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Replacing a Brushed Motor with a Brushless Motor - Advice needed.
Replacing a Brushed Motor with a Brushless Motor - Advice needed.
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Old 19th July 2015, 05:35 PM   #1
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Germany
Default Replacing a Brushed Motor with a Brushless Motor - Advice needed.

In many, many traverse mechanisms, this motor is used as a spindle motor:

RF-300FA

Used in Sony, Philips, Sanyo Mechanisms.

A cheapo, i. e not suitable for heavy clamps. At least not durable
for decades. (For years, yes)

As far as i know, brushless motors are more reliable and sturdy. Never seen one with shafts thinner than 3mm. They were always the first
choice in first CD-Players and also first generation ROM drives before the companies cut corners.

Replacing a brushed motor with a brushless is not an easy task.
But I would like to give it a try.
As far as I know, in the world of RC-Cars and planes, there are voltage to PWM converters for doing this.

I am good in milling, soldering and buying parts - but very, very bad in designing.

Anone who can help me in designing a converter?

I assume, this mod will be very versatile and could be used in many players, if a small brushless motor (at least in diameter) can be found.
Maybe the Shigaclone guys could also benefit from this...

All the best,
Salar
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Old 19th July 2015, 06:01 PM   #2
Andrew Eckhardt is offline Andrew Eckhardt  United States
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Join Date: Nov 2005
If I were to do this I would probably design a linear, sine wave three phase driver. Nothing plucked from the RC field will be like that. Since you're looking at very low output power the loss would hardly be significant, while the noise reduction may be. On the flip side, a better motor is probably a lot easier, even if it had brushes or self contained electronic commutation. If you can machine yourself then shaft size is not too big of a problem. You will probably have to entirely re-tune the servo if the dynamic performance of the new motor is much different, which is probably more complicated than you want. You'd also like a motor with very low torque ripple, like a coreless rotor type or something. Just using a wimpy motor sort of helps that automatically. A lot of CDROM drives use comparitively beefy 3PH brushless spindle motors.

Last edited by Andrew Eckhardt; 19th July 2015 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 21st July 2015, 03:47 PM   #3
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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I found this thread @ diyaudio. There is a solution for Philips mechanisms:

BLDC motor upgrade board for CDM9/CDM12 transport or CD player
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Old 21st July 2015, 04:22 PM   #4
tauro0221 is offline tauro0221  United States
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Location: Victoria,TX
Hi,
I just finished replacing the worn out motor of my Garrard 35 and it is in a beta test right now. After tried some different motors I decided to see if I can replace it using a stepper motor and a micro. I am using a reflecting sensor, a small reflecting metal strip glued to the platen as a marker and an stepper motor. Used the micro to read the index marker every time the platen do a revolution and calculate the rpm of the platen and display it. Mounting it a bracket used to mount a camera in a Drone Helicopter. I used it to eliminated any vibration coming from the stepper motor. At beginning since the spindle was about 1/4 inches the stepper motor was whining due the high frequency 1000 kHz. Replacing the spindle with a larger pulley I was able to dropped the frequency to 622 KHZ and the whining when away. Now the system it is running very good and it is easy to implement it in any turntable. Attached are some pictures showing the implementation. The only problem it is that you need to know how to program the micro. The software it is in basic using the Zbasic micro. Total cost of the project it is about $75 dollars.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2015_0418J10_camara_picture0001.JPG (196.6 KB, 138 views)
File Type: jpg 2015_0418J10_camara_picture0005.JPG (204.1 KB, 134 views)
File Type: jpg 2015_0418J10_camara_picture0006.JPG (202.8 KB, 134 views)
File Type: jpg 2015_0418J10_camara_picture0007.JPG (187.0 KB, 134 views)
File Type: jpg 2015_0418J10_camara_picture0008.JPG (202.3 KB, 134 views)
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Old 26th July 2015, 10:52 AM   #5
basreflex is offline basreflex  Spain
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thorens TD125 uses a brushless motor, with sinewave drive, schematics can be found on the web, or on threaads on diyaudio
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Old 30th July 2015, 12:27 PM   #6
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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I made a comparison between the Sony CDP-X5000 and CDP-X3000.
The X5000 uses a brushless spindle motor, the X3000 a brushed one.
Could anyone explain the differences in the circuitry? The used almost the same IC´s. Hope I got the signal directions correct. I do not understand the
function of the hall elements LT140SZ. Unfortunately I did not find any datasheets...
Attached Images
File Type: jpg CDP-X5000-Servoboard.jpg (841.7 KB, 34 views)
File Type: jpg CDP-X3000-Servoboard.jpg (564.8 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg x5000-xa7es-xa50es-discmotor_407813.jpg (877.0 KB, 25 views)
File Type: jpg x5000-xa7es-xa50es-discmotor_407810.jpg (437.7 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg CDP-X5000_Parts_List_BSL_Motor.jpg (153.0 KB, 17 views)
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Old 30th July 2015, 06:57 PM   #7
artegagt is offline artegagt  Estonia
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datasheetcatalog.com sharp LT140 data is available

Hall elements sensing position of spindel magnet and circuit switches between coils. Whole motor circuit is too complicated to copy.
Better option is to use one IC solution.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg expl.JPG (43.9 KB, 27 views)
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Old 30th July 2015, 11:13 PM   #8
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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Hello artegagt
thanks a lot for the proposal and the effort! "Expl.jpeg" is a description
of the CDP-X5000 circuitry? What function does the bridge have?
And how could an IC solution look like?

LT140 Datasheet is attached...
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Sharp LT140.pdf (26.5 KB, 4 views)

Last edited by Salar; 30th July 2015 at 11:20 PM.
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Old 31st July 2015, 12:07 AM   #9
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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I case anyone wants the X5000 / X3000 circuits in higher resolution:

http://www.filedropper.com/x5000x3000servoboards

Sorry, you´ll have to answer a captcha and it will take some seconds until you can download...

Last edited by Salar; 31st July 2015 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 31st July 2015, 07:55 AM   #10
artegagt is offline artegagt  Estonia
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Yes, 5000.
I tried to explain,but.. as I see circuit.
My scetch is only about power stage of spindel motor.
Look inner stages of BA6297. There is H-bridge output.

I'm playing with a three-phase BLDC from old dvd rom.
You intend to use motor from 5000 ?
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