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Effects of DACs defaults on our listening experience.
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Old 15th May 2019, 11:42 AM   #21
gabdx is offline gabdx  Canada
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ess uses inductors for decimation, I heard very good implementation of the chip and I was very shocked to see such admiration for a very ordinary sound with some defects to the upper bass, unstable imo. Sound is very hifi in a bad way.
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Old 15th May 2019, 05:02 PM   #22
Tournesol is offline Tournesol  Belgium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
There is zero consensus on these, despite what others may try to tell you.
Hopefully ;-)
Not only we have various systems, but we (all of us) probably do not look at the same things as requisite.

Reading the last comment of Markw4 makes the thing clear, now. It is all about détails and separation. Not character of the sound itself. This seems logical, and the details of the description of his listening experience tells me that he knows how to listen, and that we are looking, him and me, to the same things.
So, I will follow your both advice. Buy a Toping D50 (or an other similar), leave-it as it with a good isolated PSU as a beginning (batteries ?), and see, if I'm not fully satisfied as it, what I can mod in it to go further.

Mark, thanks a lot, you cannot imagine hos much you had helped-me.
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Old 15th May 2019, 05:25 PM   #23
Markw4 is offline Markw4  United States
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tournesol View Post
Reading the last comment of Markw4 makes the thing clear, now. It is all about détails and separation. Not character of the sound itself.
Sorry, there is a bit more. There can be false clarity caused by low level HD and low level jitter effects. If there is a sense of clarity and detail, but listening doesn't hold your attention for long, that is why some people complain about S-D dacs and prefer dacs like R2R. A really good S-D dac can make listening for long periods of time a captivating pleasure, but to get to that level with S-D does require the best anyone knows how to do. Upsampling to DSD helps a get a lot closer to that ideal, at least with currently available S-D dacs. For that you need native DSD at a high sample rate and a better dac than Topping. Unfortunately, the the Topping design is too compact and hard to deal with for some types of modding. Better to start with a $39 ES9038Q2M board.

Also, I am starting to make progress with my Iancanada dac. The dac board, some power supplies, the output stage board, and an good USB board might supply the makings of a pretty good dac without much cost or construction work. There are still some issues to resolve, but I would much rather try to work on that vs Topping. Thing to do with Topping if you decide you want better is to throw it away or sell if if you can, then start with a dac more suitable for doing what needs to be done. IMHO only, of course.

Last edited by Markw4; 15th May 2019 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 15th May 2019, 05:37 PM   #24
Tournesol is offline Tournesol  Belgium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gabdx View Post
I heard very good implementation of the chip and I was very shocked to see such admiration for a very ordinary sound with some defects to the upper bass, unstable imo. Sound is very hifi in a bad way.
:-) Very "hifi" ? All what I hate.
Right now, I'm just trying to listen via the Kef LS50 a piano that sound so realistic, strong, with all the realistic fast attacks of the hammers on the chords on my big system, and don't even understand what the hell they are doing, at Kef: Trebles, trebles with a cheap body like light plastic under them !
A piano ? Closer to a harpsichord!
I don't understand all this B.S. I've read about those enclosures.

About the upper basses, I'm not too afraid, my sub (18" 2241H JBL will take care of this. It move some air. ;-)
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Old 15th May 2019, 05:45 PM   #25
Tournesol is offline Tournesol  Belgium
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markw4 View Post
Unfortunately, the the Topping design is too compact and hard to deal with for some types of modding. Better to start with a $39 ES9038Q2M board.
The problem is I don't want to spend time on the box, drills and screws etc.
and all the sh... that goes with it.
But, if you say I will be unsatisfied with it, and modding-it correctly is too hard, i will change my mind.
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Old 15th May 2019, 06:05 PM   #26
Markw4 is offline Markw4  United States
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Originally Posted by Tournesol View Post
...if you say I will be unsatisfied with it...
I can't say for you. I can say I would be unsatisfied with it, with probably >95% certainty.

EDIT: Pic of my progress with Iancanada dac below.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IanDac2b.jpg (953.9 KB, 50 views)

Last edited by Markw4; 15th May 2019 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 15th May 2019, 06:40 PM   #27
gabdx is offline gabdx  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tournesol View Post
:-) Very "hifi" ? All what I hate.
Right now, I'm just trying to listen via the Kef LS50 a piano that sound so realistic, strong, with all the realistic fast attacks of the hammers on the chords on my big system, and don't even understand what the hell they are doing, at Kef: Trebles, trebles with a cheap body like light plastic under them !
A piano ? Closer to a harpsichord!
I don't understand all this B.S. I've read about those enclosures.

About the upper basses, I'm not too afraid, my sub (18" 2241H JBL will take care of this. It move some air. ;-)
haha, yes, it sounds glamorous your appreciation of the kef is pin point.
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Old 15th May 2019, 07:20 PM   #28
Tournesol is offline Tournesol  Belgium
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Originally Posted by gabdx View Post
haha, yes, it sounds glamorous your appreciation of the kef is pin point.
Thanks.
I believe there is a lot of differences in the people's expectations in so called "HIFI".

If some rave about this or that aspect of reproduction of their speakers, personally it's just what makes me go running away. I'm just trying to get a reproduction of the instruments that I know well as credible as possible, in their absolute banality. It has never happened to anyone to rave about the presence of a friend's voice during a conversation ;-)
My problems with DACs, till now, is to can achieve this separation that makes the listening easy, and get rid of all the shiny effects that comes often with them.
In a way, I prefer to listen to my cheap PC speakers set that are blur but balanced, that those Kef, which attracts attention to them rather than the musicians.
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Last edited by Tournesol; 15th May 2019 at 07:22 PM.
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Old 15th May 2019, 11:28 PM   #29
gabdx is offline gabdx  Canada
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True, Tournesol, you would love the tda1541 is OS4x mode. I cannot recommend any other dac that sounds more banal! and gives you that 'separation that makes the listening easy and get rid of all the shinny effects'.

I heard that the tda1549 too is good. Anyways, I bought 2 sony CD players with the TDA1541 :

555 esd, some other super hifi that I broke and gutted out!!! OMG i am bad...

and a number 3 (707es was mine) with some mystery dac : Access forbidden

Stock they are not that good, but 2 of those cd players have tda1541 and they have great potential...

After I bought 3 board from analogmetric kits of tda1541, I gutted my tda1541A and sold if on Ebay for $50, then I build the kit BUT it was a mess of parasitics so I threw it in the garbage with the other sony cd player....

Then I build a second board and it still had the parasitics and noise build up, but I had a custom I/V stage with regulated custom power supplies and it was super nice sounding, now I have a 3rd board unpopulated, a few tda1541R and tda1541 plain from china. I don't know what I did with the re-clockers and I am missing a few bits like the input transformer, and the ferrite chokes.

It is not very nice to build kits and they work very bad... from analogmetric, now I don't trust those china kits, except a few ones that worked but I ended up destroying them modding too much.
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Old 15th May 2019, 11:36 PM   #30
AudioLapDance is offline AudioLapDance  Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chris719 View Post
...

My observation is that the majority of mods done by members here actually make their gear objectively worse.

I'd just buy the Topping and leave it alone.
Excellent posts.

"Aye, ya cannut cut 'n strap digital as if it werrrr simply analog!" (Scotty)

Fer digital: planes matter, trace inductance matters, small loop area matters, pitch matters, close bypassing matters, RFI ingress and egress matters, enclosure matters, grounding matters, EMC matters, etc...

Almost all difficult to DIY.


Copper tape and fly caps don't cut it.


You can't cutnstrap a Topping and make it better, ... only worse.

You can DIY digital, but ... you have to know what you're doing. (Some here do)



Those with google-fu can hopefully find the Topping Topper (More Vregs w good layout)

Cheers

PS Glad I didn't misspell "cutnstrap"!

Last edited by AudioLapDance; 15th May 2019 at 11:57 PM.
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