Hopefully ;-)
Not only we have various systems, but we (all of us) probably do not look at the same things as requisite.
Reading the last comment of Markw4 makes the thing clear, now. It is all about détails and separation. Not character of the sound itself. This seems logical, and the details of the description of his listening experience tells me that he knows how to listen, and that we are looking, him and me, to the same things.
So, I will follow your both advice. Buy a Toping D50 (or an other similar), leave-it as it with a good isolated PSU as a beginning (batteries ?), and see, if I'm not fully satisfied as it, what I can mod in it to go further.
Mark, thanks a lot, you cannot imagine hos much you had helped-me.
Sorry, there is a bit more. There can be false clarity caused by low level HD and low level jitter effects. If there is a sense of clarity and detail, but listening doesn't hold your attention for long, that is why some people complain about S-D dacs and prefer dacs like R2R. A really good S-D dac can make listening for long periods of time a captivating pleasure, but to get to that level with S-D does require the best anyone knows how to do. Upsampling to DSD helps a get a lot closer to that ideal, at least with currently available S-D dacs. For that you need native DSD at a high sample rate and a better dac than Topping. Unfortunately, the the Topping design is too compact and hard to deal with for some types of modding. Better to start with a $39 ES9038Q2M board.
Also, I am starting to make progress with my Iancanada dac. The dac board, some power supplies, the output stage board, and an good USB board might supply the makings of a pretty good dac without much cost or construction work. There are still some issues to resolve, but I would much rather try to work on that vs Topping. Thing to do with Topping if you decide you want better is to throw it away or sell if if you can, then start with a dac more suitable for doing what needs to be done. IMHO only, of course.
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Very "hifi" ? All what I hate.Right now, I'm just trying to listen via the Kef LS50 a piano that sound so realistic, strong, with all the realistic fast attacks of the hammers on the chords on my big system, and don't even understand what the hell they are doing, at Kef: Trebles, trebles with a cheap body like light plastic under them !
A piano ? Closer to a harpsichord!
I don't understand all this B.S. I've read about those enclosures.
About the upper basses, I'm not too afraid, my sub (18" 2241H JBL will take care of this. It move some air. ;-)
The problem is I don't want to spend time on the box, drills and screws etc.
and all the sh... that goes with it.
But, if you say I will be unsatisfied with it, and modding-it correctly is too hard, i will change my mind.
I can't say for you. I can say I would be unsatisfied with it, with probably >95% certainty.
EDIT: Pic of my progress with Iancanada dac below.
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Right now, I'm just trying to listen via the Kef LS50 a piano that sound so realistic, strong, with all the realistic fast attacks of the hammers on the chords on my big system, and don't even understand what the hell they are doing, at Kef: Trebles, trebles with a cheap body like light plastic under them !
A piano ? Closer to a harpsichord!
I don't understand all this B.S. I've read about those enclosures.
About the upper basses, I'm not too afraid, my sub (18" 2241H JBL will take care of this. It move some air. ;-)
haha, yes, it sounds glamorous
your appreciation of the kef is pin point.
Thanks.haha, yes, it sounds glamorous
I believe there is a lot of differences in the people's expectations in so called "HIFI".
If some rave about this or that aspect of reproduction of their speakers, personally it's just what makes me go running away. I'm just trying to get a reproduction of the instruments that I know well as credible as possible, in their absolute banality. It has never happened to anyone to rave about the presence of a friend's voice during a conversation ;-)
My problems with DACs, till now, is to can achieve this separation that makes the listening easy, and get rid of all the shiny effects that comes often with them.
In a way, I prefer to listen to my cheap PC speakers set that are blur but balanced, that those Kef, which attracts attention to them rather than the musicians.
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True, Tournesol, you would love the tda1541 is OS4x mode. I cannot recommend any other dac that sounds more banal! and gives you that 'separation that makes the listening easy and get rid of all the shinny effects'.
I heard that the tda1549 too is good. Anyways, I bought 2 sony CD players with the TDA1541 :
555 esd, some other super hifi that I broke and gutted out!!! OMG i am bad...
and a number 3 (707es was mine) with some mystery dac : Access forbidden
Stock they are not that good, but 2 of those cd players have tda1541 and they have great potential...
After I bought 3 board from analogmetric kits of tda1541, I gutted my tda1541A and sold if on Ebay for $50, then I build the kit BUT it was a mess of parasitics so I threw it in the garbage with the other sony cd player....
Then I build a second board and it still had the parasitics and noise build up, but I had a custom I/V stage with regulated custom power supplies and it was super nice sounding, now I have a 3rd board unpopulated, a few tda1541R and tda1541 plain from china. I don't know what I did with the re-clockers and I am missing a few bits like the input transformer, and the ferrite chokes.
It is not very nice to build kits and they work very bad... from analogmetric, now I don't trust those china kits, except a few ones that worked but I ended up destroying them modding too much.
I heard that the tda1549 too is good. Anyways, I bought 2 sony CD players with the TDA1541 :
555 esd, some other super hifi that I broke and gutted out!!! OMG i am bad...
and a number 3 (707es was mine) with some mystery dac : Access forbidden
Stock they are not that good, but 2 of those cd players have tda1541 and they have great potential...
After I bought 3 board from analogmetric kits of tda1541, I gutted my tda1541A and sold if on Ebay for $50, then I build the kit BUT it was a mess of parasitics so I threw it in the garbage with the other sony cd player....
Then I build a second board and it still had the parasitics and noise build up, but I had a custom I/V stage with regulated custom power supplies and it was super nice sounding, now I have a 3rd board unpopulated, a few tda1541R and tda1541 plain from china. I don't know what I did with the re-clockers and I am missing a few bits like the input transformer, and the ferrite chokes.
It is not very nice to build kits and they work very bad... from analogmetric, now I don't trust those china kits, except a few ones that worked but I ended up destroying them modding too much.
Excellent posts.
"Aye, ya cannut cut 'n strap digital as if it werrrr simply analog!" (Scotty)
Fer digital: planes matter, trace inductance matters, small loop area matters, pitch matters, close bypassing matters, RFI ingress and egress matters, enclosure matters, grounding matters, EMC matters, etc...
Almost all difficult to DIY.
Copper tape and fly caps don't cut it.
You can't cutnstrap a Topping and make it better, ... only worse.
You can DIY digital, but ... you have to know what you're doing. (Some here do)
Those with google-fu can hopefully find the Topping Topper (More Vregs w good layout)
Cheers
PS Glad I didn't misspell "cutnstrap"!
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The problem is that i do need 24/96 and 32Bits internal for volume control.
I have some DACS in various gears: DAT and minidisk Sony, CD Marantz, creative EMU, Chromecast ...
i have a friend with a VERY good system (JBL M2), and often the same 'taste' than me, that seems satisfied with his 3098 OPPO.
I already improved that design but you can have fun with it and post your improvements,
It is fed with a regulated supply of +-15V to 18V. You have mono boards or stereo boards, I used mine with mono boards with a DC servo to get rid of the output capacitor, however I prefer it without the DC servo, here is a schematic for multisim without the servo and power supply which is proprietary the trimpot in the schematic is to null the DC out of the tdat1541 for best performance!
I included picture too of my own revision, https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=756954&stc=1&d=1557967885NOTE: the 2.7K input resistor is for a V-OUT dac, you bypass it to feed a I-OUT dac.
Not shown: regulated power supply with adjustable bias to nul the DC output, however it can be used with output capacitor after the 200ohm output resistor into a 10K to 100K input stage.
Please rename the TXT file to ms12 to open in multisim
It is fed with a regulated supply of +-15V to 18V. You have mono boards or stereo boards, I used mine with mono boards with a DC servo to get rid of the output capacitor, however I prefer it without the DC servo, here is a schematic for multisim without the servo and power supply which is proprietary
the trimpot in the schematic is to null the DC out of the tdat1541 for best performance!I included picture too of my own revision, https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=756954&stc=1&d=1557967885NOTE: the 2.7K input resistor is for a V-OUT dac, you bypass it to feed a I-OUT dac.
Not shown: regulated power supply with adjustable bias to nul the DC output, however it can be used with output capacitor after the 200ohm output resistor into a 10K to 100K input stage.
Please rename the TXT file to ms12 to open in multisim
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I do love that : DAC2.1 abbasaudio KIT,5v RMS,6sn7,TDA1541R1,CS8414,klangfilm parts | eBay
Direct to the Cir logic receive, no input transformer, not even the is2 attenuator, no re-clocking LOL, N.OS and look at that USB supply!!! wow. (I cannot find my old board with all dexa and reclockers I think it is gone in garbage)
Direct to the Cir logic receive, no input transformer, not even the is2 attenuator, no re-clocking LOL, N.OS and look at that USB supply!!! wow. (I cannot find my old board with all dexa and reclockers
I think it is gone in garbage)
How do you know? Have you tried? Or do you mean by 'worse' only 'worse numbers' not 'worse sound' ?
Hello,
Despite 24/96 or 32 bits for volume control, I beleive a good 16 to 20 bits DAC is enough. That's crazy all you can extract from a good recorded RedBook disc if your dac is ok : bass are ok, mid-bass slam as well, cymbals are ok, no harchness nor too much smooth sounds (easy to set up as you like the best anyway), micro and macro dynamic, decade of the notes, lowest note of the piano (23 Hz?) if your speaker and room support it, etc...
The volume control of a 32 bits is a temptation but thanks to some very good volume chip as the Muse one (kits here at Diya) without internal opamp gives you enough to reach the same level of clearness and dynamic at ears (good luck to hear a difference between a Muse volume control chip well implemented and an internal 32 bits volume control... both are away from our hearing capacities. You can put it between your buffer on the dac and your amp.
I do agree with gabdx but on the oversampling, it's just a mater of taste as far your TDA1541 dac or else (AD 1862, AD1865, PCM63, etc) is good enough. Clocking them is easier to acheive than Delta Sigma chips and allow you to use a separate good clocking system around a source to I2S output. Way more difficult with higher speed clock of todays delta sigma chips (100 M Hz..) which need huge layout efforts, especially the pcb & grounding scheme.
Well, as we are all biased about our dacs, I'm sure there are belgian diyaudio members around you with such old dac chips in your country. You should compare their dac at home if they agree, with your Chi-Fi Dac or soundcards you want to tweak before invest time and effort. I do think we are also biased by personal sounding tastes despite we also listen to acoustical events in venues. Cause listening was/is a learning aesthical curve... I don't believe to the myth of getting at home what you hear in venues, when we are close to that we like often to superimpose our learned tastes (vynil llistening, tubes, SS, class D, and of course prefered tonal balance : moe towards the treble or medium or bass, etc... flat curve is a myth but on the graphs and if so always sounds bad.)
cheers
You must be talking about the positive remarks by Mr. Lukasz Fikus of "Lampizator" fame.
IIRC he simply took a CD player with the tda1549 and installed a tube follower at the output.
I would be interested in designing my own dac with it and hearing what the chip is capable of. This chip was after all designed by the same bright fellows that did the TDA1545, TDA1387. There´s an interesting paper about it.
It is not DIY friendly. The input to the chip must be 4 times oversampled, 18 bit wordlenght. The bitclock must be 192 times FS, which mandates a master clock of 384 times FS (16.9344 MHz).
I could use a PMD100 DF with it, I saved a couple of these DFs (didn´t use them yet). I have no oscillator at that frequency though.
Datasheet:
http://www.lampizator.eu/lampizator/LINKS AND DOWNLOADS/DATAMINING/tda_1549.pdf
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