How did you power the JL sounds? Single or dual supply and what kind? I have the vIII with single Ultrabib on click/isolators and I am overally happy. Still, I hear a large effect when I change PC players or its settings (ASIO, wasapi, KS, buffer sizes etc). So it looks like PC jitter or noise is not sufficiently surpressed. Not sure whether other boards exist that do this better though...
Or is it because I do not power the first part (xmos) independently?
ASIO, if configured properly is the only way to avoid Windows Sound Engine resampling all your digital audio in real time, and not doing it very well.
Also, players with any DSP engaged will likely change the sound. The cleanest player for PC for me seems to be foobar2000 with no DSP enabled, and using ASIO drivers. In addition Windows sound settings must be configured so that the ASIO sound device you are using is not set to be the "Default Sound Device" nor set to be the "Default Communications Device."
Regarding I2SoverUSB v.III, unless the PC has some pathological power problems, it is enough to run the USB board with only one power supply. For best results that should be from a dedicated winding on an R-core power transformer.
Also, players with any DSP engaged will likely change the sound. The cleanest player for PC for me seems to be foobar2000 with no DSP enabled, and using ASIO drivers. In addition Windows sound settings must be configured so that the ASIO sound device you are using is not set to be the "Default Sound Device" nor set to be the "Default Communications Device."
Regarding I2SoverUSB v.III, unless the PC has some pathological power problems, it is enough to run the USB board with only one power supply. For best results that should be from a dedicated winding on an R-core power transformer.
Hi Mark,
Thanks for sharing this. My understanding is that KS and Wasapi exclusive will also avoid Windows audio processing. Though my XMOS driver from JL sounds does mixing (of simultaneous sources) even in ASIO. Interesting remark about default sound device. What is the effect of this? I have system sounds disabled.
I have a toroid transformer for my supply currently.
Thanks for sharing this. My understanding is that KS and Wasapi exclusive will also avoid Windows audio processing. Though my XMOS driver from JL sounds does mixing (of simultaneous sources) even in ASIO. Interesting remark about default sound device. What is the effect of this? I have system sounds disabled.
I have a toroid transformer for my supply currently.
I am not a big fan of Foobar by the way. Do not like the GUI though it probably can be customized better. The ASIO plugin I use is buggy. I did try out some new players recently. I like Winyl. Sounds good with ASIO and is fast and user friendly. I also shortly tried XXHighend.... Sounds good but the user experience is...
I improved sound further by changing the Windows power scheme (put CPU to full clock) and prioritizing background tasks. Turning off virus scanner also helps but is less practical...
I improved sound further by changing the Windows power scheme (put CPU to full clock) and prioritizing background tasks. Turning off virus scanner also helps but is less practical...
hi fedde,
Regarding Wasapi exclusive mode, in principle that could work but don't know if there are any drivers that fully support exclusive. Most of the reliable Windows dac drivers are licensed from Thesycon: Thesycon - USB Software development for Windows Operating Systems ...So far as I have been able to tell, ASIO is still most likely to play without interference.
The Windows settings I was talking about are in the Windows Control Panel/Sound applet. In the screenshot below, one can see the green circle checkmark next to the audio device. If there is a green checkmark due the device being set as a Windows 'default' device, then sample rate will always as shown in the configuration panel on the right (and any automatic resampling will not be good). Therefore, at least two sound devices are needed, one to assign as the default device and the other to play music.
Regarding the reliability of foobar ASIO, I find it works fine with the USB sound cards I have (better than HQ Player in certain cases).
Regarding Wasapi exclusive mode, in principle that could work but don't know if there are any drivers that fully support exclusive. Most of the reliable Windows dac drivers are licensed from Thesycon: Thesycon - USB Software development for Windows Operating Systems ...So far as I have been able to tell, ASIO is still most likely to play without interference.
The Windows settings I was talking about are in the Windows Control Panel/Sound applet. In the screenshot below, one can see the green circle checkmark next to the audio device. If there is a green checkmark due the device being set as a Windows 'default' device, then sample rate will always as shown in the configuration panel on the right (and any automatic resampling will not be good). Therefore, at least two sound devices are needed, one to assign as the default device and the other to play music.
Regarding the reliability of foobar ASIO, I find it works fine with the USB sound cards I have (better than HQ Player in certain cases).
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Just to chip in with my 2p. I started with a waveio which was superb. I then upgraded to a sonore audiobyte (Sonore - Discontinued Products - last product on this page) and then tweaked and tweaked the USB interface until I tried a pimped up raspberry pi with Ian Canada's reclocker feeding an I2S signal straight into the DAC and I decided that USB didn't sound anything like as good.
That was a about 2 years ago and it's only now that I read somewhere about the jlsounds card being good enough to tempt one back to USB. Why come back? The lure of DSD...raspberry pi doesn't go a bundle on DSD via I2S. Still undecided as I really can't be bothered to go through the whole turd (USB) polishing exercise...but perfection is always tempting.
Thanks to Markw4 for some really informative posts in this thread (and many others) - much appreciated as ever.
That was a about 2 years ago and it's only now that I read somewhere about the jlsounds card being good enough to tempt one back to USB. Why come back? The lure of DSD...raspberry pi doesn't go a bundle on DSD via I2S. Still undecided as I really can't be bothered to go through the whole turd (USB) polishing exercise...but perfection is always tempting.
Thanks to Markw4 for some really informative posts in this thread (and many others) - much appreciated as ever.
JL Sounds I2SoverUSB is very good, but not perfect. The NDK SDA clocks are good, but they are buffered by, and can be divided in frequency by a CPLD, which I believe degrades jitter some. Haven't followed Ian's FIFO_Pi since the first version, so don't know specifics about the latest.
What I can say is that I2SoverUSB also can work with an external master clock, which how I use it. I also reclock before the dac. Since there is a final reclock and there is galvanic isolation in I2SoverUSB, I suspect it probably sounds similar to what Ian is doing these days.
What I can say is that I2SoverUSB also can work with an external master clock, which how I use it. I also reclock before the dac. Since there is a final reclock and there is galvanic isolation in I2SoverUSB, I suspect it probably sounds similar to what Ian is doing these days.
So Markw4 you liked better the Chinese usb from AliX you highlighted already over the JLSounds ?
Community is needing something like a Pi as renderer but with the quality of a sd card player. Seems odd to me the few last years it has not be made by some micro companies like Allo or diyers yet because of the better chips and research made here and elsewhere and tweaks, etc... the last FifoPi is good but not good enough like you say because of the trade offs as well as the JLSounds, etc... Although they have the merit to exist hence very welcome for our diy needs yet
Community is needing something like a Pi as renderer but with the quality of a sd card player. Seems odd to me the few last years it has not be made by some micro companies like Allo or diyers yet because of the better chips and research made here and elsewhere and tweaks, etc... the last FifoPi is good but not good enough like you say because of the trade offs as well as the JLSounds, etc... Although they have the merit to exist hence very welcome for our diy needs yet
The Chinese USB board with AS318B clocks sounds a lot like the clocking of Topping D90. However, the USB board only enables one clock at time and for me anyway it took 3-days for the sound of an enabled clock to stabilize. The other thing is they need to be modified for clean power like Amanero USB boards, either that use a USB Y-cable to give it clean 5v power. Also, like AK4499 the clocks are buffered by a CPLD, which may be part of the characteristic sound.
I liked the sound of AS318 better than NDK SDA, at least as they were implemented on the USB boards in question. Neither was perfect though. As mentioned a couple of posts up, best so far has been I2SoverUSB with external clock, and then reclocking before the dac. That said both of the USB boards are still pretty good, the best I have heard from USB board clocks.
I liked the sound of AS318 better than NDK SDA, at least as they were implemented on the USB boards in question. Neither was perfect though. As mentioned a couple of posts up, best so far has been I2SoverUSB with external clock, and then reclocking before the dac. That said both of the USB boards are still pretty good, the best I have heard from USB board clocks.
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In the meantime I did some more configuration and player experiments. There are quite a lot audiophile players, like HQplayer, Jplay, XXHighend, WTFplay etc. They supposedly all sound different. Their websites, fora and reviews contain a lot of info on audio configuration optimisations. I returned to kernel streaming with small buffer size (32 samples). This after all sounds much better compared to the previous config, ASIO at 2048. More realistic piano's, better stereo placement and depth, more detail. I also found quite some info on the net why the buffer sizes and chosen driver interface actually matters. And that it is very hard to make DACs fully resistant against USB packet noise.
Thanks for the further input. Yes it's an understood thing than all their Powersupplies needs attention.
Well they are all in the same ballpark... they should not have decided for two speed families... and why not a dozen also, pffff. And with the upsampling, it beginns to be a lot of hassle.
Well they are all in the same ballpark... they should not have decided for two speed families... and why not a dozen also, pffff. And with the upsampling, it beginns to be a lot of hassle.
I tried to finde this jumper ...is there any documentation ? Looks like a real winner, but only in those settings ?
Markw4,
May I ask if this is still the ersion you suggest ?
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4001...42311.0.0.5efd4c4d1Sn46p&gatewayAdapt=glo2deu
I saw different pic in the comments of different version of the card...and this one here has NDK-clocks.., not Accusilicon ?
May I ask if this is still the ersion you suggest ?
https://de.aliexpress.com/item/4001...42311.0.0.5efd4c4d1Sn46p&gatewayAdapt=glo2deu
I saw different pic in the comments of different version of the card...and this one here has NDK-clocks.., not Accusilicon ?
Blitz,
The one I thought had the best clocks was the one with AS-318B clocks. Maybe like the one at:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/225...616545384595286375e1eea!10000003034108126!sea
However, the price is getting high enough these days that it might make more sense to get an I2SoverUSB board:
http://jlsounds.com/i2soverusb.html
The one I thought had the best clocks was the one with AS-318B clocks. Maybe like the one at:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/225...616545384595286375e1eea!10000003034108126!sea
However, the price is getting high enough these days that it might make more sense to get an I2SoverUSB board:
http://jlsounds.com/i2soverusb.html