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Are 24bit/192KHz music files really better than the CD standard?
Are 24bit/192KHz music files really better than the CD standard?
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Old 2nd December 2019, 07:59 PM   #131
gpapag is offline gpapag  Greece
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Are 24bit/192KHz music files really better than the CD standard?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Tillotson View Post
Applying the formula and getting the result wrong by a factor of 1000, you mean! How dumb, this is a complete howler of a mistake. The mike preamp obviously overloaded into slewing on a timescale of several ms, and slewing recovery is ringing at about 7kHz.
Thank you Mark for looking into that, you are right I was dumb (microseconds in place of nanoseconds and that went unchecked, no bell rung into my head).

And mondogenerator thank you for the polite hint
Quote:
Originally Posted by mondogenerator View Post
The more puzzling thing is how a 44.1kHz sampled signal can resolve the claimed 7MHz distortion format to be seen in an audio tracker suite.
To resume:
Red areas. Rise time: 0.045ms. BW: 7.8kHz
Orange area. Rise time: 3.36ms. BW: 104Hz
Green area. Rise time: 4.42ms. BW: 79Hz
Blue area. Rise time: 11.61ms. BW: 30Hz

George
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File Type: png corrected BW.png (46.2 KB, 96 views)
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Old 2nd December 2019, 08:30 PM   #132
mondogenerator is offline mondogenerator  England
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I did think the scale was ms, but I cant read it well on this mobile phone! (Besides, I often make silly errors, and I too appreciate a gentle nudge when experiencing a brain fart)


Regarding the Kick drum transient and spectral content; while it's been a while since I examined in detail, I am in no way surprised that 7kHz can be seen, whether due to mic/pre distortion or merely the use of a hard beater, or a combination of both.

Thinking something like Vinnie Paul (Pantera) playing HUGE kick drums with Remo Black skins (heavy) and hard beaters, and 1/16ths.
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Last edited by mondogenerator; 2nd December 2019 at 08:35 PM.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 08:32 PM   #133
cbdb is offline cbdb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markw4 View Post
Beater click can. Googling 'kick beater click 5khz' shows various people are using it.
Thats like saying a rim shot is a snare drum, or piano pedals are part of the piano sound so mic them. If you include the beater squeak you can say a kick drum has 12khz. Im talking about 99.99% of recorded kicks.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 08:37 PM   #134
cbdb is offline cbdb  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gpapag View Post
Thank you Mark for looking into that, you are right I was dumb (microseconds in place of nanoseconds and that went unchecked, no bell rung into my head).

And mondogenerator thank you for the polite hint


To resume:
Red areas. Rise time: 0.045ms. BW: 7.8kHz
Orange area. Rise time: 3.36ms. BW: 104Hz
Green area. Rise time: 4.42ms. BW: 79Hz
Blue area. Rise time: 11.61ms. BW: 30Hz

George
Look at other kick drums, that one is an aberration. Funny how this aberation turns into a thread like this, where it becomes proof that all kick drums have high freqs.
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Old 2nd December 2019, 08:40 PM   #135
mondogenerator is offline mondogenerator  England
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I know few people who would mic up the struck surface of a kick.

But everyone mics up snares top and bottom, and AFAIAC, a rim shot IS a snare.

Some of those heavy skins tend to sound clicks when you spank them, and then have to EQ the 2nd harm Boom out, but they're so heavy the fundamental is almost below audibility

But that sound IS genre specific.

I could post an interesting Gabba Kick with far more harmonics...
It's not natural, and for effect, but then most music production leans toward effects and not realism.

Realism is a niche thing

The worst popular recording I can think of, that I own, is Police "Walking on the moon". The most awful clipping of Hihats. I mean why???

I cant believe knowledgable people can dismiss the premise of a thread, asserting that harmonics stop at X frequency, in all cases, when any audiophile can point out the vast majority of sound engineers dont engineer for realism in any way - neither do all drummers set their kit up to sound any way other than they desire, overdamped non vented kicks, for example, sound very clicky to the human ear, audience side. Some want Pink Floyd, Bee Gees muddy thuddy kick. Some want as clicky as possible, so you can hear the drummers 1/16th and 1/32nd ghost notes, in machine like pentameter.
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Last edited by mondogenerator; 2nd December 2019 at 09:06 PM.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 12:53 AM   #136
Bill Coltrane is offline Bill Coltrane  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mondogenerator View Post

I cant believe knowledgable people can dismiss the premise of a thread, asserting that harmonics stop at X frequency

Ultra sonic frequenties are real.
But because the human hearing mechanism is a mass/spring system at its core, there is an upper frequency limit of what humans can perceive.
150 years of solid experimentation has set that limit to about 20kHz for people over 20 years old.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 12:56 AM   #137
Bill Coltrane is offline Bill Coltrane  Netherlands
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The classic strawman argument combined with cognitive dissonance.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 02:39 AM   #138
Markw4 is online now Markw4  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Coltrane View Post
The classic strawman argument combined with cognitive dissonance.
Ethan's assumptions are flawed. Not questioning his sincerity, he probably doesn't realize everything he is implicitly assuming. Many researchers make the same kinds of mistakes.

Same for you. Sincere, but you don't know what's wrong with Ethan's two tone example, do you?
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Old 3rd December 2019, 03:21 AM   #139
Bill Coltrane is offline Bill Coltrane  Netherlands
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No.
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Old 3rd December 2019, 07:38 PM   #140
Pano is offline Pano  United States
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Are 24bit/192KHz music files really better than the CD standard?
Quote:
Originally Posted by 6vheater View Post
*I don't believe this for 1 second.
You not believing it doesn't make it false.

Quote:
What amused me, between the original 24bit recording and the high rate mp3 version the "audiophiles" consistently chose the mp3 version as the one they preferred.
I have not found that consistently, but often enough. Many people will choose the MP3 because the vocals are warmer and more present. If you point out the lack of ambient details in the MP3, most people can hear it.
Quote:
It also reminds me of the blind tests of Stradivarius v modern violins, where the soloists used, repeatedly gave the Strad the worst marks.
You should go back and read that again. It's also well worth reading the follow up comments from the people involved in the test. It was nowhere near so clear cut.
Quote:
The ringing and unpleasantness of mpeg audio in critical frequency zones is something that constantly suprises me,
Especially bad on brushed cymbals so frequently used in Jazz. At low bit rates it can be unbearable. At some of the super low rates used for satellite audio talk channels, I can't even stand the hear the voices.
Quote:
as well as the sheer amount of analog compression used.
The loudness wars have made it hard for me to buy new music. I find something I like, but it's so compressed I can't stand listening for more than a song length.
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