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Old 29th October 2018, 11:57 AM   #121
erin is offline erin  Australia
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Show off. It looks awesome!
Sounds great too.
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Old 29th October 2018, 11:57 AM   #122
abraxalito is online now abraxalito  United Kingdom
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What's the block diagram of?

It doesn't look the same as the CM108 diagram I have. But still, its showing the audio clocks being generated by 'PLL2' and 'PLL3' which is what I said in post #119. The crystal's jitter barely matters when there's a PLL generating those audio clocks.
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Old 29th October 2018, 12:36 PM   #123
Hugh Jazz is offline Hugh Jazz  Taiwan
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What's the block diagram of?

It doesn't look the same as the CM108 diagram I have. But still, its showing the audio clocks being generated by 'PLL2' and 'PLL3' which is what I said in post #119. The crystal's jitter barely matters when there's a PLL generating those audio clocks.
That's the CM108 I just grabbed from a download from Cmedia site. I think you only have to look at the arrows to understand the input clock is feeding the 3 PLLs and that this one clock is used to time the whole device. I don't understand why you think the PLLs would be immune from jitter on this clock. It's not the kind of device that can generate a clock from the incoming data alone, as some DACs can. PLL2 makes that fairly clear I think.
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Old 29th October 2018, 12:46 PM   #124
abraxalito is online now abraxalito  United Kingdom
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I think you only have to look at the arrows to understand the input clock is feeding the 3 PLLs and that this one clock is used to time the whole device.
Nope, its used as a frequency reference for the array of PLLs. It might be responsible for timing of some digital logic though, I am not sure.

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I don't understand why you think the PLLs would be immune from jitter on this clock.
I don't understand why you think I think that. Could be you're lacking some basic understanding of how PLLs operate and also have a misunderstanding of how adaptive USB works in terms of generating the timing of the audio clocks.

Because you've shown yourself to be relatively immune to being educated on some techie matters on this very thread (presumably because you don't much like the look of big dicks?) I'm right now unclear whether its worthwhile to set things out for you. Let's start with a question - does the concept of oscillator Q have any resonance with you?
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Old 29th October 2018, 03:12 PM   #125
Hugh Jazz is offline Hugh Jazz  Taiwan
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Nope, its used as a frequency reference for the array of PLLs.

You're right. My bad. And it won't sound any better if the reference has lower jitter. Of course not. Crazy ignorant me. ;-)
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Old 29th October 2018, 03:24 PM   #126
abraxalito is online now abraxalito  United Kingdom
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Old 30th October 2018, 12:48 AM   #127
Hugh Jazz is offline Hugh Jazz  Taiwan
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I don't understand why you think I think that. Could be you're lacking some basic understanding of how PLLs operate and also have a misunderstanding of how adaptive USB works in terms of generating the timing of the audio clocks.

Because you've shown yourself to be relatively immune to being educated on some techie matters on this very thread (presumably because you don't much like the look of big dicks?) I'm right now unclear whether its worthwhile to set things out for you. Let's start with a question - does the concept of oscillator Q have any resonance with you?
In the theory vs experience discussions that play out on this site, the above is another example of a post intended to patronise someone in order to dismiss/denigrate/etc their tested experience. It's especially sad in this case because Abraxalito previously stated he doesn't do this.

Unfortunately, replacing the xtal with an xo to improve a PLL is something that has been done before with CMedia gear, and there is evidence it works. RMAA results and pictures of the improved scope trace were posted here on Diyaudio about 6 years ago. I found it and could re-post it in this thread but I'm going to leave that as an "exercise for the reader". It isn't great evidence but at least there's some. I also found a lot of this on Head-Fi where people have done this with a wide range of devices.

So, no easy link for ya, as part of my love of the X-Files, I'm just going to say the truth is out there. You have to want to find it.

Also, having been listening and testing DACs for a while now, I've decided on 4x ES9038q2m for the Minidsp project. $ for $ it is by far the best quality sound on the market today imo.
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Last edited by Hugh Jazz; 30th October 2018 at 01:15 AM.
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Old 30th October 2018, 01:13 AM   #128
abraxalito is online now abraxalito  United Kingdom
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Originally Posted by Hugh Jazz View Post
In the theory vs experience discussions that play out on this site, the above is another example of a post intended to patronise someone in order to dismiss/denigrate/etc their tested experience. It's especially sad in this case because Abraxalito previously stated he doesn't do this.
So you're saying I intended to patronize you and dismiss your experience with this post? Where's the evidence please?

In an earlier version of this post (which I received through the email notification system) you'd asked me a question. The question contained your perception of what I think about XO replacement. My answer to that question is 'no' which is the opposite to what you perceived as my position. With your perception as 'yes' its easy to see why you consider what you quoted as dismissive and patronizing.

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Unfortunately, replacing the xtal with an xo to improve a PLL is something that has been done before with CMedia gear, and there is evidence it works.
Which particular CMedia chip was that? CMedia make a variety of ICs for USB interface and not all operate in the adaptive mode for USB audio.

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So, no easy link for ya, as part of my love of the X-Files, I'm just going to say the truth is out there. You have to want to find it.
Yeah I love X files too. Like 'trust no-one'
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Old 30th October 2018, 01:21 AM   #129
Hugh Jazz is offline Hugh Jazz  Taiwan
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Moving on. Bye.
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Old 31st October 2018, 11:02 PM   #130
rickmcinnis is offline rickmcinnis  United States
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Yeah I love X files too. Like 'trust no-one'
When I hear that phrase I think of Herod Agrippa in I, CLAUDIUS.

It may not be "nice" but it certainly is good advice while living on Earth.

The BBC series is a great example in how good a production can be when you don't throw money at it for no good reason.
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