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Old 20th April 2018, 02:38 PM   #71
scott wurcer is online now scott wurcer  United States
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Originally Posted by MarcelvdG View Post
Why would that help?
Leaving headroom never looses any resolution even if you say normalize to 1 in your filters.
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Old 20th April 2018, 07:04 PM   #72
hollowman is offline hollowman  United States
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Default Not really ....

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Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
This is exactly the same stuff as the Benchmark white paper.
The reports are not really the same. Especially when it comes to each report's conclusions.
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Old 20th April 2018, 07:36 PM   #73
scott wurcer is online now scott wurcer  United States
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The reports are not really the same. Especially when it comes to each report's conclusions.
They are the same technical issues around down/up sampling and normalization. It is amusing that CoolEdit had a warning and it's how old, more than 20yr.?

BTW I checked the CBS/SONY test disk (1983) not only is it undithered 16 bit but there are some clips and potential overs on some of the music samples. OTOH most of the samples don't look anything like current CD examples, they have real dynamic range so the flaws are rare.
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Old 20th April 2018, 07:44 PM   #74
hollowman is offline hollowman  United States
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I do agree that ISO's can be generated given the 0dBS+ condition.
Benchmark notes "INTERSAMPLE OVERS ARE A COMMON OCCURRENCE IN CD RECORDINGS", and proceeds to give several infographic examples, such as the Steely Dan album. I'm not sure if what they are calling "ISO's" (red spikes) are really ISO's. But for the sake of argument, let's say they were. What if those "ISO's" were the result of DSP manipulation (as Tham pointed out)? This may be some kind of efx, or reverb, or eq.
Then, trying to compensate for the anomalies ("ISO's") in the playback device would change the sonic. charac. of the music -- not what the artist wanted! After all, this is the Steely Day -- known for their Grammy-award-winning engineering.

As Tham noted: " 0dBFS+ levels can be created through subsequent manipulation or processing of a digital recording. For example, if a digital recording is "amplified" (by multiplying each digital sample by a constant amount) it may then subsequently lead to 0dBFS+ levels."

BTW: The pro-audio community (producers, engineering) has know about ISO's (aka inter-sample peaks, ISP) for quite some time:
Intersample Overs and Peak ceiling - Gearslutz Pro Audio Community
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Old 20th April 2018, 09:33 PM   #75
MarcelvdG is offline MarcelvdG  Netherlands
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Then, trying to compensate for the anomalies ("ISO's") in the playback device would change the sonic. charac. of the music -- not what the artist wanted! After all, this is the Steely Day -- known for their Grammy-award-winning engineering.
That seems rather bizarre, as it would mean that the artist wants it to sound different depending on what DAC is used to play it back.
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Old 20th April 2018, 09:35 PM   #76
MarcelvdG is offline MarcelvdG  Netherlands
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Originally Posted by scott wurcer View Post
Leaving headroom never looses any resolution even if you say normalize to 1 in your filters.
Got it: you were thinking about the digital signal processing as such, I was thinking about DACs and mastering practices.
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Old 20th April 2018, 10:08 PM   #77
Markw4 is offline Markw4  United States
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That seems rather bizarre, as it would mean that the artist wants it to sound different depending on what DAC is used to play it back.
They want people to like it and buy it. If it is not reasonably competitively loud, it will be a problem and the record company will not approve the master. There has been no perfect solution available.

At least mastering for iTunes includes setting levels so that iPhones will not be pushed into excessive distortion. Maybe it will have some influence on the rest of the industry, we will have to see.
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Old 20th April 2018, 11:16 PM   #78
scott wurcer is online now scott wurcer  United States
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Got it: you were thinking about the digital signal processing as such, I was thinking about DACs and mastering practices.
Right, I meant if it really bothered you you could rip all your CD's and convert to FP normalized to 32768.0000 nothing at all lost there. Then there are lots of good software SRC solutions to up sample and create 24bit files at say 176.4k or something like that renormalized after all the computations are done.
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