Go Back   Home > Forums > >

Digital Line Level DACs, Digital Crossovers, Equalizers, etc.

Connecting a Headphones DAC to Speakers
Connecting a Headphones DAC to Speakers
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 20th November 2020, 08:48 AM   #1
spaceman5 is offline spaceman5  Israel
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Default Connecting a Music player that contains a Headphones DAC to Speakers

Hi all


The companyh HiBy makes 2 nice Music Players:


HiBy R2:

Click the image to open in full size.

HiBy R2 MP3 Network Streaming Music Player HiRes Lossless Digital Audio Tidal MQA 5Gwifi LDAC DSD web radio Bluetooth 5.0|HiFi Players| - AliExpress


HiBy R3Pro:

Click the image to open in full size.

HiBy R3Pro MP3 Network Streaming Music Player HiRes Lossless Digital Audio Tidal MQA 5Gwifi LDAC DSD web radio dual CS43131|HiFi Players| - AliExpress


The HiBy R2 is based on ES9218,
and the HiBy R3Pro is based on 2x CS43131.


These 2 DAC chips are DACs that include a built-in Headphone Amplifier.


In my case, I do not use Headphones, only Speakers.
I have 2 Yamaha HS7 monitors (amplified), that I wish to connect one of these players to.


My question:
Does the fact that these 2 music players contain a Headphones DAC and not a regular DAC, affect/degrade the sound in any way,
when connecting one of these players to amplified speakers instead of to headphones?


Thank you

Last edited by spaceman5; 20th November 2020 at 12:13 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2020, 02:16 PM   #2
Markw4 is online now Markw4  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: California
The music players should likely sound about the same as with headphones if the headphone output is connected to the line level inputs of self powered speakers. Could even be the player will sound better than with headphones, since it is driving a load that probably draws less current than headphones would.

All the above having been said, music players using dacs with built-in headphone amps are optimized to use as little power as possible in order to run longer before needing the batteries recharged or replaced. That type of optimization is probably not same as optimizing for best sound quality instead. But if you like the sound of the player then you should be good.

Last edited by Markw4; 20th November 2020 at 02:23 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2020, 02:54 PM   #3
spaceman5 is offline spaceman5  Israel
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Thank you Mark

Quote:
Originally Posted by Markw4 View Post
All the above having been said, music players using dacs with built-in headphone amps are optimized to use as little power as possible in order to run longer before needing the batteries recharged or replaced. That type of optimization is probably not same as optimizing for best sound quality instead.
That's a good point.

BTW it reminds me another issue regarding DAC Power - DACs that are AC Powered (like AC Powered Amplifiers).
Did you feel a difference between an AC Powered DAC and a regular DC Powered DAC?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Markw4 View Post
But if you like the sound of the player then you should be good.
Actually I haven't heard any of these 2 players yet..
I would only be able to hear them after I buy one of them.
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2020, 03:37 PM   #4
Markw4 is online now Markw4  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: California
Quote:
Originally Posted by spaceman5 View Post
Did you feel a difference between an AC Powered DAC and a regular DC Powered DAC?
Ultimately, dac chips only run on DC power. If we start with AC then it depends on how well we do the conversion to DC.
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2020, 03:42 PM   #5
spaceman5 is offline spaceman5  Israel
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markw4 View Post
Ultimately, dac chips only run on DC power.
Aren't there DAC chips that their Digital side is DC Powered and their Analog side is AC (and Dual Rail) Powered?

(did I mix bewteen AC and Dual Rail?
do both always come together, or are separate?)

Last edited by spaceman5; 20th November 2020 at 03:45 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2020, 05:24 PM   #6
Markw4 is online now Markw4  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: California
Digital side is usually +3.3VDC, single rail. Analog side is usually dual rail, sometimes +-15VDC. Both analog and digital sides have the grounds connected together at the dac chip. If the Analog side is not dual rail, then usually DC blocking caps or audio transformers have to be used to connect the analog outputs to, say, an external amplifier or maybe a preamp, etc.

Last edited by Markw4; 20th November 2020 at 05:26 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 20th November 2020, 07:39 PM   #7
spaceman5 is offline spaceman5  Israel
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
I see.
So I incorrectly mixed between AC and Dual Rail, my apology.

So in that case, allow me to fix my question:
From your experience,
did you feel a difference between a DAC that its Analog side is Dual Rail powered vs a DAC that its Analog side is Single Rail Powered?

(I ask this to know if it's worth to find and buy one Dual Rail)


From what I was told here in the past, regarding Amplifiers,
DC blocking capacitors prevent getting to lower frequencies,
and avoiding DC blocking capacitors enables getting to lower frequencies..

But the DACs that I heard so far, can get to prertty nice lo frequencies, so I wonder is it really possible to go even further..

Last edited by spaceman5; 20th November 2020 at 07:42 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2020, 01:51 PM   #8
Markw4 is online now Markw4  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: California
Dual rail is mostly to allow removal of dac chip DC offset from ground without using a cap or a transformer to do it. Sound can be cleaner that way, but unless dac is a very good one where every little imperfection has been dealt with as much as possible, a suitable DC blocking cap in the signal path may not sound that much more imperfect. With cheap dacs usually there are so many other little imperfections, one more in the form of a DC blocking cap doesn't make a huge relative difference. So, maybe single rail analog output can suffice. Does that make sense?
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2020, 03:40 PM   #9
spaceman5 is offline spaceman5  Israel
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Markw4 View Post
Does that make sense?
Yes


BTW,
is the only way to get a Dual Rail power (+V,0,-V) is to start with AC Dual Rail,
or it's possible to take some DC (Single Rail), and then using some component to make it Dual Rail?

(if the second option is indeed possible, is it the same uality as starting with AC, or inferior to it and hence should not be used?)
  Reply With Quote
Old 21st November 2020, 03:44 PM   #10
Markw4 is online now Markw4  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: California
Dual rail can be generated from a single rail. Switching power supplies do that sort of thing all the time. The problem with switchers is that they tend to make a lot electrical noise that then has to be managed. It can be done, but it can be more trouble than its worth sometimes.

Probably better and easier to just to start with AC line power and use a power transformer with two or three separate secondary windings.

If you are interested, I think the forum store may sell Jan Didden's 'Silent Switcher' which can generate +-15 and +5v (or maybe +3.3v) from a 5v wall wart output. The biggest problem with that is wall warts usually generate a lot common mode RF on the their outputs. That RF hash can go right past silent switcher through the ground connections. On the other hand, if Silent Switcher is used with a linear power supply produced +5v as the input, then it might be a lot more suitable for generating dual rails for a dac. Of course, that type of switching power supply has a cost too, and IMHO is not as good for most dac purposes as a good dual rail or 3-rail linear power supply derived from separate power transformer windings. If battery operation is a requirement, then something like Silent Switcher might be a good choice.

Last edited by Markw4; 21st November 2020 at 03:56 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


Connecting a Headphones DAC to SpeakersHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Connecting Headphones Directly to OPT in SET L0rdGwyn Tubes / Valves 17 29th May 2020 08:17 AM
connecting headphones to a small Tripath amp? Brisso57 Class D 10 14th September 2015 06:12 AM
connecting headphones to speakers cables inside laptop abducted Everything Else 1 4th August 2014 07:36 PM
Connecting headphones to guitar amp speaker output mike6182 Instruments and Amps 6 21st November 2007 11:20 AM
DAC directly drives headphones & speakers ? Bernhard Digital Source 21 13th January 2005 06:02 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:38 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 15.00%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2021 diyAudio
Wiki