Multiple, if not dozens or more, seconds of music are buffered within milliseconds before playback starts. Please explain how jitter introduced during transfer in either ethernet medium or devices it passes, before entering the first of likely several buffers, can propagate and influence the sound once played? Does it ripple through time?
There may be measurable jitter *once decoded/converted to actual signals* but what is measured surely can't originate in the switches or cabling, right?
There may be measurable jitter *once decoded/converted to actual signals* but what is measured surely can't originate in the switches or cabling, right?
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THE DIVIDE
And this is what separates those who listen, feel, and sense beyond those that don't -or can't. Simply stated, some people possess qualities completely foreign to others lacking in such abilities.
The term "audiophile (Ethernet Switch)" should simply suggest an item/product (concept) that has been discovered to influence SQ -sometimes, often times in my experience, profoundly. and thus, further investigations/products are brought forth. Yet with that said, nothing to my mind can account for the ridiculous pricing set for some of these modified off-the-shelf examples.
Over 90% of the very noticeable SQ distinctions brought forth in my experiments came from the plethora of Ethernet cables, switches, AC power cable I had/have in abundance at my residence -not "audiophile" approved wares.
And the (repeatable/blind) SQ distinctions between off-the-shelf/generic USB Ethernet and USB cables has proven (yet again) enlightening.
Let me suggest a quality, generic CAT 5e cable to replace any of the CAT 6-7/8 specified cables one may be using. And then listen. Dido for USB cable, and generic Ethernet switches. There will be one/combination that will simply sound better; i.e. more natural/flowing.
pj
And this is what separates those who listen, feel, and sense beyond those that don't -or can't. Simply stated, some people possess qualities completely foreign to others lacking in such abilities.
The term "audiophile (Ethernet Switch)" should simply suggest an item/product (concept) that has been discovered to influence SQ -sometimes, often times in my experience, profoundly. and thus, further investigations/products are brought forth. Yet with that said, nothing to my mind can account for the ridiculous pricing set for some of these modified off-the-shelf examples.
Over 90% of the very noticeable SQ distinctions brought forth in my experiments came from the plethora of Ethernet cables, switches, AC power cable I had/have in abundance at my residence -not "audiophile" approved wares.
And the (repeatable/blind) SQ distinctions between off-the-shelf/generic USB Ethernet and USB cables has proven (yet again) enlightening.
Let me suggest a quality, generic CAT 5e cable to replace any of the CAT 6-7/8 specified cables one may be using. And then listen. Dido for USB cable, and generic Ethernet switches. There will be one/combination that will simply sound better; i.e. more natural/flowing.
pj
Not certain about this. The vast majority of rabid objectivists have zero interest in sound. They would never even consider the notion of listening to what effects cables/switches may have. And why should they when it does not make any logical sense?
I suggest you read the IEEE 802.3 standards before making claims about the possibility of ethernet switch and CAT X cable audibility.
A true digital guru who makes stuff that isn’t very good (maybe his recent stuff is better). But, I guess I shouldn’t say that because that’s just what the measurements say.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence (except in the case of audio Woodoo)
Reading standards affects hearing?
Or merely prejudices your brain to reject reality?
I find reading standards helps to understand how complicated things work.
Blind ... -I'll say.
As 'Blind' as it gets; throw in an Ethernet cable (switch/USB cable etc.)/wait ten minutes, listen passively -go about the room doing different thing. Swap out for another, repeat.
IF one/same cable/change repeatedly offers up clearly better sound, there's your Blind/ABX test. Repeatedly. Day, after week, after month/year.
I have 40 years of (dedicated) hi-if experience, have set-up & sold, traded, compared, evaluated innumerable components and spoken to thousands of (hi-if) people, attended trade shows regularly all the while remaining committed to evaluating/confirming the utter importance of every single component/factor in the hi-if chain.
How about you ? Experience? Years (or hours) you've invested ?
pj
As 'Blind' as it gets; throw in an Ethernet cable (switch/USB cable etc.)/wait ten minutes, listen passively -go about the room doing different thing. Swap out for another, repeat.
IF one/same cable/change repeatedly offers up clearly better sound, there's your Blind/ABX test. Repeatedly. Day, after week, after month/year.
I have 40 years of (dedicated) hi-if experience, have set-up & sold, traded, compared, evaluated innumerable components and spoken to thousands of (hi-if) people, attended trade shows regularly all the while remaining committed to evaluating/confirming the utter importance of every single component/factor in the hi-if chain.
How about you ? Experience? Years (or hours) you've invested ?
pj
Waffle. No logic, no reasoning, no thinking, just smoke and hot air.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. And the one making the claim is the one to prove it or at the very minimum make it seem probable.
Waffling won't convince those who think about these things, but will stop the wafflers from thinking about it.
By the way you should also read up on blind testing, if you are interested, which you seem to be. Your current understanding is, shall we be polity, lacking.
Jan
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That's what I am trying to figure out. Just what kind of mental block does someone need to have to not understand this?
Even if you chose to use an old Ethernet hub (not a switch), which has a single collision domain, on a really congested network, adding massive delay and possible resending of Ethernet frames, the digital data would end up in the buffer of the player precisely as it should. There would be zero difference in the data compared to if it was played from a local hard drive.
This thread is insane. Anyone arguing that a switch can make your music sound different is either way too high, has fooled themselves for some unknown reason, or has very low cognitive ability. One other possibility - they are trying to make money selling audiophool switches.
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Just lobbing a spanner in here....
Could it be that first order effects (i.e. the validity/integrity of the delivered data) might not be the area that has influence?
Could it be that second order effects (i.e. the switch's influence on the local power supply noise, grounding schemes etc. and the resultant interactions with the audio system under test) are, in fact, the variables that have influence?
If you can hear a difference that is repeatable and you can't see a reason, then you are looking in the wrong place
Could it be that first order effects (i.e. the validity/integrity of the delivered data) might not be the area that has influence?
Could it be that second order effects (i.e. the switch's influence on the local power supply noise, grounding schemes etc. and the resultant interactions with the audio system under test) are, in fact, the variables that have influence?
If you can hear a difference that is repeatable and you can't see a reason, then you are looking in the wrong place
Just lobbing a spanner in here....
Could it be that first order effects (i.e. the validity/integrity of the delivered data) might not be the area that has influence?
Yes. 100% correct. Actually - not "might".
Possibly. However, if the audio system in question is so sensitive to other devices plugged into the house wiring then one would be much better to re-design and re-build the audio system. If replacing other household components is the answer, then one should go right ahead and replace their furnace, AC unit, and toaster with audiophile grade units that don't cause their audiophile system so many problems.
If you can hear a difference that is repeatable and you can't see a reason, then you are looking in the wrong place
People hear what they want to hear. Many of these people who believe an Ethernet switch can make a difference to sound quality are the same ones who believe that little stones under their speaker cables make a difference. Some of these same people then amplify their audio with amplifiers that create upwards of 10% THD (second order!) after taking pains to ensure the capacitors in their Ethernet switch are "audio grade".
Bizzaro-world.
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That is technically possible. But applying common sense can help to find out if that is the case. Like swapping parts of the system, in a double blind test setup.
The problem with that is that it is cumbersome, needs lots of people and time and good preparation, so it almost never gets done or not done right to be trustworthy in a statistical sense.
What gets done is the kind of BS mentioned above about throwing in a cable, leaving the room for 10 mins, throwing in another cable or such similar useless stuff. Because that can be done by one guy, with almost no preparation and zero understanding of the involved issues and zero trustworthy results.
It is what it is. And good for business ;-)
Jan
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When you hook that thing up in your network, your brain is playing you tricks. It (your brain) wants it to be good. It's a mind trick. Nothing wrong with that. Placebo is cheap (medicine) and works well.
The sad thing in audio is that some fool others to pay quite some money for nothing. This is wrong I believe.
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