Looking for a Recommendation for an Old MultiBit DAC that can be Purchased Today

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Can you please also mention some places for buying MultiBit DACs today in 2019?

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UTsource
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I can't recommend them any more. Reason:
I ordered from them richly stocked chips. They canceled/modified my order because the item is "sold out" (even the stock count was rich during the order) and they offered me a refund to my account in UTsource (I told them I am not interested in their account and I asked for the refund back to my paypal, they refunded). I checked the availability of canceled item and I saw, that the stock count for it is untouched (even now), but the price has risen sharply! So probably this price increase was a reason for not complying with my order.
So not only positives but also negatives need to be mentioned.
 
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miro1360,
UTsource looks like an eBay broker..
As If they buy from eBay, and then send you..

I say this because their listings appear to be not stock that they hold, but more like something from outer sources..

If this is the case, then it means their components cannot be trusted..
 
I can't recommend them any more. Reason:
I ordered from them richly stocked chips. They canceled/modified my order because the item is "sold out" (even the stock count was rich during the order) and they offered me a refund to my account in UTsource (I told them I am not interested in their account and I asked for the refund back to my paypal, they refunded). I checked the availability of canceled item and I saw, that the stock count for it is untouched (even now), but the price has risen sharply! So probably this price increase was a reason for not complying with my order.
So not only positives but also negatives need to be mentioned.

This also happened to me...Coincidental??? Your guess is as good as mine
 
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I was browsing the Rochester Electronics site today and I see that they no longer have a large minimum number for various dac chips.

They have AD1860, AD1862, AD1865, PCM54, PCM56, PCM1704 in large quantities and the minimum order is now one chip.

I have never purchased from Rochester Electronics and I wonder whether they use courier or USPS for shipping, and what do they charge for shipping.
 
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that so many projects based on modern S-D chips devote substantial effort towards bypassing the on-chip additional features provided? No matter which chip is being used the digital upsampling filter has to be thrown out and replaced with something better externally. Then if the chip is ESS, the internal SRC has to be switched off and even (if I understand correctly) various internal modulators need to be routed around and for best results, only DSD fed in from an external DSD-generating chip.

So efforts to get the best SQ from S-D chips seem always to involve finding ways to defeat internal stuff, not simply making the external support circuits the best they can be. To me this is like starting any design from square -1, rather than square 0.

I can understand that for the upsampling filters:

1. Almost all digital filters built into DAC chips have an intersample overshoot problem on peak sample normalized recordings (as solving this by keeping some headroom would reduce the dynamic range numbers somewhat, and the higher the dynamic range numbers, the better the DACs sell).
2. There is no consensus at all at the moment about what would be the best type of filter for a high-performance audio DAC, especially at high sample rates.

Connect your own FPGA to the DAC and you can tweak the filters as much as you like.
 
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that so many projects based on modern S-D chips devote substantial effort towards bypassing the on-chip additional features provided? No matter which chip is being used the digital upsampling filter has to be thrown out and replaced with something better externally. Then if the chip is ESS, the internal SRC has to be switched off and even (if I understand correctly) various internal modulators need to be routed around and for best results, only DSD fed in from an external DSD-generating chip.

So efforts to get the best SQ from S-D chips seem always to involve finding ways to defeat internal stuff, not simply making the external support circuits the best they can be. To me this is like starting any design from square -1, rather than square 0.

Well, I happen to think they are nuts. They sound excellent as-is. People want to tinker, they want to feel like they are doing something useful.
 
Probably the cheapest way to get authentic chips is to study the Dutch site for CDP and shop for a used unit in working condition. I just looked at the Rochester Electronics site and priced PCM1704 chips, 70 bucks each with a minimum buy of 4 pieces. You could buy a lot of old CDP for that kind of money.



BillWojo
 
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Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that so many projects based on modern S-D chips devote substantial effort towards bypassing the on-chip additional features provided? No matter which chip is being used the digital upsampling filter has to be thrown out and replaced with something better externally. Then if the chip is ESS, the internal SRC has to be switched off and even (if I understand correctly) various internal modulators need to be routed around and for best results, only DSD fed in from an external DSD-generating chip.

So efforts to get the best SQ from S-D chips seem always to involve finding ways to defeat internal stuff, not simply making the external support circuits the best they can be. To me this is like starting any design from square -1, rather than square 0.

Agreed.
 
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Single chip purchases of the Analog Devices chips are still allowed.

Maybe this is a glitch in their website. If not, it is a good opportunity to purchase genuine AD1865N-K chips.
 

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Abraxalito and Others,
DAC chips like ESS ones are designed to sell for use in many different end products. What ESS cares about most is sales volume. Not all the features are suitable for products at all ends of the spectrum. Benchmark found out long ago how to turn off the internal PCM filters and use their own filter for better sound quality. Other people tried operating the chips in every possible configuration. It turns out that some configurations sound better than others, although it can add expense and or complexity to a design if some features are turned off. For some designers, what they want more than anything is the best possible sound quality. Turning stuff off often sounds better if one runs subjective experiments, even if its more work in the end for a designer and more expense for a customer. What do you want cheap and easy, or good?
 
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Abraxalito and Others,
DAC chips like ESS ones are designed to sell for use in many different end products. What do you want cheap and easy, or good?

Well, good. Which is why I moved on from the 8-10 variants of Es9038q2m/9018k2m etc. I've tried and got a Sabaj D5 Es9038Pro for $460. It is better, no contest, not even close. Why? Who knows, There's plenty of conjecture about the Pro chips vs. their other chips and a few revealed nuggets but since ESS treats these dacs like JJ Abrams 'mystery box' shows that keep you guessing until the final season, we'll probably never know. In the end I returned back to my Soekris 1021 multi-bit, modded the heck out of it in just a few weeks and couldn't be happier.
 
What do you want cheap and easy, or good?

@Mark - it does seem to me that the dichotomy exists only in relation to ESS DAC chips. I'm not aware of having to choose between cheap and easy on one hand and good (sounding) on the other. For my ears, and so far my customers' ears, TDA1387 ticks all three of those boxes.

* Cheap (under $0.03 a chip), though it has to be said there are some rejects at that price.

* Easy - only 8 pins, 2 layer PCBs perfectly adequate. PSRR of 30dB or so.

* Good : plenty satisfying sound, though it depends to a large degree on I/V stage implementation details. Nevertheless there are reports of listener satisfaction with just 'naked' TDA1387 implementations - for example here : Dirt cheap USB only Phillips TDA1837 R2R DAC sounds wonderful | Audiokarma Home Audio Stereo Discussion Forums

On the topic of I/V I've found quite recently that with using a classD amp, no explicit I/V stage is even needed - a current output DAC can feed current all the way to the classD amp's input. The typical config for a classD amp is you have an input integrator (opamp or OTA of some description) operating in inverting mode - there's an input resistor which converts the input voltage to a current and its often a lowish value (3k seems common). In my latest experiments this 3k resistor _is_ the I/V conversion of the DAC which to my way of thinking is elegantly simple. It allows elimination of an active I/V and buffer stage in applications where the DAC isn't in a separate box but is part of an audio system solution.
 
@Mark - it does seem to me that the dichotomy exists only in relation to ESS DAC chips.

Yes. I was only attempting to respond to what you said about not understanding why people turn off everything in ESS dacs.

By the way, I would not dismiss ladder dacs by any means. Holo Springs in China seems to be making the most interesting ones at this point, but getting the best sound out of them isn't cheap (takes a fast computer to make DSD1024), and they do have some audible flaws. Still, they have a whole lot of what is good about ladder dacs and not so good about SD.
 
Perhaps I didn't express myself as clearly as I might have done then. I do understand (from many of your posts on the ES9038 board thread) why those things need to be done to get the SQ you want. My puzzlement isn't over that, its over the choice of ESS in the first place, given the fact that most of what you buy (in silicon real-estate) you end up not using.

If you need to use a fast PC to make DSD1024 with the Holo Spring then presumably you're not using a ladder DAC at all, rather something like the DSC1 (or DSC2)? A transversal filter?
 
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My puzzlement isn't over that, its over the choice of ESS in the first place, given the fact that most of what you buy (in silicon real-estate) you end up not using.

It has been the best path to lowest distortion in a chip dac, both measured and audible. That's starting to change though.

If you need to use a fast PC to make DSD1024 with the Holo Spring then presumably you're not using a ladder DAC...

Its definitely a ladder dac, but like some other dacs it sounds best with high sample rate DSD (which is optional).
 
If its an R2R (which is normally the architecture referred to by the term 'ladder DAC') then it won't be directly compatible with DSD. Commerical R2R DACs seem (from those I've read about) to have alternative output stages to handle DSD, I've yet to see one try to convert DSD back to PCM (which wouldn't sit at all well marketing-wise) to feed to the R2R DAC.
 
@Mark -

On the topic of I/V I've found quite recently that with using a classD amp, no explicit I/V stage is even needed - a current output DAC can feed current all the way to the classD amp's input. The typical config for a classD amp is you have an input integrator (opamp or OTA of some description) operating in inverting mode - there's an input resistor which converts the input voltage to a current and its often a lowish value (3k seems common). In my latest experiments this 3k resistor _is_ the I/V conversion of the DAC which to my way of thinking is elegantly simple. It allows elimination of an active I/V and buffer stage in applications where the DAC isn't in a separate box but is part of an audio system solution.


Abraxalito,
Any class D amp will work ?
Tripath or TPA 3116 chips ?
How do you control the volume ?
Can you post a picture of your set please
 
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