UFL 12s connection from Ian PCM to I2S converter from a SDtrans386
Hi there gents, .....bit of a newbee question
Ref:- 12s connection from SDtrans 386 to Ians 12s to PCM converter PCB...then onward to a Aya DAC (With Sim mode option)
Just about to get my SDtrans 386 and i have Ians 12s to PCM converter to hand also.
If i wanted to connect the SDtrans to the PCM converter..as i see no UFL Outputs on the SDtrans , i asume this must be done from the header on the SDtrans to the Header on the PCM PCB (only way I think?)-
-From there it easy (UFL to UFL cable from PCM converter to Aya DAC
....OR is the PCM conversion a mute point as the DAC can run in Simultanious mode from 12s any way??
My thanks to you sirs
Johnny
Hi there gents, .....bit of a newbee question
Ref:- 12s connection from SDtrans 386 to Ians 12s to PCM converter PCB...then onward to a Aya DAC (With Sim mode option)
Just about to get my SDtrans 386 and i have Ians 12s to PCM converter to hand also.
If i wanted to connect the SDtrans to the PCM converter..as i see no UFL Outputs on the SDtrans , i asume this must be done from the header on the SDtrans to the Header on the PCM PCB (only way I think?)-
-From there it easy (UFL to UFL cable from PCM converter to Aya DAC
....OR is the PCM conversion a mute point as the DAC can run in Simultanious mode from 12s any way??
My thanks to you sirs
Johnny
Hi Greg, could you pls guide me voltages and connections for SDtrand384, I have LifePO battery with 3.3V, 6.6V .. And want to try it with SDTrans. btw, have you ever heard SDtrans with Salas Shunt BiB 2018?
Thank you.
Thank you.
@bitinhvi,
Sorry for the slow response. The main power input for the SDTrans384 is 5V via a 2.5mm jack. To provide separate power, there are 5 separate feed points... 3 are 3.3V, 1 is 2.5V, and 1 is 1.2V. Max Vin is specified as 5.25V
When you get an SDTrans, the manual explains how to use the included separate power points, which is where I inserted my replacement regulator boards.
I have heard of people powering the SDTrans with Salas shunt regulators, I suspect that will be one of the best sounding configurations available for an AC-connected power supply.
Greg in Mississippi
Sorry for the slow response. The main power input for the SDTrans384 is 5V via a 2.5mm jack. To provide separate power, there are 5 separate feed points... 3 are 3.3V, 1 is 2.5V, and 1 is 1.2V. Max Vin is specified as 5.25V
When you get an SDTrans, the manual explains how to use the included separate power points, which is where I inserted my replacement regulator boards.
I have heard of people powering the SDTrans with Salas shunt regulators, I suspect that will be one of the best sounding configurations available for an AC-connected power supply.
Greg in Mississippi
Time for an SDTrans384 Mk2?
In post #224 of this thread dated November 13 2010, Bunpei announced the release of the current HW version of the SDTrans384, then only supporting 192. Several firmware upgrades have enhanced the functionality of the unit, including DSD functionality AND increasing the maximum bit rate to 384.
I've been using an SDTran as my reference digital source for several years now. I have it connected to a highly modified Soekris DAM DAC and listen to it on a nearly daily basis. I've also done some modifications/upgrades to my SDT by using the 5 included external power feed points (3x3.3V, 2.5V, 1.2V) as insertion points for ldovr.com LT3045 boards, along with a quick and dirty 4-relay board remote functionality and a backlight jumper switch. I also added u.fl jacks directly soldered on the bottom of the TTL I2S output pins.
I love this unit and expect it will be in one of my systems for a long time. I especially like the use of distributed power regulation which helps improve the SQ by reducing interaction between different sections of the unit via their power rails.
BUT the platform is now almost 10 years old. I'd like to start a conversation calling for an upgraded hardware platform for the SDTrans. Here is my wishlist for the hardware side:
- Upgrade each of the local regulators to LT3045 or equivalents. Consider adding another regulator and external power feed point to exclusively power the SD Card.
- Upgrade the clocking inputs/outputs and TLL-level I2S outputs to include at least pads for installation of u.fl connectors for better signal integrity. Include dual sets of u.fl pads for the TLL I2S output to simplify use with dual-mono DAC board setups.
- Upgrade the on-board clocks... at the very least go to the lower-phase-noise SDA version of the NDK clocks on the board. Better yet might be to go with a plug-in carrier board similar to what Ian Canada uses on his FIFO setups to enable less invasive clock upgrades / replacements.
- Consider flip/flop style synchronous reclocking of the 2 I2S outputs right at the output connector points for the highest signal integrity.
- Look at upgrading the S/PDIF output chip to one of the later ones. That world has seen some improvements in the last 10 years. Also look at the LVDS conversion chip used to create the LVDC I2S output. There might be better (adding less jitter) ones available today.
- Plug-in add-on boards to enable easy remote operation (via relays or custom solutions), synchronous clocking (similar to what Chaiki did for his DAC designs), momentary switch for backlight (similar to what I did with a custom header), remote display operation.
AND here are some thoughts on some SW upgrades. NOTE that I would not want to see any of these implemented IF their implementation compromises the SQ we get from the SDTrans. It is currently and always will be a bit of a hair-shirt affair to use. While these could provide some useful upgrades, nothing will make it an easy-to-use unit appropriate for every digital playback setup. SO if any of these requires either HW or sufficiently extensive SW upgrades to compromise the SQ, I personally would not want them. BUT if they can be done with no compromise in SQ, here's my thoughts:
- FLAC decoding
- Higher PCM & DSD samplin rates
- Larger SD Cards... at least 64Gb
- Output signal phase reversal
- I2C signaling of output type (PCM or DSD), bit-rate, bit-depth, AND if possible, de-emphasis flag (used in a very small number of CDs)
Any thoughts?
Greg in Mississippi
In post #224 of this thread dated November 13 2010, Bunpei announced the release of the current HW version of the SDTrans384, then only supporting 192. Several firmware upgrades have enhanced the functionality of the unit, including DSD functionality AND increasing the maximum bit rate to 384.
I've been using an SDTran as my reference digital source for several years now. I have it connected to a highly modified Soekris DAM DAC and listen to it on a nearly daily basis. I've also done some modifications/upgrades to my SDT by using the 5 included external power feed points (3x3.3V, 2.5V, 1.2V) as insertion points for ldovr.com LT3045 boards, along with a quick and dirty 4-relay board remote functionality and a backlight jumper switch. I also added u.fl jacks directly soldered on the bottom of the TTL I2S output pins.
I love this unit and expect it will be in one of my systems for a long time. I especially like the use of distributed power regulation which helps improve the SQ by reducing interaction between different sections of the unit via their power rails.
BUT the platform is now almost 10 years old. I'd like to start a conversation calling for an upgraded hardware platform for the SDTrans. Here is my wishlist for the hardware side:
- Upgrade each of the local regulators to LT3045 or equivalents. Consider adding another regulator and external power feed point to exclusively power the SD Card.
- Upgrade the clocking inputs/outputs and TLL-level I2S outputs to include at least pads for installation of u.fl connectors for better signal integrity. Include dual sets of u.fl pads for the TLL I2S output to simplify use with dual-mono DAC board setups.
- Upgrade the on-board clocks... at the very least go to the lower-phase-noise SDA version of the NDK clocks on the board. Better yet might be to go with a plug-in carrier board similar to what Ian Canada uses on his FIFO setups to enable less invasive clock upgrades / replacements.
- Consider flip/flop style synchronous reclocking of the 2 I2S outputs right at the output connector points for the highest signal integrity.
- Look at upgrading the S/PDIF output chip to one of the later ones. That world has seen some improvements in the last 10 years. Also look at the LVDS conversion chip used to create the LVDC I2S output. There might be better (adding less jitter) ones available today.
- Plug-in add-on boards to enable easy remote operation (via relays or custom solutions), synchronous clocking (similar to what Chaiki did for his DAC designs), momentary switch for backlight (similar to what I did with a custom header), remote display operation.
AND here are some thoughts on some SW upgrades. NOTE that I would not want to see any of these implemented IF their implementation compromises the SQ we get from the SDTrans. It is currently and always will be a bit of a hair-shirt affair to use. While these could provide some useful upgrades, nothing will make it an easy-to-use unit appropriate for every digital playback setup. SO if any of these requires either HW or sufficiently extensive SW upgrades to compromise the SQ, I personally would not want them. BUT if they can be done with no compromise in SQ, here's my thoughts:
- FLAC decoding
- Higher PCM & DSD samplin rates
- Larger SD Cards... at least 64Gb
- Output signal phase reversal
- I2C signaling of output type (PCM or DSD), bit-rate, bit-depth, AND if possible, de-emphasis flag (used in a very small number of CDs)
Any thoughts?
Greg in Mississippi
Attachments
Arguably I2S should remain the best connection out there but we've gotta pay close attention to the quality as well as the length of cable(s) in order minimize the degradation.
Personally I'd rather see both transport and DAC (dual mono AK4499EQ) to be tightly integrated so that DuCULoN could work its magic to get everything covered. Of course we've gotta top it off with a pair of TLT1545ssWJ and we're pretty much getting some of the best components from Japan
新大陸への誘い :: TDA1545A IVトランス
https://samizuacoustics.com/ファインメットワールド/
Then there's also the clock for the FPGA itself, not exactly easy to find an excellent XO for that kinda frequency so hopefully Neutron Star 2 could match that
NewClassD NeutronStar 2
Audio Note Kaisei caps are also essential
SW1X Audio Design BLACK GATE VS KAISEI CAPACITORS REVIEW | SW1X Audio Design
Audio Note
https://www.audionote.co.uk/news
Some in Japan was already selling dual mono DAC with DuCULoN, PSU with LT3045, and SDTrans384 separately
http://toukiyakoneko.web.fc2.com/complete_model_and_semifinished_product.html
It's just a matter of putting everything together while taking advantage of the "magic" of those FINEMET transformers.
Personally I'd rather see both transport and DAC (dual mono AK4499EQ) to be tightly integrated so that DuCULoN could work its magic to get everything covered. Of course we've gotta top it off with a pair of TLT1545ssWJ and we're pretty much getting some of the best components from Japan
新大陸への誘い :: TDA1545A IVトランス
https://samizuacoustics.com/ファインメットワールド/
Then there's also the clock for the FPGA itself, not exactly easy to find an excellent XO for that kinda frequency so hopefully Neutron Star 2 could match that
NewClassD NeutronStar 2
Audio Note Kaisei caps are also essential
SW1X Audio Design BLACK GATE VS KAISEI CAPACITORS REVIEW | SW1X Audio Design
Audio Note
https://www.audionote.co.uk/news
Some in Japan was already selling dual mono DAC with DuCULoN, PSU with LT3045, and SDTrans384 separately
http://toukiyakoneko.web.fc2.com/complete_model_and_semifinished_product.html
It's just a matter of putting everything together while taking advantage of the "magic" of those FINEMET transformers.
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What would be nice is something like a pc case with locations for the different boards.
Main board with the sd player, then optional boards for the dac, various power supplies.
Main board could have headers for each as appropriate.
Could even have a line stage, or headphone amplifier too.
That would keep the dac tight with the 8805/12s from the player, and keep options open for power supplies.
Maybe keep the noisy clock on a small board nearby if connections can be made adequate. A partitioned area for the transformers would be nice also.
Separate deal;
Those bare NDK clocks from Diyink were too small for me to work with, need a microscope to use them pretty much if not using hot air and a correctly sized set of pads. They might be worth something if pre-mounted onto a board that is the size of a typical clock instead. I wasn’t motivated enough to make those boards and carry through using a microscope, hot air at my work. The parts have probably been swept up in my shop by now, were not on my bench the last I noticed, were likely overheated in my attempts.
Main board with the sd player, then optional boards for the dac, various power supplies.
Main board could have headers for each as appropriate.
Could even have a line stage, or headphone amplifier too.
That would keep the dac tight with the 8805/12s from the player, and keep options open for power supplies.
Maybe keep the noisy clock on a small board nearby if connections can be made adequate. A partitioned area for the transformers would be nice also.
Separate deal;
Those bare NDK clocks from Diyink were too small for me to work with, need a microscope to use them pretty much if not using hot air and a correctly sized set of pads. They might be worth something if pre-mounted onto a board that is the size of a typical clock instead. I wasn’t motivated enough to make those boards and carry through using a microscope, hot air at my work. The parts have probably been swept up in my shop by now, were not on my bench the last I noticed, were likely overheated in my attempts.
Regarding power supplies, I haven't tried the separated power supplies that Greg in Mississippi is talking about with my SDTrans, but I have used an Uptone Audio LPS-1 with my SDTrans. I thought the sound was phenomenal and the setup couldn't be easier - just plugged it in with the cord that came with the LPS-1. Head and shoulders better than any other source I've ever heard.
I bought used SDTrans so do not have manual . Thank you very much for valued information Greg.
I may try with Salas Shunt first as I got it in hand now. Then slowly study and try with LifePO power supply.
LifePO is 3.3V and I guess 03 3.3V can be shared, so I have to use 02 external regulators to get 2.5V and 1.2V.
@bitinhvi, PM me your email address, I'll email you the pdf manual and utility programs I received with my new one.
I just finished a Reflektor-D to try on my SDTrans384. Curious how it will fair against my dual LPS-1.2 & MPAudio board setup, which sounds VERY nice!
The 3 3.3V could be shared, but likely better SQ to use a separate battery for each. The ldovr.com LT3045 regulators work well to produce the 2.5V & 1.2V.
Check SD Card player threads on TirNaHiFi for info on how others have done this.
@Bill3331, I initially tried a single LPS-1 on my SDTrans setup. It sounded good, but lacked a bit in dynamics compared to my modified K&K Audio low voltage supply, though the LPS-1 setup was cleaner sounding. I had 2 LPS-1's that had been current-matched at Uptone Audio (the only ones in the wild AFAIK) and tried them, but the sonics were less focused than with a single LPS-1 and dynamics were not really improved. THEN I had the idea to parallel 2 LPS-1's via OPC's no-longer-available dual 4||LT3042 board and that instantly became my SDTrans reference supply, matching the K&K's dynamics with the cleanliness and detailing of the single LPS-1.
When MPAudio's similar dual 3||LT3045 board became available along with the LPS-1.2s, I tried them and found that setup increased resolution and slightly improved dynamics even further, so that is my current reference.
As I said above, I now have a 5V/450mA Salas Reflektor-D and intend to try it one powering the SDTrans with several different raw DC supplies, several AC-powered ones and an LPS-1.2 at 12V. We'll see how those setups compare to my current reference supply.
Greg in Mississippi
I just finished a Reflektor-D to try on my SDTrans384. Curious how it will fair against my dual LPS-1.2 & MPAudio board setup, which sounds VERY nice!
The 3 3.3V could be shared, but likely better SQ to use a separate battery for each. The ldovr.com LT3045 regulators work well to produce the 2.5V & 1.2V.
Check SD Card player threads on TirNaHiFi for info on how others have done this.
@Bill3331, I initially tried a single LPS-1 on my SDTrans setup. It sounded good, but lacked a bit in dynamics compared to my modified K&K Audio low voltage supply, though the LPS-1 setup was cleaner sounding. I had 2 LPS-1's that had been current-matched at Uptone Audio (the only ones in the wild AFAIK) and tried them, but the sonics were less focused than with a single LPS-1 and dynamics were not really improved. THEN I had the idea to parallel 2 LPS-1's via OPC's no-longer-available dual 4||LT3042 board and that instantly became my SDTrans reference supply, matching the K&K's dynamics with the cleanliness and detailing of the single LPS-1.
When MPAudio's similar dual 3||LT3045 board became available along with the LPS-1.2s, I tried them and found that setup increased resolution and slightly improved dynamics even further, so that is my current reference.
As I said above, I now have a 5V/450mA Salas Reflektor-D and intend to try it one powering the SDTrans with several different raw DC supplies, several AC-powered ones and an LPS-1.2 at 12V. We'll see how those setups compare to my current reference supply.
Greg in Mississippi
Attachments
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Hi Greg,
Below is my LifePO battery power supply.
It was made by my friend, intended to follow information from RandyTsuch on Tirnahifi.org for Soekris DAM. Then we found thread from Ian for battery power supply but cannot wait for completed version.
I plan to use these LifePO PS to feed both SDTrans384 and Soekris.
For regulators to get lower voltage, I got some China made base on TPS 7a47 which rather good.
Hopefully I can finish project in next 2 months
Below is my LifePO battery power supply.
It was made by my friend, intended to follow information from RandyTsuch on Tirnahifi.org for Soekris DAM. Then we found thread from Ian for battery power supply but cannot wait for completed version.
I plan to use these LifePO PS to feed both SDTrans384 and Soekris.
For regulators to get lower voltage, I got some China made base on TPS 7a47 which rather good.
Hopefully I can finish project in next 2 months
Attachments
@bitinhvi,
That should work very well. While the TPS7A4700 are not the latest and greatest regulators anymore, they are still good and should serve you well here... and be significant upgrades over the ADP151 LDO's on the board.
Looking forward to hearing your report.
BTW, Ian will be starting his Group Buy soon AND his LiFePO4 board will be around $200. Looks like you have what you need with this, but just in case...
Greg in Mississippi
That should work very well. While the TPS7A4700 are not the latest and greatest regulators anymore, they are still good and should serve you well here... and be significant upgrades over the ADP151 LDO's on the board.
Looking forward to hearing your report.
BTW, Ian will be starting his Group Buy soon AND his LiFePO4 board will be around $200. Looks like you have what you need with this, but just in case...
Greg in Mississippi
Distorted music when connecting ad transplanter to AYa DAC
Hi gents,
Finally got around to connecting my SDtrans player ( purchased in nov 2018)
With my Aya DAC purchased around th seams time, the Dac plays SPDIF input from my cd player very nicely, however when I connect my SDtrans music is audiable but with heavy distortion.
I have :
SDAT on the SD player connected to J303 DL/DATIN onthe AYA
BCK. on the SD player connected to J305 BCK IN on the AYA
L/R CLK on the SD player connected to J307 LE/WS on the AYA
As we know there are no UFL connectors on the SD trans ( be really good to have them eh?) some butchered some UFL connectors with appropriate ends to fit, on the DAC the input selection works and I can switch between the SDPlayerand my CD player, the 12s / sim switch is switched to 12s ( and stops audio when selected with my cd player connected so that works is sumise.
The UFL connectors have been checked with a multimeter and the earth and signal do not short and the leads have continuity when earth on sig are checked, they are however about 6 inches long.
So hopefully I am a twit who dont know diddly about connecting 12 s and can be called out for doing it wrong ( I Am a bit of a newbee )but if everyone could agree on a common standard and the SD trans had UFL sockets the the world would be peachy.....any suggestions gents ( apologies to sumotan who did sent some pictures,( I think I am following them?) - that's why I am confused here
Best regards
Johnny
Hi gents,
Finally got around to connecting my SDtrans player ( purchased in nov 2018)
With my Aya DAC purchased around th seams time, the Dac plays SPDIF input from my cd player very nicely, however when I connect my SDtrans music is audiable but with heavy distortion.
I have :
SDAT on the SD player connected to J303 DL/DATIN onthe AYA
BCK. on the SD player connected to J305 BCK IN on the AYA
L/R CLK on the SD player connected to J307 LE/WS on the AYA
As we know there are no UFL connectors on the SD trans ( be really good to have them eh?) some butchered some UFL connectors with appropriate ends to fit, on the DAC the input selection works and I can switch between the SDPlayerand my CD player, the 12s / sim switch is switched to 12s ( and stops audio when selected with my cd player connected so that works is sumise.
The UFL connectors have been checked with a multimeter and the earth and signal do not short and the leads have continuity when earth on sig are checked, they are however about 6 inches long.
So hopefully I am a twit who dont know diddly about connecting 12 s and can be called out for doing it wrong ( I Am a bit of a newbee )but if everyone could agree on a common standard and the SD trans had UFL sockets the the world would be peachy.....any suggestions gents ( apologies to sumotan who did sent some pictures,( I think I am following them?) - that's why I am confused here
Best regards
Johnny
Hi Greg,
Thank you very much for SDTrans manual, below is my progress so far.
Not all running on battery yet. Unfortunately, my regulator board has minimum voltage output at 1.4V, so the SDTrans is fed by TwistedPearAudio Placid shunt power supply. Sound is so good.
Just place order for 02 ldovr.com LT3045 boards, after that I can run SDTrans on battery. Can't wait to here how it sounds.
Thank you very much for SDTrans manual, below is my progress so far.
Not all running on battery yet. Unfortunately, my regulator board has minimum voltage output at 1.4V, so the SDTrans is fed by TwistedPearAudio Placid shunt power supply. Sound is so good.
Just place order for 02 ldovr.com LT3045 boards, after that I can run SDTrans on battery. Can't wait to here how it sounds.
Attachments
There’s a total of 6 seperate regs on the SD trans. Don’t get too caught up with Ultra low noise regs. What’s most important is the PS caps, what brand what values affect the sound greatly & from my findings not all should be powered using the same values. The biggest suprise comes frm the 5v supply aside frm powering the display, I believe that it also powers the Sd Card reader. Focus here rips big SQ benefits.
Cheers
Cheers
No Greg I will not simply because I do not want to be called Hogwash.
What I’ve shared are my findings & to those whose adventurous can experiment & varify for themselves.
There’s already a whole bunch who believes that batteries are the Holy Grail. What if I tell these guys that there’s no free lunch, what do you think they’ll call me ?
What I’ve shared are my findings & to those whose adventurous can experiment & varify for themselves.
There’s already a whole bunch who believes that batteries are the Holy Grail. What if I tell these guys that there’s no free lunch, what do you think they’ll call me ?