P1-A Manual
As this may concern others, I'll take the liberty of replying to your post on the forum.
Bencat - thank you, that is very kind of you.
I might be able to assist further. I have made contact with a gent who is selling the P1 and P3 combo and power supply on a certain well known auction site and he has kindly agreed to photocopy the manual for me. When I have it, I will scan it and can make it available to you (and anybody else who is interested). It includes the addendum for later models.
Best
Peter
As this may concern others, I'll take the liberty of replying to your post on the forum.
Bencat - thank you, that is very kind of you.
I might be able to assist further. I have made contact with a gent who is selling the P1 and P3 combo and power supply on a certain well known auction site and he has kindly agreed to photocopy the manual for me. When I have it, I will scan it and can make it available to you (and anybody else who is interested). It includes the addendum for later models.
Best
Peter
Hi Peter
The better copies when you get them will be helpful. What are you trying to do ? I can offer you some advice on using this unit but it depends on how you are using it.
If you are using the P-1a with a P-3a then the advice is to set the P-1a for the sample of the input ie if CD then 44.1khz . Then set the bit word for 24 bit. This then feeds this to the P-3a which will upsample the signal to 96khz and 24 bit length. This is the way this sounds best as if you upsample using the P-1a as well this seems to mess up the sound . Would suggest that you use the P-1a in its enhanced mode as I find this sounds better but you can switch between this mode anyway .
The only time this setting should not be used like this is if you have an I2s source and then you feed the P-1a to the P-3a via the I2s output . In this case you set the P-3a to I2s direct and it will send the signal direct to the Dac chip and miss out the Crystal Upsampller chip . So in this case it is better to set the P-1a to 192 Khz input and 24 bit word and it will tranfer the signal at its highest bit rate.
If you use the P-1a with another Dac then much depends on how that Dac works if it does its own upsampling then settings should be as per the P-3a if it does not then set the P-1a for the best sampling rate it will do and the word length to 24 bit.
Please let me know if you need anything more and hope your unit sounds as good as it can when set up correctly .
The better copies when you get them will be helpful. What are you trying to do ? I can offer you some advice on using this unit but it depends on how you are using it.
If you are using the P-1a with a P-3a then the advice is to set the P-1a for the sample of the input ie if CD then 44.1khz . Then set the bit word for 24 bit. This then feeds this to the P-3a which will upsample the signal to 96khz and 24 bit length. This is the way this sounds best as if you upsample using the P-1a as well this seems to mess up the sound . Would suggest that you use the P-1a in its enhanced mode as I find this sounds better but you can switch between this mode anyway .
The only time this setting should not be used like this is if you have an I2s source and then you feed the P-1a to the P-3a via the I2s output . In this case you set the P-3a to I2s direct and it will send the signal direct to the Dac chip and miss out the Crystal Upsampller chip . So in this case it is better to set the P-1a to 192 Khz input and 24 bit word and it will tranfer the signal at its highest bit rate.
If you use the P-1a with another Dac then much depends on how that Dac works if it does its own upsampling then settings should be as per the P-3a if it does not then set the P-1a for the best sampling rate it will do and the word length to 24 bit.
Please let me know if you need anything more and hope your unit sounds as good as it can when set up correctly .
Just out of interest, I wonder how the P-1A & P-3A combo (probably state of the art years back) now stack up against today's top end DAC's? Anyone had a chance to compare?
Bencat,
Thanks for your help. I now have a scanned version of the manual which I will be able to send you when the power cut we are currently experiencing finishes. Happy to send to anybody else who needs a copy, too.
I will run the P1A into the P3A as you suggest.
Regarding I2S, I have also scored some old Audio Alchemy I2S mini din cables off a company in California and was wondering about cannibalising one of the cables and an old CD player to experiment with all through I2S...again, happy to share the name of the vendor although she wont send outside the USA - had to get it sent to a friend who sent them to me.
None of my CD players has I2S out, nor my Sooloos Ensemble, sadly.
Peter
Thanks for your help. I now have a scanned version of the manual which I will be able to send you when the power cut we are currently experiencing finishes. Happy to send to anybody else who needs a copy, too.
I will run the P1A into the P3A as you suggest.
Regarding I2S, I have also scored some old Audio Alchemy I2S mini din cables off a company in California and was wondering about cannibalising one of the cables and an old CD player to experiment with all through I2S...again, happy to share the name of the vendor although she wont send outside the USA - had to get it sent to a friend who sent them to me.
None of my CD players has I2S out, nor my Sooloos Ensemble, sadly.
Peter
marcus1,
Not sure it answers your question but...they were actually quite affordable in their day.
I don't have the cash for high end but think the combo will still give most affordable DACs a run for their money (say under a thousand sterling). I certainly don't feel motivated to splash out on a new one and I can normally persuade myself to spend cash on kit! I just don't think that the additional outlay is justified by the "advances" made in the last few years.
Funnily enough, having tried some well regarded new DACs, it is more of a toss up for me whether to rely on the rather smooth twin DACs in my elderly Luxman DZ 112! I am pondering a lampizator type tweak to this CDP to see what valves would do its sound.
These are not quite high end, but I also have the Musical Fidelity V DAC MkII with upgraded power supply for my Mac Mini computer-based audio (with M2Tech hi-face) in my office. It's ok - a bit thin and not very assured in the bass - but no contest for the PT.
I've auditioned the newest Arcam RDAC and Audiolab M DAC in my system (DK Technologies Reference III hybrid amp and Sonus Faber Grand Piano speakers, home made TNT Audio-type interconnects and braided CAT5 type speaker cables).
The PT rig (P3A only) in my system to my taste has a bigger soundstage, is more open and musical than any of these. Both the testers are perfectly competent but the Arcam is to my hearing arid and uninvolving while the Audiolab just sounded bland in my system. The PT sounded particularly good on piano and percussion - bass is very assured and the cymbals sounded real.
I took the view that I would be better off investing elsewhere and should spend my spare cash on a new MC cartridge instead!
I'm just getting to grips with the P1A-P3A combo so can't yet report on what they sound like in tandem in comparison to anything else.
I hope that helps
Peter
Additonal Information
To all that are using this thread please find a picture of the pin configuration of the P-1a (also P-3a) on the 5 Pin Mini Din for I2S connection .
I have linked a diagram on another thread which is not correct and I am going to correct that thread now . Please be careful as this configuration is for Audio Alchemy / Perpetual Technologies only and is not likely to work with other companies that use I2S (Stello being a case in point) .
To all that are using this thread please find a picture of the pin configuration of the P-1a (also P-3a) on the 5 Pin Mini Din for I2S connection .
I have linked a diagram on another thread which is not correct and I am going to correct that thread now . Please be careful as this configuration is for Audio Alchemy / Perpetual Technologies only and is not likely to work with other companies that use I2S (Stello being a case in point) .
Attachments
Hi Peter
I have just sourced an I2S cable made up with 9.99% pure silver wire which I was thinking should be an improvement . I currently use a Kimber I2s. Sadly I can not report on the silver cable right now as due to me error as above it does not work. I am sending back to the company that made it and they are going to rejig it so that it will work. Will post my findings when I can .
I only use this connector from P-1a to P-3a as like you I do not have a Transport that puts out an I2S signal . The Audio Engineer who does my repairs has said that it would be fairly easy to fit one to my current transport but as yet I have not been brave enough. I use the AES/EBU input.
Currently I have the P-1a and P-3a Modwright Signature II as a combination and I think despite the fact this was certianly not the most expensive set up when new it is very much in the giant killer class.
Most important is to get the set up right and ensure that you avoid the trap of upsamplling twice . Once you get this right and you use the best inputs you can then I would say there are very few Dac,s today that will sound that much better no matter what the price . The air and ease of these two units is very attractive and the quality and tactile nauture of the bass is superb . I also think that it seems to portray the human voice with real natualness even though in many cases that voice may well have been processed. This combo does not disguise a poor recording but it does let the music shine through and does not make poor recordings unlistenable which some current high end Dacs I have heard do.
Would also say the the P-1a while it makes a really excellent partner with the P-3a it can also work with any other Dac and with its Jitter reducing improves the sound and adds some if not all of the combinations abilities to that Dac.
Peter do you know any details of the US cables you have found ? Who made them etc . If the silver cable works when reconfigured can let you have details it is not very expensive (£35 for 0.5 mtre) I do find with I2S that keeping it as short as possible is esential . This is not really a robust signal meant for cable use it is really meant to travel along pcb tracks and over very short distances .
I have just sourced an I2S cable made up with 9.99% pure silver wire which I was thinking should be an improvement . I currently use a Kimber I2s. Sadly I can not report on the silver cable right now as due to me error as above it does not work. I am sending back to the company that made it and they are going to rejig it so that it will work. Will post my findings when I can .
I only use this connector from P-1a to P-3a as like you I do not have a Transport that puts out an I2S signal . The Audio Engineer who does my repairs has said that it would be fairly easy to fit one to my current transport but as yet I have not been brave enough. I use the AES/EBU input.
Currently I have the P-1a and P-3a Modwright Signature II as a combination and I think despite the fact this was certianly not the most expensive set up when new it is very much in the giant killer class.
Most important is to get the set up right and ensure that you avoid the trap of upsamplling twice . Once you get this right and you use the best inputs you can then I would say there are very few Dac,s today that will sound that much better no matter what the price . The air and ease of these two units is very attractive and the quality and tactile nauture of the bass is superb . I also think that it seems to portray the human voice with real natualness even though in many cases that voice may well have been processed. This combo does not disguise a poor recording but it does let the music shine through and does not make poor recordings unlistenable which some current high end Dacs I have heard do.
Would also say the the P-1a while it makes a really excellent partner with the P-3a it can also work with any other Dac and with its Jitter reducing improves the sound and adds some if not all of the combinations abilities to that Dac.
Peter do you know any details of the US cables you have found ? Who made them etc . If the silver cable works when reconfigured can let you have details it is not very expensive (£35 for 0.5 mtre) I do find with I2S that keeping it as short as possible is esential . This is not really a robust signal meant for cable use it is really meant to travel along pcb tracks and over very short distances .
Audio Alchemy I2S cable
Bencat
I had already pm'd you when I saw this.
Yes, I am very interested in a better quality cable. Do please let me know when you have had success. Re putting in I2S output, I was thinking of scoring an old (and cheap!) CD player to experiment with first.
For others watching this thread, for the Audio Alchemy cables try:
Carrie Martinez carrie@siliconsalvage.com Silicon Salvage, Inc.(ebay sellers ssinc1500)
1500 N Dale Ave.
Anaheim, CA 92801
phone: 714-523-2425
fax: 714-523-2552
The cable appears to be the stock AA cable and is nothing exotic. Its main redeeming feature is that we know that it is made to the AA and PT configuration! And the fact that it is only $4.99 a pop.
The slight snag is that SS won't ship outside the US, so you will either need to plead your case or find a friend Stateside to take receipt and onward ship.
Peter
Bencat
I had already pm'd you when I saw this.
Yes, I am very interested in a better quality cable. Do please let me know when you have had success. Re putting in I2S output, I was thinking of scoring an old (and cheap!) CD player to experiment with first.
For others watching this thread, for the Audio Alchemy cables try:
Carrie Martinez carrie@siliconsalvage.com Silicon Salvage, Inc.(ebay sellers ssinc1500)
1500 N Dale Ave.
Anaheim, CA 92801
phone: 714-523-2425
fax: 714-523-2552
The cable appears to be the stock AA cable and is nothing exotic. Its main redeeming feature is that we know that it is made to the AA and PT configuration! And the fact that it is only $4.99 a pop.
The slight snag is that SS won't ship outside the US, so you will either need to plead your case or find a friend Stateside to take receipt and onward ship.
Peter
I wrote a pair of articles for Audio Amateur about how to do this. TAA 3/95 and 1/97 from AudioXpress. I no longer have them in electronic form.
The key is knowing the pinouts of the relevant chips and that is hard to know if you do not have schematics.
P.S.: I have a P-1A and a P-3A in the back of my closet, if anyone is interested.
Kal
Hi Kal
Thanks for this according to my Audio Repair Engineer he seems to feel that it is a fairly simple job to fit an I2S out for any CD player (he did say to me that DVD players might be a little more difficult but I have forgotten why) . He also says that the schematics for most if not all the usual chips used in CD players are freely available so getting the pin configuration should be easy once you are sure of the chip used and which issue it is. It is advisable if you are not going to do this yourself that you take along the I2S Dac or Other unit that you are going to connect at the same time so that the engineer can be sure that they work together . Phillips CD transports would be favourite for this type of job both as they all use I2S and also on sonic grounds .
Every DVD/CD player has this kind of connection inside (or one similar). The external DAC's are limited by the SPDIF connection jitter - SPDIF mixes all the signals in one wire, making recovery of the clock a problem.
Any optical player, with a decent DAC, will have similar "quality" as your i2s external connection.
Any optical player, with a decent DAC, will have similar "quality" as your i2s external connection.
True. The additional issue is the data format that is available. One needs to know that and, perhaps, modify it to suit.
Thank you for the advice one of the advantages that I2S has is that it does not have to be translated to another format which it does for SPDIF . Its disadvantage is of course that it was not meant to be sent in a cable or for long distances.
I can not agree with you regarding the Optical out and connections used in current players as I find these to be almost always worse sounding than a standard coax SPDIF. At&T did make a very high quality optical which on the one or two times I was able to hear it sounded very good indeed but it never caught on .
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