Hi Guys – Great site that I visit regularly, but I have not the knowledge to make any constructive comments, so I just read and try to learn
Currently I am very confused. The more I read the more confused I get…can I ask for some help??
Simply I want to get a DAC board like - ES9028 ES9028PRO DAC DSD Decoder board HIFI Audio + TCXO + remote control | eBay
ES9028Pro.
I have advice from sellers that just confused me. Sometimes the seller is not a real audiophile and other times, I probably have not explained myself.
I have a Gustard U12 and a PC
I “believe” I2S is the way to go – the Gustard U12 has this and other things. I have never used the Gustard U12.
Questions & Problems:
(sorry about the formatting - it did not copy from word - and I am rubbish at formatting).
Currently I am very confused. The more I read the more confused I get…can I ask for some help??
Simply I want to get a DAC board like - ES9028 ES9028PRO DAC DSD Decoder board HIFI Audio + TCXO + remote control | eBay
ES9028Pro.
I have advice from sellers that just confused me. Sometimes the seller is not a real audiophile and other times, I probably have not explained myself.
I have a Gustard U12 and a PC
I “believe” I2S is the way to go – the Gustard U12 has this and other things. I have never used the Gustard U12.
Questions & Problems:
- · I have been told that the Gustard U12 does not have the “vital” re-clocking I need??
- ES9028Pro Board has 3 options that the seller cannot tell me if I need or not
- Without USB – I think I need this option as I have the Gustard U12 but?
- With Amanero USB
- With XMOS XU208 CPLD
- Which one – adding these adds up the money.
- 4. ES9028Pro because it is cheaper than the ES9038Pro
- 5. Are there any simple answers or guidelines?
- 6. MUST be XLR and I really do not want to solder.
(sorry about the formatting - it did not copy from word - and I am rubbish at formatting).
If you consider yourself an audiophile and are looking for great sound, looking on ebay is the wrong place unless you want to do a lot of work yourself to make it sound better. The stuff you find there is built to sell by good looks in pictures and suggestive wording in ad copy, not reputation for great sound quality. If you know enough electronics to customize some ebay stuff, then you can get good sound. Expect to spend a lot of time and effort in that case.
Hi Markw4
Thank you for the comments.
I do not consider myself an audiophile, just a guy who wants to have some good music. Happy to do a little work to save some money.
As I said I am confused and would appreciate some honest help. Just some answers to some questions.
I am no expert, just reaching out for some help.
If this is not the place, please accept my apologies for wasting your time.
Thank you for the comments.
I do not consider myself an audiophile, just a guy who wants to have some good music. Happy to do a little work to save some money.
As I said I am confused and would appreciate some honest help. Just some answers to some questions.
I am no expert, just reaching out for some help.
If this is not the place, please accept my apologies for wasting your time.
A Gustard U12 appears to be something like an Amanero card that has been packaged into a case. It is probably not particularly good or bad. Definitely not the the best. With a really good USB to I2S card you might not need or benefit from any reclocking or other type of jitter reduction. There are FIFO solutions such as those made by iancanada here at diyaudio, or maybe from Allo, the maker of Katana dac.
What you should do to get the best sound quality at this point depends. You probably can't make use of the lowest jitter solutions with an ESS Sabre dac of any kind without getting into the control registers and programming it.
What do you want balanced XLR for? Mostly there is no need for it. If you really have to have it, then you have to decide if you want to take a sound quality hit and do it the easy way, or build something to do it a better way. Or, if you like the sound of transformers and money for two good ones is not an issue, then that could be way to get to balanced outputs.
If you just want the best possible dac at the lowest possible cost at this point, you might be better off to forget the Gustard and move on. Start over.
What are your listening needs? Do you need real time playback? Or can you copy music to a music player and then play it from there? Do you want to build something to get excellent sound quality for the least cost? If so, how much work would you be willing to on such a project?
What you should do to get the best sound quality at this point depends. You probably can't make use of the lowest jitter solutions with an ESS Sabre dac of any kind without getting into the control registers and programming it.
What do you want balanced XLR for? Mostly there is no need for it. If you really have to have it, then you have to decide if you want to take a sound quality hit and do it the easy way, or build something to do it a better way. Or, if you like the sound of transformers and money for two good ones is not an issue, then that could be way to get to balanced outputs.
If you just want the best possible dac at the lowest possible cost at this point, you might be better off to forget the Gustard and move on. Start over.
What are your listening needs? Do you need real time playback? Or can you copy music to a music player and then play it from there? Do you want to build something to get excellent sound quality for the least cost? If so, how much work would you be willing to on such a project?
Instead of trying to teach you, what´s good and what´s not in a personal, opinionated way, I´ll just try to help you by answering your questions 
Your Gustard U12 (which is a really nice product btw), is a digital interface converter. It converts USB to all the other types of digital transmission.
So... you don´t need USB-input in your ESS DAC, neither Amanero or XMOS.
You might have problems in finding a suitable cable for I2S, so to make things simple, just go for a S/Pdif connection for starters (RCA to RCA coaxial 75ohm digital cable).
This won´t play DSD though. If you want this too, go for the USB Amanero board solution and just forget/sell the Gustard. You don´t need it, if/when you have USB input on the DAC
Your Gustard U12 (which is a really nice product btw), is a digital interface converter. It converts USB to all the other types of digital transmission.
So... you don´t need USB-input in your ESS DAC, neither Amanero or XMOS.
You might have problems in finding a suitable cable for I2S, so to make things simple, just go for a S/Pdif connection for starters (RCA to RCA coaxial 75ohm digital cable).
This won´t play DSD though. If you want this too, go for the USB Amanero board solution and just forget/sell the Gustard. You don´t need it, if/when you have USB input on the DAC
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Gentlemen – thank you for your comments.
Markw4:
I know the whole debate about XLR/RCA Pro-Audio/Audiophile, and I will not go there.
My whole system has XLR connectors, so I am not going down the path of changing to another format.
More than happy to dump the Gustard. But I have it and never used it so I thought it may be of some use – obviously there is some argument about this device.
I listen to flac files and some internet radio. So, nothing fancy. Money is always important
Boydk:
Good – as I thought (the seller told me all sorts of stuff). If I use the Gustard I can just plug it into the board (somewhere) and that will be it?
I2S – looks like I would have to make up a cable I2S to HDMI (as the Gustard has I2S out as HDMI).
Always looking for the “possibility” of future upgrades.
Can I assume that Amanero is better than I2S? Or have you made this suggestion as an easy plug and play suggestion?
I thought I2S was the best input?
In summary:
I can use the Gustard U12 with the board (above) ES9028Pro without anything else, aside for a homemade I2S to HDMI cable.
But if I throw away the Gustard U12, a better sonic result would result if I added the USD80.00 for the Amanero board. Can I assume the Amanero board plugs into the 12S plug on the board?
Oh – if the board to total rubbish, is there another I should consider. Please no Raspberry Pi (unless it is plug and play).
Gentlemen – thank you.
Markw4:
I know the whole debate about XLR/RCA Pro-Audio/Audiophile, and I will not go there.
My whole system has XLR connectors, so I am not going down the path of changing to another format.
More than happy to dump the Gustard. But I have it and never used it so I thought it may be of some use – obviously there is some argument about this device.
I listen to flac files and some internet radio. So, nothing fancy. Money is always important
Boydk:
Good – as I thought (the seller told me all sorts of stuff). If I use the Gustard I can just plug it into the board (somewhere) and that will be it?
I2S – looks like I would have to make up a cable I2S to HDMI (as the Gustard has I2S out as HDMI).
Always looking for the “possibility” of future upgrades.
Can I assume that Amanero is better than I2S? Or have you made this suggestion as an easy plug and play suggestion?
I thought I2S was the best input?
In summary:
I can use the Gustard U12 with the board (above) ES9028Pro without anything else, aside for a homemade I2S to HDMI cable.
But if I throw away the Gustard U12, a better sonic result would result if I added the USD80.00 for the Amanero board. Can I assume the Amanero board plugs into the 12S plug on the board?
Oh – if the board to total rubbish, is there another I should consider. Please no Raspberry Pi (unless it is plug and play).
Gentlemen – thank you.
If you can use an RPi, which has some support for streaming internet radio, and may be able to play flac files (not sure), Allo Katana dac can be quite good. With modest, pretty low cost linear power supplies, it can sound like a $1,000+ dac. However, to get to balanced, either you would probably want to use transformers or a two opamp balancer circuit as below for each channel.
EDIT: Just heads-up thing, many dacs that have balanced outputs take them from before the last part of the SE output stage. That last part unbalances the differential dac outputs, but also finishes filtering out some HF noise and junk that can cause distortion in power amps and speakers. If you know how to finish processing the unbalanced audio and take care of it yourself, then the standard balanced outputs can be okay. Otherwise, better to take the SE outputs and rebalance them.
EDIT: Just heads-up thing, many dacs that have balanced outputs take them from before the last part of the SE output stage. That last part unbalances the differential dac outputs, but also finishes filtering out some HF noise and junk that can cause distortion in power amps and speakers. If you know how to finish processing the unbalanced audio and take care of it yourself, then the standard balanced outputs can be okay. Otherwise, better to take the SE outputs and rebalance them.
Attachments
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I can use the Gustard U12 with the board (above) ES9028Pro without anything else, aside for a homemade I2S to HDMI cable.
YES.
But if I throw away the Gustard U12, a better sonic result would result if I added the USD80.00 for the Amanero board. Can I assume the Amanero board plugs into the 12S plug on the board?
YES to both. Eliminates all the cabling, and the Amanero connect directly as I2S.
Oh – if the board to total rubbish
Impossible to answer without having tried it
I, being not so Chinafobic, have tried a lot of these Chinese dac-kits, from AK4393, 4396, 4399 and 4490, Cirrus logic 4398, dual Wolfson etc, most of these are pretty good with some tweaking (the CirrusLogic 4398 is indeed awesome and still in my setup today). Don´t be that afraid. And Ebay seller "Minishow" has a pretty good reputation. Go for it, and remember to post your results
YES.
But if I throw away the Gustard U12, a better sonic result would result if I added the USD80.00 for the Amanero board. Can I assume the Amanero board plugs into the 12S plug on the board?
YES to both. Eliminates all the cabling, and the Amanero connect directly as I2S.
Oh – if the board to total rubbish
Impossible to answer without having tried it
I, being not so Chinafobic, have tried a lot of these Chinese dac-kits, from AK4393, 4396, 4399 and 4490, Cirrus logic 4398, dual Wolfson etc, most of these are pretty good with some tweaking (the CirrusLogic 4398 is indeed awesome and still in my setup today). Don´t be that afraid. And Ebay seller "Minishow" has a pretty good reputation. Go for it, and remember to post your results
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You might take a look at the following thread.. Moving from 9038Q2M to a 9028Pro board If its the same as the the dac you are thinking of buying (and it does look similar), you can read about some of the things done to try to make it sound better, more like a good Sabre dac should. It didn't sound that way to begin with.
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Gentlemen – Thank you.
I have a small window to say thank you and my thoughts before I take the plunge……
Boydk:
While not an audiophile, more of an interested bystander who like to make things, all looks good.
I will take your advice and sell the Gustard U12 – for some money it is unused, sitting in my rack waiting….
I will get the ES9028Pro with the Amanero and this will make it a lot better.
Just checking the only other thing are a couple of transformers and various connectors and box…. The box is always the hardest.
Markw4:
Thank you. I read the post. A lot of it went over my head. But great reading. I think I will make the DAC in its standard form. Then see what happens.
I will make a 19” rack as all my stuff (including PC) are in a rack. The Audio Rack is different from the PC Rack – we will still have a long cord from the PC to the DAC. Bummer.
Thanks for the help
Any suggestions. I am an enthusiastic amateur with some knowledge, but nothing like as knowledgeable as you guys.
Please accept my apologies for my lack of knowledge and stupid questions.
I have a small window to say thank you and my thoughts before I take the plunge……
Boydk:
While not an audiophile, more of an interested bystander who like to make things, all looks good.
I will take your advice and sell the Gustard U12 – for some money it is unused, sitting in my rack waiting….
I will get the ES9028Pro with the Amanero and this will make it a lot better.
Just checking the only other thing are a couple of transformers and various connectors and box…. The box is always the hardest.
Markw4:
Thank you. I read the post. A lot of it went over my head. But great reading. I think I will make the DAC in its standard form. Then see what happens.
I will make a 19” rack as all my stuff (including PC) are in a rack. The Audio Rack is different from the PC Rack – we will still have a long cord from the PC to the DAC. Bummer.
Thanks for the help
Any suggestions. I am an enthusiastic amateur with some knowledge, but nothing like as knowledgeable as you guys.
Please accept my apologies for my lack of knowledge and stupid questions.
Hey foxint
There´s no thing such as stupid Q´s, when you don´t know and seek advice
Check out the seller of the DAC board (his other items).
He has alu-boxes, which are taylored for this board (not sure of the 19" though), but he also sells some of those as well as the transformer. Find a box with the three push bottons and cutout for display, and you´re nearly there
There´s no thing such as stupid Q´s, when you don´t know and seek advice
Check out the seller of the DAC board (his other items).
He has alu-boxes, which are taylored for this board (not sure of the 19" though), but he also sells some of those as well as the transformer. Find a box with the three push bottons and cutout for display, and you´re nearly there
I can use the Gustard U12 with the board (above) ES9028Pro without anything else, aside for a homemade I2S to HDMI cable.
YES.
But if I throw away the Gustard U12, a better sonic result would result if I added the USD80.00 for the Amanero board. Can I assume the Amanero board plugs into the 12S plug on the board?
YES to both. Eliminates all the cabling, and the Amanero connect directly as I2S.
Oh – if the board to total rubbish
Impossible to answer without having tried it
I, being not so Chinafobic, have tried a lot of these Chinese dac-kits, from AK4393, 4396, 4399 and 4490, Cirrus logic 4398, dual Wolfson etc, most of these are pretty good with some tweaking (the CirrusLogic 4398 is indeed awesome and still in my setup today). Don´t be that afraid. And Ebay seller "Minishow" has a pretty good reputation. Go for it, and remember to post your results
Hi Boydk
First...sorry to disturb your threat here but i am looking for a I2S Solution too:i am in the same situation i own a A20H and use it over years over usb- now i think about try from laptop to USB to i2S converter....i don t know if i can expect a better sound Quality.
... as an old audiophile i am looking fro best SQ.
can you give me a link from the mods you did at CirrusLogic 4398? or is it a ready DAC pimped?
thank you
chris
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Hi Guys
All this knowledge and advice. BIG Thank you.
I have been thinking about the DAC board and I have decided to make the jump to the ES9038 - ES9038 ES9038PRO DSD HIFI DAC decoder Amanero XMOS XU208 USB With OELD Display | eBay and I have asked for the Amanero Board.
Min has been great.
I am going to ask a really dumb question……I have a DAC and I just connect it to the optical output of the PC or the output of the Raspberry Pi Digi +. So basically, I just plug it in….
Love the idea of a good DAC and with some (casework by me) I can get a reasonably priced device.
Is there something I need to know about connecting it to the PC???? I know you are going to hate me.
All this knowledge and advice. BIG Thank you.
I have been thinking about the DAC board and I have decided to make the jump to the ES9038 - ES9038 ES9038PRO DSD HIFI DAC decoder Amanero XMOS XU208 USB With OELD Display | eBay and I have asked for the Amanero Board.
Min has been great.
I am going to ask a really dumb question……I have a DAC and I just connect it to the optical output of the PC or the output of the Raspberry Pi Digi +. So basically, I just plug it in….
Love the idea of a good DAC and with some (casework by me) I can get a reasonably priced device.
Is there something I need to know about connecting it to the PC???? I know you are going to hate me.
You need to look on eBay and see what is out there, then try searching mostly on this forum and see what others have done as far as boards and modifications.
I picked up an ak4495seq board and just swapped the capacitors out for better parts and have a great sounding setup for less than $200.
I picked up an ak4495seq board and just swapped the capacitors out for better parts and have a great sounding setup for less than $200.
Please the following post for more info about that: https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/314935-es9038q2m-board-281.html#post5558656
In addition to what it says there, under the sound device properties -> Levels tab there is a slider to set the master volume. If you right click on it you can change the displayed units to dB, which makes it easier to set to correct attenuation to avoid intersample overs. Please also be aware that the Windows volume slider in the lower right hand corner of the Taskbar changes the same master volume slider as in the device properties.
In any case, it is always best when using a Sabre dac to use the hardware volume control inside the dac chip and avoid any software volume controls except for intersample over compensation. For more info on the Sabre volume control system: http://www.esstech.com/files/3014/4095/4308/digital-vs-analog-volume-control.pdf
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