This compact disc player from NAD uses the SONY mechanism KSM213CCM with laser pickup KSS-213C. The compact disc turns on, two times in CD/CDR mode and two times in CD/RW mode. RF signal is normal while the "read-in" try. But TOC wasn't detected.
A new mechanism doesn't change the situation and the old mechanism so as the old flex connector from C525BEE works fine in an other compact disc player device.
BTW - the model C525BEE haven't no longer agjustment devices for tracking and focus gain/offset. Soldering is already PBfree (lead free).
What failure is most likely on the PCB? Perhaps certainly electrolytics?
A new mechanism doesn't change the situation and the old mechanism so as the old flex connector from C525BEE works fine in an other compact disc player device.
BTW - the model C525BEE haven't no longer agjustment devices for tracking and focus gain/offset. Soldering is already PBfree (lead free).
What failure is most likely on the PCB? Perhaps certainly electrolytics?
Hi, Did you remove the anti static short at the laser module?
Did the laser turn on and the spindle spin when trying to read?
Did the laser go to home position near the inner part or starting
part of cd?
It is possible the laser forcusing IC is bad or the laser driver IC
too.You need the service manual for this.Could also be a bad spindle
motor ,the resistance should be about 12 ohms. Good luck.Also check
for solder joint breaks.
Did the laser turn on and the spindle spin when trying to read?
Did the laser go to home position near the inner part or starting
part of cd?
It is possible the laser forcusing IC is bad or the laser driver IC
too.You need the service manual for this.Could also be a bad spindle
motor ,the resistance should be about 12 ohms. Good luck.Also check
for solder joint breaks.
No. Adjustment present only for APC (laser unit, on board) and display illumination brightness (R709, main PCB - btw: the brighter, the louder the unwanted mechanical sine wave pip from display).
Follow chips are in use:
U201: BA6392FP, 4-channel BTL driver for CD players (Rohm)
BA6392FP Datasheet pdf - Optical Disc LSIs > Motor/Actuator driver > CD/CD-ROM driver(4ch) - ROHM
U301: CXD3017, CD Digital Signal Processor with Built-in Digital Servo and DAC (Sony)
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/sony/e6801333.pdf
U302: PCM1710U, DAC
U101: 620P57 Photo diode signal processor (for me unknown type - could be also other because very hard to read from chip surface)
U401: operating MCU in QFP outline without type number, firmware version according sticker on it: c521/525 05262006
If there are breaks or GND short in the connections for data exchange between U301 and U401 (PCB wires or internal bonding of both chips itself, P1-P9 page 116 datasheet CXD3017Q), the fixing of exactly error reason is probably hard to realize.
Yes for all.
unlikely; mechanism include spindle motor works fine by other cd player model
Yes, but not from NAD (not well troubleshooting descriptions) but from a Sony cd player model, where the same CXD3017Q PCM decoder is in use. Who knows such a model?
BTW - The NAD C521BEE could be use the same topology in that aera, from where comes that error - go to
http://noresin.com/files/NAD C521BEE.pdf
U101 here is CXA2581
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheets/320/199475_DS.pdf
and U401 follow: Mitsubishi M38223 E4HP4
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheets2/10/1022028_1.pdf
http://www.datasheetcatalog.com/datasheets_pdf/M/3/8/2/M38223M4.shtml
Last edited:
Differences between NAD 521 and 525
NAD C 525 BEE - audio - Magnus.de
http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/3090
http://audiojunkies.com/forum/cd-players/1116-c525-bee.html
http://hifigoteborg.se/nad_manuals_self/C521BEE.pdf (complete manual)
NAD C 525 BEE - audio - Magnus.de
http://www.superfi.co.uk/index.cfm/page/moreinfo.cfm/Product_ID/3090
http://audiojunkies.com/forum/cd-players/1116-c525-bee.html
http://hifigoteborg.se/nad_manuals_self/C521BEE.pdf (complete manual)
Last edited:
Hard to say. Does the pickup return to its rest position if you manually move it outward and then power up?
You say the RF is OK ? Does the disc appear to run at correct speed while trying to read TOC.
Are all supplies correct and clean as measured at their destintions ?
Is the tracking coil drive to the pickup working OK ?
You now the mech is OK. If the RF is good and reaching its destination cleanly then it does sound like the servos/data processor are not synced. Spillage ?
You say the RF is OK ? Does the disc appear to run at correct speed while trying to read TOC.
Are all supplies correct and clean as measured at their destintions ?
Is the tracking coil drive to the pickup working OK ?
You now the mech is OK. If the RF is good and reaching its destination cleanly then it does sound like the servos/data processor are not synced. Spillage ?
The last is most likely the case. Also the not correct tracking coil drive could be the reason, but if I cut the Tracking signal-PCB wire, the behaviour is other (disc speed goes higher and higher).
About
Videohifi Forum
I note, that Sony's last generation cd player (XE-series) uses not the last generation decoder chips - in use is the CXD2545Q and CXD2585Q.
In the Sony car hifi changer model CDX-602/21 and CDX-602/17 the CXD3017Q is in use (together with LA6576L, LB1930M and BA8272), as to read about
http://lamson.dnsdojo.com/DATALIST/A-Z-PDF/06079.txt
but this model uses also the CXD3017
http://elbase.ru/app/webroot/files/...%ED%E8%EA%E0/SONY/SONY%20HCD-CPX1/HCDCPX1.pdf
Last edited:
I can't think of anything else to try... maybe it is spillage. If the disc speed increases with the tracking disconnected it sounds like that part is working OK.
The old engineers trick (well one of mine
) of using damp fingers to try and "pull" any oscillator etc ... just to see if you can get it to lock comes to mind.
Dunno... would need it hooked up on the bench to investigate further.
The old engineers trick (well one of mine
) of using damp fingers to try and "pull" any oscillator etc ... just to see if you can get it to lock comes to mind.Dunno... would need it hooked up on the bench to investigate further.
Indeed - that was the first error of this compact disc player: Not present lens driving for goes up and down and therefore no FOK signal and no turn on the disc. After resolder this transistors the above descripted is to observe
Such things sometime CD devices may bring back to life - unfortunately not in this case. My estimate is the MCU U401 itself or shortings arround this; I note extremly bad leadfree solder work arround this 80pin LQFP-MCU (12✕12mm plastic body).The old engineers trick (well one of mine
P.S.
I don't understand this term:
.........maybe it is spillage
Last edited:
hi tief, have you tried using another cd mechanism to your nad player,if you have tried and it works the problem is with the old cd mechanism but if the new cd mechanism also does not work. the problem maybe on the mcu like what have you said. you may resolder all its legs or replace it a with new one.
I see; in this case this wasn't happen.
NAD's TROUBLESHOOTING GUIDE isn't helpful, because there is no distinction whether the CD turns on or not (see attachement).
By Sony and some other CD player service manuals there is described, how I can perform the conversion into the service mode.
Perhaps this is also possible by NAD, even if there isn't to read about this in his service manual.
P.S. two other NAD devices (1 pc same model, 1x C521) with same error I will get next week. Therefore I will try to get the same model in right condition for comparative measurements.
Last edited:
Friday I get two other devices with same error as to read by post #1, one from the same model and one similar (C521BEE)
By both devices I desolder the CXD3017Q (PCM prozessor) and the M38223E (custom made MCU from Mitsubishi) completly. After remove the lead-free solder residues from the pCB and the IC's itself and after carefully cleaning this aeras I resold the same ICs with normal leaded solder.
Now both cd player works fine.
The same work I do by the exemplar, which I get first (shortly before start this thread). Unfortunately here I haven't success. The same is to observe as mentioned by post #1.
No of this three NAD devices are from me, and therefore I cannot risk to replace both ICs in succession from the faulty device in the worked device (otherwise I would get a corroborating evidence resp. fixing, which devise is the reason).
How can I clearly establish without this step, whether Sony's CXD3017Q is the reason for the still present fault or Mitsubishi's custom made MCU for the operating instructions ?
The problem is, if there is only one interrupt or GND short between the CPU Interface of CXD3017 and the MCU (nine leads) still the same error details are to observe (except the clock line).
Entering into the service mode would be helpful, but how can I do this?
This hifi system from Sony uses also the CXD3017 (Service Manual):
http://elbase.ru/app/webroot/files/...%ED%E8%EA%E0/SONY/SONY%20HCD-CPX1/HCDCPX1.pdf
Thank you therefore.
Last edited:
I don't understand this, because the marked terms I have never heard before.
Perhaps you mean the variable resistor of the APC unit (APC = automatic power control of the laser light from LD about the MD).
By cd player produced later than 1985 this variable resistor is "on-board" by the most optical pick ups. And produced before 1985 this resistor is often to find on the main PCB near by the RF amp unit.
Now the device mentioned by post #1 works also fine. There was an easy reason and nevertheless "hard to find" (with help of comparison measurements by scope by an other device of the same model).
There was an unwanted but relatively small transition resistance (contact resistance) between PIN18 (TE) of the RF-IC U101 (CXA2581N/620P57) and R220/R218 (goes to SE/TE input of CXD3017Q).
Thus the TE signal at this point was approximately 60 percent of the right value. If there had been a completly PCB wire break, it would be an easy task to fix this failure. Unfortunately the PCB wire oxidizes near by PIN18 of the RF-IC U101.
After create a completly break of this wire, the behaviour while try of read-in wasn't different than before.
After bending up of this PIN and free wiring repair was done.
The reason for this corrosion effect isn't clear for me because no bad caps are present near by this aera.
However - thank you very much for your ideas and support.
Last edited:
I have a NAD 521i. It was lying idle for the better part of 5 years till I decided to use it again. I didn't use it since the mains was configured for 110 Volts and I live in a place which has 230V mains supply and therefore had to use step down transformer and was not very happy with the arrangement.
Last week I decided to modify it internally so that it it could natively accept 230V directly. Opened the top cover and had a close look at the transformer PCB and the live PCB. After studying it carefully I removed 2 jumpers on the transformer PCB and connected one that was missing, effectively putting the 2 primary coils in series configuration compared to the earlier parallel configuration.That was all that was needed. The NAD powered up. No problems.
But the tray would not open. Discovered that the loading drive belt was broken. Replaced that and the loading mech was functional again.
Loaded a CD and it read the TOC. That was great. Pressed play and nothing happened for a long time. Could hear the lens squealing trying to track the CD but of no avail. It would just not play. I then tried another CD. This time after some squeals it worked. Out of 10 cd's it plays only one or two.
All original cd's no CDR's. Reads TOC and then stops. Does not play any tracks.
Replaced the Optical block which is incidentally the same KSS-213C. No improvement. Same symptoms.
Replaced the eletrolytics C105-C110 & C229, C226 but of no avail.
I am tempted to replace C212, 27pf which form the RC circuit for the tracking servo. Not done that yet.
What I have noticed is that when the lens is trying to track the CD and is squealing the IC U201 BA6392 becomes VERY HOT to touch at around the tracking pin outs PIN16 & PIN17. When it is not tracking the IC is at normal temperature.
Any suggestions as to what else could be the problem.
Like tiefbassuebertr I see that there is a lot of flux residue on my pcb and will give it a through wash with IPA to see if will help things.
My case differs slightly from yours that it reads the TOC and then does not read tracks on 80% of my cd's.
What could be the problem? Am dying to get this done with so that I can listen to the NAD once again.
Last week I decided to modify it internally so that it it could natively accept 230V directly. Opened the top cover and had a close look at the transformer PCB and the live PCB. After studying it carefully I removed 2 jumpers on the transformer PCB and connected one that was missing, effectively putting the 2 primary coils in series configuration compared to the earlier parallel configuration.That was all that was needed. The NAD powered up. No problems.
But the tray would not open. Discovered that the loading drive belt was broken. Replaced that and the loading mech was functional again.
Loaded a CD and it read the TOC. That was great. Pressed play and nothing happened for a long time. Could hear the lens squealing trying to track the CD but of no avail. It would just not play. I then tried another CD. This time after some squeals it worked. Out of 10 cd's it plays only one or two.
All original cd's no CDR's. Reads TOC and then stops. Does not play any tracks.
Replaced the Optical block which is incidentally the same KSS-213C. No improvement. Same symptoms.
Replaced the eletrolytics C105-C110 & C229, C226 but of no avail.
I am tempted to replace C212, 27pf which form the RC circuit for the tracking servo. Not done that yet.
What I have noticed is that when the lens is trying to track the CD and is squealing the IC U201 BA6392 becomes VERY HOT to touch at around the tracking pin outs PIN16 & PIN17. When it is not tracking the IC is at normal temperature.
Any suggestions as to what else could be the problem.
Like tiefbassuebertr I see that there is a lot of flux residue on my pcb and will give it a through wash with IPA to see if will help things.
My case differs slightly from yours that it reads the TOC and then does not read tracks on 80% of my cd's.
What could be the problem? Am dying to get this done with so that I can listen to the NAD once again.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.