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Confused: How to connect my upcoming sub to my sound system ?
Confused: How to connect my upcoming sub to my sound system ?
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Old 30th January 2019, 04:36 AM   #1
eljoantonyn is offline eljoantonyn  India
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Default Confused: How to connect my upcoming sub to my sound system ?

Hi !

My main system: PC/iPad>diy wm8471 dac>Yamaha AS-500 integrated amp>Magnat Monitor Supreme 1000 floor standers with 19hz-20KHz freq. response and 150W power handling with 91db sensitivity.

Secondary system: iPad/TV > Aiyima (Chinese) 50W+100W 2.1 amp > TABAQ TL speakers (DIY).

So, here is the thing ! My sister's marriage is in May and I'm supposed to set up the sound system for the party :cool. I'm planning to use my main system for this and its very loud. The issue is the amp get very hot (I'm thinking my speakers don't match with the amp) when playing loud. So, I'm thinking to use a sub to help out. The diyaudio\subwoofer members have kindly helped me with a design for the sub with a 12" driver. Now, I'm a bit confused on how to connect it.

Plan 1:
Speaker level crossover at the amp output (low pass for the sub and high pass for the speaker).

Plan 2:
Yamaha AS-500 has a dedicated sub-out (line level). So, DAC>Yamaha AS500>Subout>Sub amp>sub
But, the issue is that bass frequencies would go to both the sub as well as the floorstanders. May be I should use the built-in bass control knob on the amp to reduce the bass.

Plan 3:
Use a two way active crossover. Sub-out to the sub amp and the other one to the AS-500. There is a chance of signal degradation here.

Plan 4:
Digital DSP based crossover. Cost might be high but should have better performance ?

What you guys think ?
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Old 30th January 2019, 08:30 AM   #2
eljoantonyn is offline eljoantonyn  India
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Would this work for my requirement ?

Sure Electronics' webstore ADAU1701 Audio Digital Signal Processor Kernel Board
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Old 30th January 2019, 08:58 AM   #3
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Hello. I would try plan 2 before going any further
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Old 30th January 2019, 10:36 AM   #4
eljoantonyn is offline eljoantonyn  India
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottjoplin View Post
Hello. I would try plan 2 before going any further
Yup ! Thats a good idea.

But yeah, I'm intrigued by the "plan 4". That Sure electronics DSP should help to achieve it, right ?
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Old 30th January 2019, 10:46 AM   #5
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Yes DSP will give you the most flexibility
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Old 30th January 2019, 11:01 AM   #6
eljoantonyn is offline eljoantonyn  India
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottjoplin View Post
Yes DSP will give you the most flexibility
Yeah and that particular board costs only 49USD

I'm wondering whether any diyaudio member has had any experience with that board or even with the products of Sure.
Seems like a decent company to me !
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Old 31st January 2019, 10:20 PM   #7
iperv is offline iperv  Italy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljoantonyn View Post
Hi !

My main system: PC/iPad>diy wm8471 dac>Yamaha AS-500 integrated amp>Magnat Monitor Supreme 1000 floor standers with 19hz-20KHz freq. response and 150W power handling with 91db sensitivity.

Secondary system: iPad/TV > Aiyima (Chinese) 50W+100W 2.1 amp > TABAQ TL speakers (DIY).

So, here is the thing ! My sister's marriage is in May and I'm supposed to set up the sound system for the party :cool. I'm planning to use my main system for this and its very loud. The issue is the amp get very hot (I'm thinking my speakers don't match with the amp) when playing loud. So, I'm thinking to use a sub to help out. The diyaudio\subwoofer members have kindly helped me with a design for the sub with a 12" driver. Now, I'm a bit confused on how to connect it.

Plan 1:
Speaker level crossover at the amp output (low pass for the sub and high pass for the speaker).

Plan 2:
Yamaha AS-500 has a dedicated sub-out (line level). So, DAC>Yamaha AS500>Subout>Sub amp>sub
But, the issue is that bass frequencies would go to both the sub as well as the floorstanders. May be I should use the built-in bass control knob on the amp to reduce the bass.

Plan 3:
Use a two way active crossover. Sub-out to the sub amp and the other one to the AS-500. There is a chance of signal degradation here.

Plan 4:
Digital DSP based crossover. Cost might be high but should have better performance ?

What you guys think ?

Plan 5:
Class D amp replacing your amp.
You have 19Hz (let's say a more realistic 30Hz): you DON'T need any sub.
Look at sure aa-ab32313.

About Plan 2:
I think there will be no frequency overlap, yamaha knows how to do the job.

About Plans 3 and 4:
it's more realistic that a signal degradation will be caused by the dsp instead of the analogic filters, that remain the best choice in terms of audio quality.
Look at linkwitz two ways kit boards on ebay.

Last edited by iperv; 31st January 2019 at 10:31 PM.
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Old 1st February 2019, 05:59 AM   #8
eljoantonyn is offline eljoantonyn  India
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iperv View Post
Plan 5:
Class D amp replacing your amp.
You have 19Hz (let's say a more realistic 30Hz): you DON'T need any sub.
Look at sure aa-ab32313.

About Plan 2:
I think there will be no frequency overlap, yamaha knows how to do the job.

About Plans 3 and 4:
it's more realistic that a signal degradation will be caused by the dsp instead of the analogic filters, that remain the best choice in terms of audio quality.
Look at linkwitz two ways kit boards on ebay.
Plan 5:
Haha I don't think it can reach 19hz but yeah, I remember watching Saving Private Ryan on it and there was this scene near the end where an Axis tank crossing a bridge. The floor of my place was literally shaking like that in the movie
But there is no "chest thumping" bass on it though. It just rattles/shakes the windows, chairs and floor

That sure amp...its 2x400 W ! Isn't it an overkill ?


Plan 2:
Hmm.. the general opinion is that the sub out is just a pre-amp out with no filters. The sub would get a low passed signal but the speakers get full range signal. There isn't any high pass filter on the amp output.


Plan 2 & 3:
Thats an interesting opinion. I was thinking altering signals in the digital domain is a better ! May be I was wrong.

I saw some 2 way adjustable filters in eBay as well as Aliexpress. I'll surely check them out.
By the way can you guys recommend any decent boards on eBay ?
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Old 1st February 2019, 06:33 AM   #9
Diabolical Artificer is offline Diabolical Artificer  United Kingdom
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Location: UK
You may be better just bunging a big fan on your amp to keep it cool.

For my sub I use the tape out of the main amp (Yamaha AV amp) into an adjustable LPF i built (8- 50hz), this goes into a bass amp that has it's own parametric EQ so I can tweek the sound further. The LPF I built after looking at numerous articles and design's, I just tweeked an ESP circuit, it's pretty simple, two opamp buffers to sum L&R ch then a simple filter, uses a TL074.

Andy.
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Old 1st February 2019, 02:25 PM   #10
Turbowatch2 is offline Turbowatch2  Germany
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Location: Northern germany
Dont even think about the Sure DSP. You will need month to understand it, documentation is non existing and the net full of useless information.
No step by step how to do it. Save your money.
Best would be to get a strong amp, made for "party all night long".
Maybe try to lease one for an evening. But be carefull, your Magnat speakers are HIFI and not PA. If you let them play loud for two hours, even without overloading them, they get hot (no cooling of magnet) and the voice coil will melt. Take my word, I know.
So, best, get a pair of small PA speakers with matching amp. Nothing exotic about it, just find a place where you can get such stuff for an evening.
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