I need a new DAC. I use my computer for volume control, but do not trust it. I want separate volume control. The 90s me would have immediately thought preamp. But since I need a new DAC, my question stands ... DAC as a preamp?
I've posted more info about my system below.
I need some advice on the best way to go about getting volume control for these powerful asp1000 amplifiers. I've read about the high input impedance. I use a computer for my source playing Flac, wav or hi-res audio files. I'm using a very simple dongle Style USB DAC that sounds okay. I have choices, but do not know what my best bet is. For simplicity, it would seem I should just buy a better desktop DAC, such as and SMSL M500 and use the volume control knob on front. Or ANY other DAC with a volume control for that matter. I know I can use my volume control the USB. Provides through the keyboard on my computer. But with amplifiers this powerful, I figure I should have a volume control to prevent issues such as full volume noise blasts, which have happened before when the computer glitches. My second option would be to purchase a regular preamp. This would be the most expensive option, as I would want something at least as good as the Schitt Freya +, and that is $900! I would still need a decent DAC upgrade. This gets expensive with my health issues at hand. The last way I could go, is something like an all tube gain stage. I would still need a DAC, but a simple gain stage kit should only be a few hundred at most. The other two options I can think of, would be the pass B1 buffer clone kit preamp for 150 dollars, but I don't know if it would play nice with a high input impedance of the icepower amp. The most simple and cheapest route, would be be using the Sure digital volume control option. But I do not know how high fidelity that would be. I could really use some help. I've been out of this hobby for about 10 years now. I feel a bit lost and appreciate everyone who has helped so far.
I've posted more info about my system below.
I need some advice on the best way to go about getting volume control for these powerful asp1000 amplifiers. I've read about the high input impedance. I use a computer for my source playing Flac, wav or hi-res audio files. I'm using a very simple dongle Style USB DAC that sounds okay. I have choices, but do not know what my best bet is. For simplicity, it would seem I should just buy a better desktop DAC, such as and SMSL M500 and use the volume control knob on front. Or ANY other DAC with a volume control for that matter. I know I can use my volume control the USB. Provides through the keyboard on my computer. But with amplifiers this powerful, I figure I should have a volume control to prevent issues such as full volume noise blasts, which have happened before when the computer glitches. My second option would be to purchase a regular preamp. This would be the most expensive option, as I would want something at least as good as the Schitt Freya +, and that is $900! I would still need a decent DAC upgrade. This gets expensive with my health issues at hand. The last way I could go, is something like an all tube gain stage. I would still need a DAC, but a simple gain stage kit should only be a few hundred at most. The other two options I can think of, would be the pass B1 buffer clone kit preamp for 150 dollars, but I don't know if it would play nice with a high input impedance of the icepower amp. The most simple and cheapest route, would be be using the Sure digital volume control option. But I do not know how high fidelity that would be. I could really use some help. I've been out of this hobby for about 10 years now. I feel a bit lost and appreciate everyone who has helped so far.
i use a topping d30, a dac with four inputs and capable of producing full 2.1 volts output. I was concerned at the begging about all the trimmings and lost of resolution of the digital volume on the dac vs going full volume out of the dac and using an analog attenuator to reduce the gain. All my fears disappearerd when I read a paper from ess explaining that the samples were converted to 32 bit inside the dac and them the volume correction was applied before the final dac stage with virtualy no loss on resolution as it happened in 32 bits ( most audio sources are 16 bit) the remote control makes the whole thing very convenient, but I wish for my next dac some kind of knob encoder on the front of the unit.
I do not have your power, but my amps can overpower my speakers. I have never had an issue using the remote control. I do not use the usb sound control to avoid possible resolution losses (it's always at 100 ) and the button on the remote can mute the unit if some recording is accidentally high.
Regarding computer glitches, all you can do is be proactive. Get a dedicated system ( does not need to be fancy, it's a glorified usb server), get a ups, underclock the system ( less heat, less noise) and just keep what you need for music, no more, no less. Increase reliability by load decrease. In as much as I had issues on the past while using the built in sound card, since I go via usb dac i do not recall the pc locking up while playing. I run and old small form factor dell with a headless windows 10 pro and equalizer apo.
I do not have your power, but my amps can overpower my speakers. I have never had an issue using the remote control. I do not use the usb sound control to avoid possible resolution losses (it's always at 100 ) and the button on the remote can mute the unit if some recording is accidentally high.
Regarding computer glitches, all you can do is be proactive. Get a dedicated system ( does not need to be fancy, it's a glorified usb server), get a ups, underclock the system ( less heat, less noise) and just keep what you need for music, no more, no less. Increase reliability by load decrease. In as much as I had issues on the past while using the built in sound card, since I go via usb dac i do not recall the pc locking up while playing. I run and old small form factor dell with a headless windows 10 pro and equalizer apo.
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High input impedance is good. it is ideal even. it is low input impedance you would perhaps have to worry about, depending on your Dac's output impedance. A high input impedance presents a lower/easier load to the preceding stage (dac, preamp, whatever).
Regarding the ESS paper, its a bit misleading (fancy that), you are still reducing SNR when you turn the volume down, just as you are with an analogue control, so your ENOB (effective number of bits) is reduced. In use, as Frabor mentions, it is fairly benign and very convenient. You will never go back, provided your gain structure isnt screwed; in which case I would add a switch with a few resistors to provide a couple of steps of rough gain adjustment and use the dac for finer adjustment.
I would avoid a preamp for that reason. if you dont need the ability to have multiple sources and analogue sources, the chances of you needing extra gain after the dac are low (depends on your speakers efficiency dB/W). I couldnt find a datasheet for the AS100 on their site, but the 1200AS1 does indeed have a reasonably high 38kΩ input impedance and requires 5V input for full power output into 4Ω, with nearly 26dB gain. The B1 has less than unity gain, so would work, if you had to go that route, but you do not need more gain. Balanced output Dacs are in some cases much higher than 2.1v these days, so yeah. I would honestly question most users need for 1000W and with 26dB gain, may end up being the weak link, as you will never get past 3 on your volume dial; meaning you throw a lot of your precious performance away; regardless of what type of volume control you use. What speakers do you use?
Definitely avoid the standard windows volume control on the keyboard, but most apps these days include 32 or 64bit digital volume control, or in many cases directly link to your dacs MCU and control their volume through i2C over USB or HDMI.
Regarding the ESS paper, its a bit misleading (fancy that), you are still reducing SNR when you turn the volume down, just as you are with an analogue control, so your ENOB (effective number of bits) is reduced. In use, as Frabor mentions, it is fairly benign and very convenient. You will never go back, provided your gain structure isnt screwed; in which case I would add a switch with a few resistors to provide a couple of steps of rough gain adjustment and use the dac for finer adjustment.
I would avoid a preamp for that reason. if you dont need the ability to have multiple sources and analogue sources, the chances of you needing extra gain after the dac are low (depends on your speakers efficiency dB/W). I couldnt find a datasheet for the AS100 on their site, but the 1200AS1 does indeed have a reasonably high 38kΩ input impedance and requires 5V input for full power output into 4Ω, with nearly 26dB gain. The B1 has less than unity gain, so would work, if you had to go that route, but you do not need more gain. Balanced output Dacs are in some cases much higher than 2.1v these days, so yeah. I would honestly question most users need for 1000W and with 26dB gain, may end up being the weak link, as you will never get past 3 on your volume dial; meaning you throw a lot of your precious performance away; regardless of what type of volume control you use. What speakers do you use?
Definitely avoid the standard windows volume control on the keyboard, but most apps these days include 32 or 64bit digital volume control, or in many cases directly link to your dacs MCU and control their volume through i2C over USB or HDMI.
Its best to keep the computer volume control up at 100%, unless you want to reduce the digital input into the dac for a good reason. The only reason I can think of is that some dacs have higher distortion for peak level signal than for signals maybe 3dB - 6dB down from maximum volume. The distortion is more likely to be audible when playing music that has been high highly compressed in order to compete in the volume wars (i.e. pop/rock/etc.). In that case the music is at or very near peak level much more of the time.
Other than that its best to use the digital volume control inside ESS dacs since there is no way to bypass it anyway, and it operates at 32-bits. For dacs like AKM in direct DSD mode, there is no internal volume control in dac chip for that particular mode. In that case a high quality volume control after the dac is the best way to go.
Other than that its best to use the digital volume control inside ESS dacs since there is no way to bypass it anyway, and it operates at 32-bits. For dacs like AKM in direct DSD mode, there is no internal volume control in dac chip for that particular mode. In that case a high quality volume control after the dac is the best way to go.
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On ebay, "Douk" makes a small RCA volume control box you can get in the USA for <$50. They say its ALPS pot is 50k input impedance; unsure how that'll play with 7.4k south of it.
Maybe better than an accident for the time being, mouse clicking or trackpadding a computer volume adjustment.
Ultimately, if you decide to keep the amps with the <10K input Z, you'll probably want an active buffered volume control. Particularly if you keep the amps near the speakers and the line level cables connecting to them are long.
An alternate might be a good headphone amp - would certainly have the manual control, buffer and drive for lower than 7.4k load / long cables.
Maybe better than an accident for the time being, mouse clicking or trackpadding a computer volume adjustment.
Ultimately, if you decide to keep the amps with the <10K input Z, you'll probably want an active buffered volume control. Particularly if you keep the amps near the speakers and the line level cables connecting to them are long.
An alternate might be a good headphone amp - would certainly have the manual control, buffer and drive for lower than 7.4k load / long cables.
The B1 Buffer doesnt have a particularly low outputZ for a buffer, from memory 50Ω. doesnt have particularly high current capability either. I would think both specs would be matched or exceeded by most dacs one might purchase these days. well you could certainly fairly easily make sure the dac you bought exceeded that.
Hi,
little headphones dac with volume controle is indeed a good match and hard to beat in Q/P. Many have both SE Rca output & headphone jack.
Micro iDSD from Ifi is outstanding I found for the price. Volume pot is on the numeric side with 32 bits dac chip, I assume it means 16/44 Text boox is firstly upsampled but I'm not sure about that.
You can also do better if you have a classic dac with a numeric pot after which will not waste the soundstage as a passive volume pot does or color the sound either : I warmly advise you the Muse kit from Meldano here at Diya.
little headphones dac with volume controle is indeed a good match and hard to beat in Q/P. Many have both SE Rca output & headphone jack.
Micro iDSD from Ifi is outstanding I found for the price. Volume pot is on the numeric side with 32 bits dac chip, I assume it means 16/44 Text boox is firstly upsampled but I'm not sure about that.
You can also do better if you have a classic dac with a numeric pot after which will not waste the soundstage as a passive volume pot does or color the sound either : I warmly advise you the Muse kit from Meldano here at Diya.
Gain Structure is important, both for noise and to avoid those nasty full volume blasts. 
Amps without volume trim are a problem, they should all have them.
In the big, complex rigs that I used to run at home proper gain structure meant that only 10dB of digital volume control was ever needed and that was super clean. If your power amps don't have a volume trim, then either your DAC needs one or you'll have to put one between the DAC and power amps, which is really the same thing in a separate box. I have found that a 10K pot following a DAC did very well into most loads.
Amps without volume trim are a problem, they should all have them.In the big, complex rigs that I used to run at home proper gain structure meant that only 10dB of digital volume control was ever needed and that was super clean. If your power amps don't have a volume trim, then either your DAC needs one or you'll have to put one between the DAC and power amps, which is really the same thing in a separate box. I have found that a 10K pot following a DAC did very well into most loads.
Thanks everyone. I haven't got this across while yet though. I am running balanced cables. A lot of the gear you are suggesting is single-ended only. My balanced interconnects are going to only be about eight or 10ft long maximum. I also need remote control to keep those interconnect cables short. My only longer cable is a 25 ft USB cable to the DAC. What I got from the above post is that any passive volume control negatively affects the sound to some extent
Well, that sucks. LOL. I used to be into headphone about 12 or 15 years ago. At that time, the only headphone amplifier in this world I really like the sound of was he very expensive sbh from blue circle audio. No longer available and impossible to find. Of course, technology has gained Leaps and Bounds in that time. I may like many more of them now. But tbere will be no way I would know, now that headphone meets, and headphone shows are thing of the past with Covid rag8ng.
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