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Sony X5000 troubleshooting
Sony X5000 troubleshooting
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Old 15th January 2014, 10:39 AM   #231
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Germany
One question:
How can I rise the DC Component drerived from the EF Signal, to make the sled motor react sooner?

Why:
Letīs assume the RF Amp on the laser is prone to temperature. So the DC component is off in the beginning on cold days.
When I monitor the gears, I can see that they act in small steps. About every two seconds, the gear makes a step forward sometimes with a balancing movement. Can be very well monitored t the sledīs motor gear, because it has the highest ratio. As far as I remember, this "stepping" is normal in every CD-Player. The lens reaches itīs (predefined?) horizontal limit, the resulting DC offset gives a signal to the sled motor īs amplifier.
What I want to achieve is that this steps happen sooner and more often, so that the lens does not have to travel too far. I assume adjusting E_F Balance has nothing to do with it...?
Any help in this matter is appreciated, I can also send the service manual if needed.
(But there is link earlier in this thread)
All the best,
Salar
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Old 17th January 2014, 09:05 AM   #232
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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On pages 17 to 19 on this thread we were -in short - talking about raising the the Gain of the opamp that drives the sled motor. (There are also datasheets on this pages) Changing the value of the feedback /input resistors R136/R136 did not help.
But the positive and negative input signals are are also attanuated with resistors R131 to R134. As far as I understand, the ratio is 2:1
R131+R133: 66K R135:33K
R132+R134: 66K R136:33K
So if I altered the value of R131 and R132, I could rise the gain as well?
Thanks for any input,
Salar
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Old 8th February 2014, 11:18 AM   #233
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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Things have improved:
I swapped all 0.5% tolerance resistors between
IC 101, opamp ICs 102,104,105 to 0.1% types.

Those resistors are in the signal paths for the sled and spindle motors.
With about 12 degrees centigrade today, clicking is almost gone.
Two or three clicks in 10 Minutes.

I do not think that using 0.1% instead of 0.5% made the improvement.

Tolerances are not printed on SMD resistors with 3 digits and 3 digits values are normally used for 5% tolerance resistors!

So I guess Sony did probably use the wrong tolerance, 5% instead of 0,5% as being stated in the service manual.

So next step is raising gain for the spindle and sled motor.

Any advise on which resistors I should convert to trimmers?

All the best,
Salar

Last edited by Salar; 8th February 2014 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 16th February 2014, 09:38 PM   #234
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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I guess the problem got solved.
8 degrees Celsius (46F) and no clicking!

Hope it well get a bit colder before this winter ends, but 8 degrees and flawless playback is not bad!

The cause for cold-related clicking must have been the circuitry driving the disc motor. As I wrote before, I replaced 0.5% tolerance resistors in the sled /focus /disc-drive with 0.1% tolerance types. I did not expect any benefit from this upgrade but the clicking is now gone.
I guess Sony did not use 0.5% resistors as being stated in the service manual.

In contrast to standard resistors, SMD resistors have no markings for tolerances - thus a fault can be easily made.

So if any cold - related problem occurs, one should check the disk-drive circuitry.

I think the sled motor is not the cause. I did put some sheets of plastic to keep some distance between the flexible board and the servo PCB. But this mod made unintentionally stick the sled a bit, the sled motor had to use more force to keep the sled moving.

I did discover this flaw from my modification today - but the clicking symptoms did not change at all, and on the other hand the click-free resistor replacement also works with this flaw, so the sled was probably never involved in the clicking problem.

I did also oil the bronze bearing of the disc motorīs rotor assembly, it is part #808 on page 40 of the service manual.
I did use an oil especially for bearings. This might have helped as well but because the clicking did not change over a decade I assume dry bearings also were not the cause.

But the bearing of the rotor assembly might be a future problem - is has some play and if I push the shaft to one side, I can not turn it so easily - so the bearing might be worn out.
I do not see any kind of vibration observing the heavy brass pulley when the disc rotates.

Again I think the relatively loose fit of the shaft in the bearing is not the cause for the clicking in cold temperatures.

I also have an aluminium pulley which weights half of the brass pulley, but with half of the weight to move, symptoms did not change at all before the resistor-mod was done.

Obtaining a bearing for the Ø 6mm shaft of the rotor assembly should be easy, outer diameter of the bearing is 10mm. I was not able to determine the length, because the three Philips screws #8 of the base unit section are stuck. I applied some tiny drops of oil on their heads and hope it will creep in the gaps over time so I can unscrew the asembly later to take a look.
But the slide base assembly, where the bearing is pressed in is made of plastic so I have no idea how to swap the bearing in the future.

The whole rotor assembly rests on a brass bearing #823 It has an odd outer diameter, only 7mm.
I once read somewhere that the X5000 has "ruby bearings", probably this is it. Looks like the rotor assembly is much designed like we know from record players

All in all, having put so many time and effort to make the X5000 play at any temperature (like any other CD-player) I am disappointed by the built quality of the CDP-X5000.

I dis not use it much in 17 years, letīs say 5 years of of constant use.

But the often lit filaments of the vacuum display (like the ever lit "0") faded early, after about two years. I have displays more than 20 years of age with no sign of fading at all.

The base unit and the gear are mate of plastic. The gears one below the other have some play.
Could have easily been solved by using split gears which get a tight fit by using springs.

Using pro-looking Allen screws for the casing but not for the mechanical parts where grip is really needed

The sturdy-looking Ø6mm bearings seem to wear too soon, never had this problem with Ø2mm bearings in $2 Mabuchi motors normally used for ordinary CD mechanisms. One reason to buy this player was the assumption that the brass pulley demanded a sturdy transport mechanism - but this fixed pickup thing was puffery by Sony anyway…

So next maintenance work will be finding a bearing and replacing the original one - i only hope it is pressed into the base assembly and not molded into it…
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Old 16th February 2014, 10:01 PM   #235
dacen is offline dacen  Norway
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Congrats! I hope the fault will remain absent for you. Crossing my fingers.
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Old 17th February 2014, 09:54 AM   #236
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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Hello dacen, thank you!
But now Iīll need to look for a bearing with 6mm inner/10mm outer diameter!
It must be feared that if I wait too long,
the bearing #823 on page 40 of the service manual (carrying the weight of the assembly) will also wear out ...

I guess, bearing #823 will not be so easy to obtain, looks special:
(Just for the record: Flange of bearing #823 has an assumed diameter of 7mm, about 1,5 to 2mm height. Bottom has about 4mm diameter and maybe 1 mm height.
Seems to be gluedt into the bottom plate. This is what I was able to measure without disassembly. No inner diameter known
)

Do you observe little horizontal play of the rotor assembly as well? Not easy to check, because the whole base unit and sled assembly are not stiff...

Last edited by Salar; 17th February 2014 at 10:06 AM.
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Old 26th January 2017, 09:07 PM   #237
sony ta f6b is offline sony ta f6b
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Default sony cdp x-5000

hai salar

did you make anny improvements in the last time ?

i have also one , this one is clicking mostley in the first track a lot
but not every two seconds, it is more random
and not only clicks but also clacks that means high clicks
and more low clacks sometimes louder sometimes verry soft

i dont think it has to do with warmth... if it has been playing for hour`s
it still clicks at most first tracks of anny cd playing
and......sometimes not, so it is random all the way

what puzzeled me was that the same sound clicking was when i obstructed
the cd puting my finger on the puck and slowing it down made the same
clicking sound a bit louder and it was the 'low clack'

when i rotated the spindel by hand it seemed to be not rotating that smooth
but that maybe of some magnetic influence
so
i have put some wd40 in to the spindel-shaft
a verry thin oil
the spindel was rotating and stopping just a bit more smooth

it didn`t change the clicking much
i like to think it helped just a little ....but not sure

so your story of changing the resistors could help me out, but first
i am going to try the cap`s first also with the shunt method

so i would like to heare [ from annybody ] if there`s some light
on this case........

greetings
ronald
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Old 27th January 2017, 03:27 PM   #238
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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Hi Sony TA F6B,
well, I still have the cold-related clicking, but it īs effect is not as strong as before i swapped the resistors to 1% types.
Having temperatures around 20 degrees Celsius now, the clicking never appears.
To my knowledge, never use WD-40. As far as I know, it evaporates.
There is special oil for bearings. I think, is special in that way that it does not creep.
I assume anyone who professionally trades with bronce bearings should know which oil suits best.

I think I never tried swapping the quartz oscillator. Maybe this helps but it is a
complete shot in the dark.

Al the best,
Salar
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Old 28th December 2017, 04:22 PM   #239
Salar is offline Salar  Germany
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Join Date: Feb 2006
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HMM... December 2017 and the clicking is still there. Came back from a short trip, the room was about 13 degrees celsius and soft clicking. At room temperature it is gone but
this is not satisfying. Did anyone dug more into the problem? Or did an owner of an XA-50ES experience the same? - subtle popping related to temperature after the player has been switched on? I think there is no way to monitor when interpolation kicks in because of reading errors? I I would like to know wether the reading problem persists even when it has become inaudible...

BTW I did mill stabilizers for the X5000 which weight about the half of the original stabilizer. With the clicking problem, the lesser and more favorable mass of the stabilizer makes no difference...
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File Type: jpg sony-cdp-x5000-stabilisator-replacement-puck_824108.jpg (352.3 KB, 27 views)
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Old 28th December 2017, 09:04 PM   #240
sony ta f6b is offline sony ta f6b
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Hi salar

What worked for me was replacing all caps on the power board
And allso the motor drive board (2ps i believe)
Indeed with higer values ....

But i read in the thread you allreaddy did that

further i cleaned the lense verry verry good
3 times with mix alc ,dish was soap ,water
Drying it with ear-cleaner tips
Checking with a microscoop then it was clean
After 1st time there was stil a kind of matt on the side
And...
Most people say it is a nono but i put a tiny drop
Wd40 on a toothpicķ and dropped that on the bronze-bearings
Turned it by hand a couple of minutes back and forwards
Blowed with pressed air.....repeaded that again

Knowing that bronze is self-lubricating

It will sound as a red-neck treatment but i managed to blow new live
In a couple of players doing it redneck-style....

Another thing...
Maybe you can try a high-grade clock
It is quite expensive but
If it willnot work in the sony
Maybe you can put it in the nak.

Good luck (everyone)
Keep up the good work !

Greetings
Ro
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