I am buying a new DAC this month and wanted to get some input from others. Please only share input if you have lived with the DAC for at least a couple months.
I am leaning towards buying a used PS Audio Direct Stream. I can pick one up used for a little under $3k. I really like the idea of having an FPGA DAC. Its much more than a software upgrade. It is like being able to download new hardware which is very attractive when buying a piece of equipment with a few years on it.
Another contender if I can find one used for my price range is the Denafrips terminator 2. Given how new it is it may not be possible.
So what else is out there around $3k used I should be looking at?
My system is a VERY nice DIY D3a/300B SET amp. It is a design by Andre Cuffoli at Audiodesignguide.com. The newest one with all the Lundahl iron. Mine has Tent Labs heater boards and Duelund coupling caps. Amp is DEAD SILENT playing into my Klipsch La Scalas with cross over upgrade. It sounds simply amazing but I need to upgrade my source. Currently using a Topping D50s.
So experienced input is welcome and appreciated.
Thanks
Jeff
I am leaning towards buying a used PS Audio Direct Stream. I can pick one up used for a little under $3k. I really like the idea of having an FPGA DAC. Its much more than a software upgrade. It is like being able to download new hardware which is very attractive when buying a piece of equipment with a few years on it.
Another contender if I can find one used for my price range is the Denafrips terminator 2. Given how new it is it may not be possible.
So what else is out there around $3k used I should be looking at?
My system is a VERY nice DIY D3a/300B SET amp. It is a design by Andre Cuffoli at Audiodesignguide.com. The newest one with all the Lundahl iron. Mine has Tent Labs heater boards and Duelund coupling caps. Amp is DEAD SILENT playing into my Klipsch La Scalas with cross over upgrade. It sounds simply amazing but I need to upgrade my source. Currently using a Topping D50s.
So experienced input is welcome and appreciated.
Thanks
Jeff
for 3000 $ it does even worth start searching.
For a used decent DAC you need to pay at least 8k $.
Believe me, the difference is HUGE!
And dont forget to spend at least the same amount on speaker cables
and the same amount in the power supply cable.
Only all together makes sense.
Believe, I was on this journey before.
But now after spending 24 k$ on cables and on the DAC my Dali zensor 1, I use in my bathroom, really sound great now.
For a used decent DAC you need to pay at least 8k $.
Believe me, the difference is HUGE!
And dont forget to spend at least the same amount on speaker cables
and the same amount in the power supply cable.
Only all together makes sense.
Believe, I was on this journey before.
But now after spending 24 k$ on cables and on the DAC my Dali zensor 1, I use in my bathroom, really sound great now.
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I have Holo Audio May DAC. It is exceptional in every way. Recently I studied the innards as well and was equally blown away.
It is the best NOS R-2R DAC...and I listen to it with un-upsampled (native resolution, raw files) material, bit-perfect.
But, it will support PCM up to 1.536MHz and 1024DSD. So, matched with HQ Player... it will provide a different but still stunning sound. It caters for all tastes. Its output runs in pure class A, it also has one of the best PLL implementations in the industry at the moment.
May might be too expensive; however, the Spring version 3 is pretty much the same, in a single box. It will sound stunning, completely natural and very transparent with 300B.
Pity you want to buy rather than build a DAC, otherwise this might be interesting:
Valve DAC from Linear Audio volume 13
Its original version uses an FPGA and an SRC4392 for the digital signal processing, tubes for the digital to analog conversion, for the voltage reference and for the clock generator, and potcores and capacitors for the analog reconstruction filtering.
Valve DAC from Linear Audio volume 13
Its original version uses an FPGA and an SRC4392 for the digital signal processing, tubes for the digital to analog conversion, for the voltage reference and for the clock generator, and potcores and capacitors for the analog reconstruction filtering.
I would agree on the recommendation for mid-high tier Holo DACs (final cost may include a very powerful computer for pre-DAC DSP). Another very popular high end DAC is 'Chord Hugo TT 2.'
The latter dac is sometimes modified by use of an external linear PS to replace with default switcher. Also, there is DSP preprocessor (pre-scaler?) available that is said to further improve SQ. Unfortunately, buy-in cost for those two special example DACs is more than your budget.
Below $3k are dacs like Benchmark DAC-3 (~$2.2k) that simply don't compare to the good Hugo and Chord models. One problem is that there is sort of a price gap between the consumer level audio gear market and the high end market. In the latter market good looks matter and sales volumes tend to be pretty low. The most expensive part of a high end audio device is normally the case (often made of milled aluminum). The next most expensive part is often the power transformer. Retail price markup of the incremental cost of making one unit has to be a good 6x. OTOH in the high sales volume consumer market, retail markup tends to be in the range of 3-5 times incremental manufacturing cost. Bottom line: there is a price jump when moving to the high end market.
In that high end market there exists some utter junk in nice looking cases, and there are also a few extremely good pieces. It may take some work to separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were.
Best advice I would offer given your budget and interest in finding something good: Buy a Topping D90 or something in that class and save the rest of your money until you can afford the right model Holo or Chord.
If on the other hand you want to build a dac, well... that can get expensive, time-consuming, and the results can be hard to predict. I'm still working on one myself, but its a long slow slog to make something in the same league as the really good stuff. A lot of R&D to figure out stuff not spelled out in literature. However it can still be an interesting hobby activity.
Regarding buying used gear, usually the really good stuff everybody wants is to too good to sell. Its worth keeping. Occasionally there may be one for sale, but it will probably be snapped up fast and sell for a high-ish price.
Regarding things like cables, they can make a difference, sometimes a substantial difference, but price is no guarantee of performance in your system. The best cables are usually very short ones. As Nelson Pass has pointed out, its hard to beat 6" of Romex as a speaker cable. An 8' long cable may be a very different matter.
Regarding power cords, if a power cord affects SQ it means there is a design problem with the audio gear being powered. The cord can act as a filter to attenuate RFI/EMI conducted through the power line and injected into audio circuitry through stray coupling. Sometimes getting the right power conditioner is a better solution, but beware many power conditioners can make SQ worse. Again, there is some research to do to find the good stuff. You can always ask around here too, but as with other sources of information you have to figure out who to listen to when differing opinions are offered. Don't necessarily listen to whoever says what you want to hear or you already agree with; it may or may not be the best answer.
The latter dac is sometimes modified by use of an external linear PS to replace with default switcher. Also, there is DSP preprocessor (pre-scaler?) available that is said to further improve SQ. Unfortunately, buy-in cost for those two special example DACs is more than your budget.
Below $3k are dacs like Benchmark DAC-3 (~$2.2k) that simply don't compare to the good Hugo and Chord models. One problem is that there is sort of a price gap between the consumer level audio gear market and the high end market. In the latter market good looks matter and sales volumes tend to be pretty low. The most expensive part of a high end audio device is normally the case (often made of milled aluminum). The next most expensive part is often the power transformer. Retail price markup of the incremental cost of making one unit has to be a good 6x. OTOH in the high sales volume consumer market, retail markup tends to be in the range of 3-5 times incremental manufacturing cost. Bottom line: there is a price jump when moving to the high end market.
In that high end market there exists some utter junk in nice looking cases, and there are also a few extremely good pieces. It may take some work to separate the wheat from the chaff, as it were.
Best advice I would offer given your budget and interest in finding something good: Buy a Topping D90 or something in that class and save the rest of your money until you can afford the right model Holo or Chord.
If on the other hand you want to build a dac, well... that can get expensive, time-consuming, and the results can be hard to predict. I'm still working on one myself, but its a long slow slog to make something in the same league as the really good stuff. A lot of R&D to figure out stuff not spelled out in literature. However it can still be an interesting hobby activity.
Regarding buying used gear, usually the really good stuff everybody wants is to too good to sell. Its worth keeping. Occasionally there may be one for sale, but it will probably be snapped up fast and sell for a high-ish price.
Regarding things like cables, they can make a difference, sometimes a substantial difference, but price is no guarantee of performance in your system. The best cables are usually very short ones. As Nelson Pass has pointed out, its hard to beat 6" of Romex as a speaker cable. An 8' long cable may be a very different matter.
Regarding power cords, if a power cord affects SQ it means there is a design problem with the audio gear being powered. The cord can act as a filter to attenuate RFI/EMI conducted through the power line and injected into audio circuitry through stray coupling. Sometimes getting the right power conditioner is a better solution, but beware many power conditioners can make SQ worse. Again, there is some research to do to find the good stuff. You can always ask around here too, but as with other sources of information you have to figure out who to listen to when differing opinions are offered. Don't necessarily listen to whoever says what you want to hear or you already agree with; it may or may not be the best answer.
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Have a look at what I attached. Everything that you see is pure silver; no soldering. Sounds faster than the speed of light. Ultimately spacious and transparent. But, 99% of the time people are simply not ready for this cable, for various reasons. The predominant reason is crap Hi-Fi gear.
All HiFi components manufactured today should be tested/auditioned by manufacturers with this cable, before a final product is being released; this would DEMAND a quantum leap in the quality of all the Hi-Fi components available to consumers.
Attachments
You should be able to buy Weiss DAC202 if you like silver. Doesn't have much sound on its own and is utterly relaxing. If black is your preference and you can forego notion of updating software and new formats Abbas dac will deliver emotion in spades . Long wait time for one. Most of the DACs on the market is competent and the problem seems to be too many choices since changing DAC is a monthly activity to some. Most audio junkies like to share their toys so why don't you try to borrow some from an audio circle in your town. I may be in minority but I think that well executed dac from the beginning of century is still competitive today. I have Audiomeca Enkianthus with Anagram upsampling module and the DAC still shines but I don't stream. Good luck
Same could be made from copper but silver flashed.... what you'like is the lack of bad soldering material between the cable and the RCA. However notice you will have always bad solering things on the pcbs, after with the plug and pcb and before the cable and after still on the signal will all the parts on pcb.
I had experienced some resistors without soldering on a dac pcb....results were good and instructive. If I was constructor i will try to flash soldering with laser, lol.
What is working good for RCA are the very thin not plain rodes, you can recognize them as they are drilled inside in the length to have less material. Oyaide makes cheap enough good vry neutral cables with such plugs.
But the shorter is always the better both for the wallet and the sound. Or that means that you introduced a piece of filter or the matching impedance between the load and the source is not so well made.
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Impressive. Are these available in copper? As i truly cannot stand silver.
I find it weird that you like both the Holo and the Hugo. They should appeal to very different tastes.
We directly compared DAC-3 to Topping D90. The latter won easily. Much more recent technology for one thing.
Guys, are you really serious about this?
A DAC has no magic. It's a very simple IC with a very simple task.
Call it 'holo': should it stand for holographic?
Print some wolfs on the board. Looks fancy. Nice toy for guys who have everything.
If you really want something really good, for decent money, look at studio equipment.
If you want to show off or you believe in hocus-pocus, go on and tell each other how good this or that DAC sounds*. It helps if more people believe in it.
But then this topic should be moved to the sub-forum "religion".
*Probably many of you are aged over 50 and are not able to hear 12 kHz, but necessary need a dac which can do at least 192 kHz.
A DAC has no magic. It's a very simple IC with a very simple task.
Call it 'holo': should it stand for holographic?
Print some wolfs on the board. Looks fancy. Nice toy for guys who have everything.
If you really want something really good, for decent money, look at studio equipment.
If you want to show off or you believe in hocus-pocus, go on and tell each other how good this or that DAC sounds*. It helps if more people believe in it.
But then this topic should be moved to the sub-forum "religion".
*Probably many of you are aged over 50 and are not able to hear 12 kHz, but necessary need a dac which can do at least 192 kHz.