut the cable-tie so it would better show the jerky movement of the head.
While looking at it, I concluded, that either - as you suggest - there is not enough torque or, that the thin belt I received with the gears is just slipping. I could not see it slipping with all the covers fitted to this mechanism. Will try a different belt to see if it is a solution.
As far as the head moving away from the centre when the top cover is opened, maybe it is a way to keep the dust out from the lens when CDs are loaded?
I naturally replaced the gears and all the other gears were fine. I cleaned the rails and the head moved freely. The wiring loom normally is tied to the mechanism, but I cut the cable-tie so it would better show the jerky movement of the head.
While looking at it, I concluded, that either - as you suggest - there is not enough torque or, that the thin belt I received with the gears is just slipping. I could not see it slipping with all the covers fitted to this mechanism. Will try a different belt to see if it is a solution.
As far as the head moving away from the centre when the top cover is opened, maybe it is a way to keep the dust out from the lens when CDs are loaded?
Roman,
Then only two reasons remain. Either the belt is slipping, or the tracking servo system is faulty and requires adjustment. To check for belt slippage, you can put a mark on the engine pulley. So it will be easier to notice whether it slows down at the time of the carriage jumps, or rotates evenly.
Although I had another case when a transformer of insufficient power was installed in the player instead of a burnt one. There was a strong drop in the supply voltage of the driver microcircuit. And this was seen by the oscilloscope at the moment when the tracking servo system increased the voltage on the motor in order to move the carriage. As a result, the voltage on the motor did not increase as much as was required and he moved the carriage with a delay.
You, of course, have a working transformer, but you can check the driver supply voltage. Any electrolytic capacitor may have dried out.
Then only two reasons remain. Either the belt is slipping, or the tracking servo system is faulty and requires adjustment. To check for belt slippage, you can put a mark on the engine pulley. So it will be easier to notice whether it slows down at the time of the carriage jumps, or rotates evenly.
Although I had another case when a transformer of insufficient power was installed in the player instead of a burnt one. There was a strong drop in the supply voltage of the driver microcircuit. And this was seen by the oscilloscope at the moment when the tracking servo system increased the voltage on the motor in order to move the carriage. As a result, the voltage on the motor did not increase as much as was required and he moved the carriage with a delay.
You, of course, have a working transformer, but you can check the driver supply voltage. Any electrolytic capacitor may have dried out.
Valery,
I marked the pulleys and gears and found that it was not slipping at all.
So I decided to replace the motor. In the meantime, I blew the laser by putting the whole assembly on my chair and the receiving diode array was blown.
I was properly grounded, but the chair was not. :-( First laser blown in 5 years and those SF-90 lasers with a chip and 6/6 wiring loom are now expansive.
Interestingly, the laser has a metal body as the original one did, but the cable going to the head was very stiff and I felt, I had to fit the original old cable. Whereas it still worked, but with the cable tied to the chassis, the motor was labouring very hard to move the head. In colder weather, the cable could have become even stiffer and it could possibly fail.
The thing works much better now but still, it is not perfect.
The owner says it works better than when new ;-)
Had