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Looking for a Recommendation for an Old MultiBit DAC that can be Purchased Today
Looking for a Recommendation for an Old MultiBit DAC that can be Purchased Today
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Old 8th February 2019, 08:43 AM   #11
spaceman5 is offline spaceman5  Israel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
You didn't specify a price range so I included it anyway. Commercial DACs based on TDA1541A are niche items since the chip's been out of production for so long hence they're going to be boutique-priced.
So a nice, USB powered TDA1541A DAC, for a sane price, is a dream that I will not be able to fulfil?
Damn..


Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxalito View Post
I'm experimenting on making one based on my PhiDAC board. Won't be as small as that one but should sound better - partly because it has passive filtering and active I/V, partly because its regenerating the USB bus voltage rather than using it directly If you're interested, drop me a PM.
Well the physical size is something that I am flexible on.
But USB Powered is an advantage that is nice to keep.
Will send you a PM.
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Old 8th February 2019, 10:15 AM   #12
abraxalito is offline abraxalito  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by spaceman5 View Post
So a nice, USB powered TDA1541A DAC, for a sane price, is a dream that I will not be able to fulfil?
I think its possible if you want it badly enough. Checking on Taobao there are a few mains powered TDA1541A DACs with USB inputs. For example : hifi??DAC???TDA1541A ????I2S??USB????DSD384K-???

Starting out with one of these, you'd need to ditch the mains transformer and design (or have someone else design) a power supply which can be fed from USB bus power. Nowadays USB3.0 allows up to 900mA so there should just be enough power available to do this, even though the TDA1541A and SAA7220 together suck about 2W.
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Old 8th February 2019, 10:38 AM   #13
spaceman5 is offline spaceman5  Israel
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Thank you abraxalito. Look interesting.

I have to admit that I do wonder if the TDA1541A chip they use is real and not a fake, since as you mention, those are old chips, not being manufactured anymore.

I am checking now ready-made DAC products based on PCM1794, on eBay, for some reason, all of them require AC Power. I wonder why they need AC Power and cannot work with the USB Power..

Example1: Assembled SA9023+PCM1794 Decoder Board DAC Kit Decoder DAC Sound Card | eBay
Example2: NEW HiFi PCM1794 DAC module decoder module 192k 24bit | eBay
Example3: PCM1794+WM8805+NE5534+AD827 DAC decoding board | eBay

Oh.. Tiny detail:
It seems that the PCM1794 is SingleBit and not MultiBit.. (it is Current Out tho) So I should focus on PCM1702/PCM1704 like weissi wrote.. Anyone heard the SingleBit PCM1794 and can say what was his impression?
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Old 8th February 2019, 09:28 PM   #14
weissi is offline weissi  Austria
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I'd recommend doing the first steps with some PCM56/PCM58 or AD1860. They are relatively easy to apply in combination with the JLsounds USB Interface - NON-Oversampling of course, in case we're not talking about a another approach that is oversampling/filtering within e.g. a Foobar2000 plugin. Basically, your PC is used to upsample with very good technical ratings. That fact also helps a little bit regarding the signal roll-off at higher frequencies that are still within the audible range. This all would apply to a TDA1541A solution, but this chip is more "complicated" to implement rather than the two before-mentioned.
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Old 9th February 2019, 06:43 AM   #15
spaceman5 is offline spaceman5  Israel
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I see. Thank you for the tips. Do you maybe have a link to a place that sells PCM56/PCM58/AD1860?
I prefer a built product if possible, but if not, a kit will be good too..
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Old 9th February 2019, 10:10 AM   #16
thuanth43 is offline thuanth43  Viet Nam
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Check out diyinhk.con
They have kits for AD1862/65 and TDA1541.
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Old 9th February 2019, 10:38 AM   #17
spaceman5 is offline spaceman5  Israel
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Thank you thuanth43.

Unfortunately half of the things there are Out of Stock, and in general it seems like quite an expensive webstore.. Maybe there are other alternative places to buy? (either kits or ready-made PCBs)

Last edited by spaceman5; 9th February 2019 at 10:50 AM.
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Old 9th February 2019, 09:57 PM   #18
miro1360 is offline miro1360  Europe
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Originally Posted by hollowman View Post
... Anyway, no multibit is worth the hassle ... even if you like DIY projects.

Go with a modern delta-sigma (AKM, TI, etc). They really have exceeded the performance of any multibit ASIC.

As far as discrete multibits ... go ahead if you're super bored with plenty o' time to kill.
It is not so simple with a modern delta-sigma. You must know how to deal with the jitter, how to deal with the power supply, and all that several times better than with a multibit. And finally you will find out, that the implemented digital filter in a delta-sigma chip will ruin the whole effort. That's why many professionals do they superwork with the design of their own digital filters (where one makes the sound more or less digital, and the fidelity of the sound they compare with a multibit in NOS ). Go with a modern delta-sigma only if you listen to the sound with the measuring instrument and not with the ears. Even the amateur can make a better sound with the "resistant crap" multibit than many claimed delta-sigma professionals.

You can do much more. You can make a simple multibit and then spend years by overcoming the multibit with a delta-sigma. But do it right - do not do this comparison: Multibit with bad I/V, vs., D/S with good I/V ... as many did and then claimed that multibits are not suitable Make it fair and compare them with the same I/V.
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Old 10th February 2019, 04:38 AM   #19
spaceman5 is offline spaceman5  Israel
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Thank you miro1360

BTW I really like the first sentence you wrote in the easyDAC thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by miro1360 View Post
I like DACs powered directly from USB in small case/design and I like sound based on R-2R.


I wrote exactly the same, a few post ago in this thread. Can you please also mention some places for buying MultiBit DACs today in 2019?

Last edited by spaceman5; 10th February 2019 at 04:41 AM.
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Old 10th February 2019, 07:58 AM   #20
abraxalito is offline abraxalito  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miro1360 View Post
It is not so simple with a modern delta-sigma. You must know how to deal with the jitter, how to deal with the power supply, and all that several times better than with a multibit. And finally you will find out, that the implemented digital filter in a delta-sigma chip will ruin the whole effort. That's why many professionals do they superwork with the design of their own digital filters (where one makes the sound more or less digital, and the fidelity of the sound they compare with a multibit in NOS ).
Is it just me or has anyone else noticed that so many projects based on modern S-D chips devote substantial effort towards bypassing the on-chip additional features provided? No matter which chip is being used the digital upsampling filter has to be thrown out and replaced with something better externally. Then if the chip is ESS, the internal SRC has to be switched off and even (if I understand correctly) various internal modulators need to be routed around and for best results, only DSD fed in from an external DSD-generating chip.

So efforts to get the best SQ from S-D chips seem always to involve finding ways to defeat internal stuff, not simply making the external support circuits the best they can be. To me this is like starting any design from square -1, rather than square 0.
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