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Old 10th July 2020, 01:50 AM   #5771
abraxalito is offline abraxalito  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laserscrape View Post
Many people have refered to it as a ''NOS-like'' mode, implying it could just be very gentle filter but seeingwhat it looks like on a scope (not my image btw) I thought it was truly NOS.
I agree it does look somewhat NOS-like though with more noise - the steps are at ~22uS intervals by my eye. It would be interesting to see what it does with an 18kHz sinewave.
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Old 10th July 2020, 02:21 PM   #5772
ClaudeG is offline ClaudeG
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Quote: If you would be happy with a nice little 16-bit dac for cheap, I would suggest you go check out Abraxalito's thread and see how that appeals to you. Much lower cost for some diy fun and good value for money.

Hi Mark
Have you listen to it and if so how would you describe the difference vs your 4499 eval board, for 16 bit recordings of course? And vs say a more common 4493 or 9038 implementation?

Just curious because you mentioned it

Many thanks

Claude
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Old 10th July 2020, 02:39 PM   #5773
Markw4 is online now Markw4  United States
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Hi Claude, I have one of Abraxalito's earlier dac designs, IIRC, based on the same chip he is still using. At the time I auditioned it I was impressed that the low level reverb tails were more present than they are with much more expensive and complex Sabre dac designs. In other ways it didn't beat out the sound of dacs like Benchmark DAC-3, but the price difference is huge.

Also, I used a spare USB board to provide I2S input and clocking. No comparisons were done with much lower phase noise clocks, so don't know first hand what the jitter sensitivity might have been. In addition, Abraxalito (Richard) sent the dac with output transformers attached so that's how we listened to it. I did hear some low level distortion but I am very sensitive to distortion, don't know if other people would notice. Also don't know if different clocking and or not using the output transformers might have changed the sound significantly. Did find that lower power supply impedance as seen by the dac chip helped it sound better. I believe the newer dacs may have taken that more into account. In the end its still a 16-bit dac, though, and no DSD. Probably best to ask other people how the newer ones with more dac chips and or with more output filtering sound, haven't had the pleasure myself as yet.

Regarding the AK4499 eval board, it can sound a lot like Topping D90 if the same clocks are used. It can sound better than D90 or worse than D90 depending on implementation details. I would say D90 sounds clearly better than DAC-3 at 16/44 (and DAC-3 is upsampling that to 211kHz internally), and probably significantly better than what I remember of the older Abraxalito dac here. So, I would opine the gap between good low cost dacs and dacs of significantly better sound quality is shrinking, but we are still talking several times the cost for D90.

Last edited by Markw4; 10th July 2020 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 10th July 2020, 02:46 PM   #5774
ClaudeG is offline ClaudeG
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Thanks a lot for your detailled reply, Mark, as ever!

Stay safe

Claude
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Old 11th July 2020, 10:12 AM   #5775
kimschips is offline kimschips  Denmark
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It seems that Ltc6655 is quite expensive,
Is it possible to use another voltage reference for avcc?

Thx for great thread.
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Old 11th July 2020, 11:03 AM   #5776
jimk04 is offline jimk04  United Kingdom
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Lt3042?
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Old 11th July 2020, 11:22 AM   #5777
kimschips is offline kimschips  Denmark
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Yes lt3042 Also good example.

What about this small lt3045 module
Could it be a okay upgrade to Chinese Dac?
Sigma78-79 Series LDO Low Noise Linear Regulated Power Supply Module L18-52 | eBay

Happy building
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Old 11th July 2020, 01:16 PM   #5778
Markw4 is online now Markw4  United States
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LT3042 or LT3045 are devices that should work as a good voltage reference. The idea is that the voltage reference should be ultra low noise to be consistent with a good 24-bit dac (maybe 20 or 21 ENOB in reality). If one can't start out with a low noise reference then multiple stages of filtering may be another way to reduce noise.

The forgoing haven been said, cheap $1.99 Chinese voltage regulators are probably not ultra low noise (they claim the one linked to uses Ti-TPS7A 4701RGW, not as good as we would prefer, maybe with enough post-filtering though). TI does have a similar, but ultra low noise version in TPS7A33 family, although not as good at LTC6655 or LT3042.

Perhaps some informative discussion at: Ultra low noise voltage reference - Page 1

Last edited by Markw4; 11th July 2020 at 01:25 PM.
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Old 13th July 2020, 09:17 PM   #5779
AMB4 is offline AMB4  United States
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ES9038Q2M Board
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightdigitword View Post
Thanks Mark, I have one on its way and wondered if a schematic may have been created at some point. it wont be a problem to trace this out myself.
You know, I’m surprised that in the 2.5 years or so of the life it this thread that the original manufacturer hasn’t picked up these changes. Or some other low cost manufacturer.


Maybe it’s too much to process; it was for me, so I decided to buy Schiit instead of ****. {please interpret as humor not derision}{the asterisks are from diyaudio not me}

Last edited by AMB4; 13th July 2020 at 09:19 PM. Reason: Explain asterisks
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Old 14th July 2020, 12:32 AM   #5780
Terry Demol is offline Terry Demol  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markw4 View Post
LT3042 or LT3045 are devices that should work as a good voltage reference. The idea is that the voltage reference should be ultra low noise to be consistent with a good 24-bit dac (maybe 20 or 21 ENOB in reality). If one can't start out with a low noise reference then multiple stages of filtering may be another way to reduce noise.

The forgoing haven been said, cheap $1.99 Chinese voltage regulators are probably not ultra low noise (they claim the one linked to uses Ti-TPS7A 4701RGW, not as good as we would prefer, maybe with enough post-filtering though). TI does have a similar, but ultra low noise version in TPS7A33 family, although not as good at LTC6655 or LT3042.

Perhaps some informative discussion at: Ultra low noise voltage reference - Page 1
I would suggest to try 2 red LED's in series powered with a 3 to 10 mA CCS.
The CCS can be made with a J111 (etc) jfet and a single resistor.
This will have lower noise than any of these regs or voltage references.

It won't have the temperature vs voltage stability of the aforementioned
references but that isn't important in this case.

Another option is a simple VBE multiplier using low noise BJT such as a
2SA1083/4/5 or equiv. and same CCS. Not perfect voltage vs temp stability,
but super low noise.

TCD
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