Thanks for the advice. I think the trial is a VERY good idea to start. BUT I want to use the highest quality DAC I can BUILD (this is DIY audio, ain't it?) Any suggestions for a good kit?
I've never built a DAC. So, I don't have any recommendations re: designs. Flip through the threads. There is a lot of discussion re: what "highest quality" means. What I'd suggest is that for each thing you'd consider, read up on what the designer's goals were. If they align with yours, and if it's within your budget (you can spend a metric #$#% tonne even on DIY DACs) - give it a go.
Either way... have fun. It's a neat area of audio that I can't even begin to grasp.
Either way... have fun. It's a neat area of audio that I can't even begin to grasp.
A possible solution that I use:
- Ripping my CD collection with EAC into WAV format on a PC (other format like FLAC is also possible)
- Storing my music on a NAS (Zyxel NAS326 in my case)
- Playing back music with KODI on smartphone or on a Raspberry PI (a better DAC should be added, because the RPi has only 12 bits D/A)
- Control with KORE on smartphone, this is a good all-round remote controller
Pieces are connected on WiFi. The NAS has an integrated media player, and it also stores photos, videos, other files as a backup.
- Ripping my CD collection with EAC into WAV format on a PC (other format like FLAC is also possible)
- Storing my music on a NAS (Zyxel NAS326 in my case)
- Playing back music with KODI on smartphone or on a Raspberry PI (a better DAC should be added, because the RPi has only 12 bits D/A)
- Control with KORE on smartphone, this is a good all-round remote controller
Pieces are connected on WiFi. The NAS has an integrated media player, and it also stores photos, videos, other files as a backup.
Stopped by Value Village yesterday, picked a Acer Aspire One in good shape for $10. This has an Intel "Atom" processor, which barely works in terms of modern PC performance. Video playback dies at 720p, to give an idea of its capabilities.
I put MX Linux on it, using a 16 GB SSD I had laying around (HDD was removed). Popped in a $4 USB "CSR 4.0" BT dongle. All setup went virtually plug 'n play with MX Linux.
Easily discovered my network share using the file manager. MX Linux came with "Clementine", which then was able to add my router hosted music collection to its "library". Now I can select any music I want for playback through my Zoudio BT amplifier. Just like from my phone, or my W10 system. Playback sounds great and with no stutters, skips or delays.
If you think you need an i5/i7/i9 NUC just to playback CD SQ music, well apparently the very bottom of Intel's barrel works just fine. I'm sure this little system would play just fine though a 3.5mm stereo headphone output connection, or a USB DAC. I dont have any USB DACs to try anymore - my amplifiers are my DACs. Except in the garage...
I type this as it perhaps helps someone, who may be wondering what it takes to "stream". I notice Moode player has an x86 version, however I'm unsure if it can handle the BT connection / external CRS 4.0 dongle on this little POS PC - which can "stream" music from Youtube videos as it is. Just set the video res out of the way and hide the browser window so it doesnt have to render much, if anything.
I put MX Linux on it, using a 16 GB SSD I had laying around (HDD was removed). Popped in a $4 USB "CSR 4.0" BT dongle. All setup went virtually plug 'n play with MX Linux.
Easily discovered my network share using the file manager. MX Linux came with "Clementine", which then was able to add my router hosted music collection to its "library". Now I can select any music I want for playback through my Zoudio BT amplifier. Just like from my phone, or my W10 system. Playback sounds great and with no stutters, skips or delays.
If you think you need an i5/i7/i9 NUC just to playback CD SQ music, well apparently the very bottom of Intel's barrel works just fine. I'm sure this little system would play just fine though a 3.5mm stereo headphone output connection, or a USB DAC. I dont have any USB DACs to try anymore - my amplifiers are my DACs. Except in the garage...
I type this as it perhaps helps someone, who may be wondering what it takes to "stream". I notice Moode player has an x86 version, however I'm unsure if it can handle the BT connection / external CRS 4.0 dongle on this little POS PC - which can "stream" music from Youtube videos as it is. Just set the video res out of the way and hide the browser window so it doesnt have to render much, if anything.
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Book on “File Based Audio”
A warm thanks to all the friendly folks for your explanations, comments and input on this topic of streaming music.
For those who need help with basic understanding and even the jargon, like I do, I have found a book that is helping me to come up to speed. It is available in eBook format from the Apple App Store (where I bought it for $7.99), or Amazon for $5.99. It is titled:
“File Based Audio, aka Streaming Audio”, by Hans Beekhuyzen
A warm thanks to all the friendly folks for your explanations, comments and input on this topic of streaming music.
For those who need help with basic understanding and even the jargon, like I do, I have found a book that is helping me to come up to speed. It is available in eBook format from the Apple App Store (where I bought it for $7.99), or Amazon for $5.99. It is titled:
“File Based Audio, aka Streaming Audio”, by Hans Beekhuyzen
The PC based file playback requires few things
- the lowest possible CPU switching frequency
- OS that is designed for audio (skeleton number of background applications)
- liner power supply
DAC must have USB isolation (if you gonna stream via USB)
Building a DAC is okay ONLY if you want to learn something... and get your hands dirty, because it will cost you around 2,000 - 3,000 depending on the power supply quality... mostly. Hence, it is better to get a ready-made DAC.
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It could be lost in translation or just an interesting choice of words, but that's a fairly strong use of the word "requires". I'd lean more toward... "I'd recommend", "It's my preference", "I like" etc. None of what you've listed is required, nor does it cost anywhere near 2-3k (if you're referring to USD currency) to build a DAC.
I read the notes. Looks like a great source of information. Glad you found it. Thanks for sharing
Just because I've never chosen to build one from scratch, absolutely does not mean what you've listed is required. Nor does it mean that one needs to cost the amount you've listed.
My comment stands on the face of its merits and factual information alone. However, this distracts from the OPs original questions, so I will leave it at that.
My comment stands on the face of its merits and factual information alone. However, this distracts from the OPs original questions, so I will leave it at that.
@FrancoisG - I promise this will be the last OT post from me.
I am at this very moment listening to a perfectly functioning system with...
5.1 GHz processor
Windows 10
Switch mode PSU for both the PC itself and the RasPi
So, you are simply incorrect. What you've listed are your preferences perhaps. Those are not requirements. You are incorrect. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt re: a perceived difference in choice of words. Now, I think you may be just trolling. I still love reading your posts.
Mine don't. Works just dandy.
Again, your opinion. This is not fact. A person could choose to build MANY DACs for well under that amount. I'd be happy to demonstrate. If I can do it; you pay for it. How's that?
I am at this very moment listening to a perfectly functioning system with...
5.1 GHz processor
Windows 10
Switch mode PSU for both the PC itself and the RasPi
So, you are simply incorrect. What you've listed are your preferences perhaps. Those are not requirements. You are incorrect. I was giving you the benefit of the doubt re: a perceived difference in choice of words. Now, I think you may be just trolling. I still love reading your posts.
Mine don't. Works just dandy.
Again, your opinion. This is not fact. A person could choose to build MANY DACs for well under that amount. I'd be happy to demonstrate. If I can do it; you pay for it. How's that?
@ItsAllInMyHead,
Not really off OT. Glad for confirmation that we don’t need to spend 2000-3000 (US$?) on a DAC to get good sound that will satisfy most of us.
I can also understand that @Extreme_Boky have other standards, well, maybe extreme standards, and that’s OK. We need people to keep pushing the frontiers further.
Not really off OT. Glad for confirmation that we don’t need to spend 2000-3000 (US$?) on a DAC to get good sound that will satisfy most of us.
I can also understand that @Extreme_Boky have other standards, well, maybe extreme standards, and that’s OK. We need people to keep pushing the frontiers further.
Hi FrancoisG
I also avoided progressing with most digital evolution over the past few decades. I was happy to live with my TDA1541A based Rotel 855 cd player and pop in a CD that I owned.
At some point I ended up with an iPhone. I had ripped some of my CDs into iTunes and bought some music online...MP3s where I was not really caring about sound quality.
I spent more time, money and effort on my analog front end and my vinyl collection.
I experimented here and there with downloading some FLAC files but was only able to play them from my laptop’s headphone jack into my system and had to find another player because ITunes won’t even play FLAC files.
Things only changed recently when my Rotel died and I decided I still wanted access to the music I had collected on CD.
I built myself a replacement Shigaclone transport and found a used SMSL M8 DAC in the swap meet to use with it. It sounds OK.
I still missed the sound of the Rotel. I’m currently building my first DAC which is based on the D3 group buy boards that use the TDA1541A.
I have now become more interested in obtaining higher quality digital files such as FLAC and also realized I needed a way to store and play those files whether they are from ripping my own collection or downloads.
To that end, I started researching like you. I found two interesting articles related to digital music servers and digital playback that pushed me in a more simplified direction.
This first article discusses lab tests performed on an Apple iPad Pro and the sound quality that is attainable compared to using external DACs and head phone amps.
iPad Pro Audio Quality & Measurements
I happen to now own the same iPad Pro. I do not use it regularly as a source or for music storage/streaming. I have tried it and it does sound very good.
This second article interested me because I wasn’t interested in a laptop or iPad sitting on top of my system all the time. It explains how to create a “headless” music server using a Mac Mini and related Mac products.
How to build a music server | PS Audio
I liked the idea so much that I decided to buy a refurbished Mac Mini and give it a shot.
For half the price of a new Mini with the same specifications I was able to max it out at 16GB of RAM, get an internal 1TB SSD and a matching external 1TB HDD for backups.
I bought a mid 2010 model. The reason for choosing this older model was because it still came with an internal optical drive that I could use to rip my CDs and because I discovered it actually has an audio jack that is both analog and digital. I am able to use my external DACs if I wish by connecting them with a special 3.5mm to standard Toslink cable.
I will say that I have not tried the Bitperfect software mentioned in the article. One of my family members who is also interested in streaming digital music bought the Bitperfect software to try on his Pro laptop which runs Catalina and appears to be struggling with getting it all to work together. I’m not sure I’m even concerned at this point as all my files are still simply lossless at a standard 44.1kHz sample rate.
Another thing I discovered is that the Airport Express mentioned in the article is unnecessary. I actually had an older one on hand and was not able to get it to work as mentioned in the article. This is because in order to use the remote app that he mentions you need to have the Mini and whatever you are controlling it with connected to the same WiFi network.
I am using an old iPad 2 as a remote. It took some research to figure out how to get an older version of the remote app to install on it. You are only able to get an older version if your device shares your Apple account and the newer version has already been downloaded and installed on another one of your devices.
At this point I have chosen to rip anything into iTunes as AIFF lossless files. In order to play any FLAC downloads I have I have to either convert them to something iTunes plays (AIFF, Apple lossless etc.) or eventually settle on a different player to use on the Mini that will play any of these file types and also offer other perks like playing files from RAM and controlling playback so the files aren’t up or down sampled.
Just figured I’d share my experience. The journey continues. Best of luck with yours!
I also avoided progressing with most digital evolution over the past few decades. I was happy to live with my TDA1541A based Rotel 855 cd player and pop in a CD that I owned.
At some point I ended up with an iPhone. I had ripped some of my CDs into iTunes and bought some music online...MP3s where I was not really caring about sound quality.
I spent more time, money and effort on my analog front end and my vinyl collection.
I experimented here and there with downloading some FLAC files but was only able to play them from my laptop’s headphone jack into my system and had to find another player because ITunes won’t even play FLAC files.
Things only changed recently when my Rotel died and I decided I still wanted access to the music I had collected on CD.
I built myself a replacement Shigaclone transport and found a used SMSL M8 DAC in the swap meet to use with it. It sounds OK.
I still missed the sound of the Rotel. I’m currently building my first DAC which is based on the D3 group buy boards that use the TDA1541A.
I have now become more interested in obtaining higher quality digital files such as FLAC and also realized I needed a way to store and play those files whether they are from ripping my own collection or downloads.
To that end, I started researching like you. I found two interesting articles related to digital music servers and digital playback that pushed me in a more simplified direction.
This first article discusses lab tests performed on an Apple iPad Pro and the sound quality that is attainable compared to using external DACs and head phone amps.
iPad Pro Audio Quality & Measurements
I happen to now own the same iPad Pro. I do not use it regularly as a source or for music storage/streaming. I have tried it and it does sound very good.
This second article interested me because I wasn’t interested in a laptop or iPad sitting on top of my system all the time. It explains how to create a “headless” music server using a Mac Mini and related Mac products.
How to build a music server | PS Audio
I liked the idea so much that I decided to buy a refurbished Mac Mini and give it a shot.
For half the price of a new Mini with the same specifications I was able to max it out at 16GB of RAM, get an internal 1TB SSD and a matching external 1TB HDD for backups.
I bought a mid 2010 model. The reason for choosing this older model was because it still came with an internal optical drive that I could use to rip my CDs and because I discovered it actually has an audio jack that is both analog and digital. I am able to use my external DACs if I wish by connecting them with a special 3.5mm to standard Toslink cable.
I will say that I have not tried the Bitperfect software mentioned in the article. One of my family members who is also interested in streaming digital music bought the Bitperfect software to try on his Pro laptop which runs Catalina and appears to be struggling with getting it all to work together. I’m not sure I’m even concerned at this point as all my files are still simply lossless at a standard 44.1kHz sample rate.
Another thing I discovered is that the Airport Express mentioned in the article is unnecessary. I actually had an older one on hand and was not able to get it to work as mentioned in the article. This is because in order to use the remote app that he mentions you need to have the Mini and whatever you are controlling it with connected to the same WiFi network.
I am using an old iPad 2 as a remote. It took some research to figure out how to get an older version of the remote app to install on it. You are only able to get an older version if your device shares your Apple account and the newer version has already been downloaded and installed on another one of your devices.
At this point I have chosen to rip anything into iTunes as AIFF lossless files. In order to play any FLAC downloads I have I have to either convert them to something iTunes plays (AIFF, Apple lossless etc.) or eventually settle on a different player to use on the Mini that will play any of these file types and also offer other perks like playing files from RAM and controlling playback so the files aren’t up or down sampled.
Just figured I’d share my experience. The journey continues. Best of luck with yours!
Hi Chromenuts,
This is really good stuff at a level I actually comprehend. Thanks for taking the time to write about your experiences; it will certainly help me and others on the same road. The articles you pointed out look good and very useful.
I happen to have a rarely-used 2011 Mac Mini that I could put to use in the way you described. As I try this approach I may come asking for further advice some time.
Thanks again, and best wishes on the rest of your journey.
This is really good stuff at a level I actually comprehend. Thanks for taking the time to write about your experiences; it will certainly help me and others on the same road. The articles you pointed out look good and very useful.
I happen to have a rarely-used 2011 Mac Mini that I could put to use in the way you described. As I try this approach I may come asking for further advice some time.
Thanks again, and best wishes on the rest of your journey.
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I found this DAC kit:
NEW AK4497EQ DAC Decoder Kit Balance Line I2S / DSD Input with Soft Control | eBay
which I can build into an enclosure and use a very good +/-15V power supply (LM317/337 + Elvee's denoiser)
Someone help me decode what I need to use this. It does not appear to have either spdif digital inputs or USB. Is that correct? Only I2S.???
NEW AK4497EQ DAC Decoder Kit Balance Line I2S / DSD Input with Soft Control | eBay
which I can build into an enclosure and use a very good +/-15V power supply (LM317/337 + Elvee's denoiser)
Someone help me decode what I need to use this. It does not appear to have either spdif digital inputs or USB. Is that correct? Only I2S.???
That is correct. If doesn't even have a master clock so you will need to choose a USB board with the understanding that the quality of its clocks will have a substantial effect on the sound quality of your dac. A good USB board will cost roughly as much as the dac board costs.
If you want SPDIF/TOSLINK/AES then you would need to buy another board that can convert those input signals into I2S format.
Depending on your requirements, there is an enormous array of options. On the cheap end, consider my "bedroom system." It is an Amazon Alexa Dot (on sale, $20), a DIY AliExpress chip amp (about $15) + old PC power supply (free), powering a $32 pair of Infinity speakers bought at a thrift shop that were -- mostly -- rehabilitated. For $70 (round up), I have a system that will stream from Amazon music or act as a Bluetooth speaker for my mobile phone, stream from JRiver, and many other options.
Digitize your analog collection? Depends. What are your motivations to archive your old material? In the first place, unless you have extremely rare material, better quality digital versions are available. It'd cost a lot to replace the old analog copies with the digital equivalents, but you don't have to even do that. Amazon music and similar services offer tens of millions of songs and it's likely most of yours are already there. You can stream as much as you like for cheap. You'll need more equipment to digitize. You'll also spend many, many hours. In sum, I'd bet your wasting time and money if you're digitizing your collection.
Digitize your analog collection? Depends. What are your motivations to archive your old material? In the first place, unless you have extremely rare material, better quality digital versions are available. It'd cost a lot to replace the old analog copies with the digital equivalents, but you don't have to even do that. Amazon music and similar services offer tens of millions of songs and it's likely most of yours are already there. You can stream as much as you like for cheap. You'll need more equipment to digitize. You'll also spend many, many hours. In sum, I'd bet your wasting time and money if you're digitizing your collection.
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Thanks but I sincerely hope you are wrong!
My concern is not about new digital music. I have spent a lot of money to buy music I like in digital form, i.e. CD. Are you saying that I have to buy it again? Please clarify.
I especially want to preserve my owned CD’s and digitalized (albeit deficient) CD’s music.
My concern is not about new digital music. I have spent a lot of money to buy music I like in digital form, i.e. CD. Are you saying that I have to buy it again? Please clarify.
I especially want to preserve my owned CD’s and digitalized (albeit deficient) CD’s music.
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