DAC blind test: NO audible difference whatsoever

Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.
Its not my logic, it is the statistics of the test. The science behind it.

dave

The statistics usually indicate that guessing is just as good as listening and trying.

The part I fail to understand is how that lends credence to subjective claims. In my eyes, it does exactly what it should, prove that people speak with far more certainty than they should.
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
The statistics usually indicate that guessing is just as good as listening and trying.

The part I fail to understand is how that lends credence to subjective claims. In my eyes, it does exactly what it should, prove that people speak with far more certainty than they should.

You are not getting it… like far too many people. If you partiticipate in an ABX test and get the null result … ie you cannot reliably tell the DUT apart … you can only say that on that day, in that test, you could not discern any differences. It says nothing about the DUT, or anything about them being indistinguishable.

dave
 
What is it capable of then, in your opinion?

What it means and does electrically shouldn't be under debate. If it's supposed to have "capabilities" outside of it's electrical function, I don't find it concerning.

I'm open to learning something that makes it concerning, but cryptic passive aggression isn't going to do it.
 
ie you cannot reliably tell the DUT apart … you can only say that on that day, in that test, you could not discern any differences. It says nothing about the DUT, or anything about them being indistinguishable.

dave

Right, so if someone is going to sit here and say that their "thing" has some "attribute" and people are supposed to entertain that, then I want a screenshot that on that day, in that test, they could discern the difference that they want me to believe they're describing.
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
What is it capable of then, in your opinion?

Not an opinion. A fact. ABX is designed to (emphatically) show that 2 DUT are different. If the null hypotheis is disproved you can be highly confident that the DUT are different. ABX is quite strong in this direction. So strong that it is so weak to as be useless in the other direction.

dave
 
The point is to test something for audibility, so if we're being technical, the only DUT I'm interested in is the person.

You can learn something about what the person can hear if the person is willing to cooperate and you know how to test. Testing hearing is essentially like other testing of humans, particularly medical testing. How ears and brains process sound is complex. There are more ways to prevent the test subject from hearing something that enabling it.

1. They need to feel comfortable.

2. They need to be able to compare short passages quickly, due to the persistence of auditory memory in the brain. It's easy to remember that a difference was heard, but exactly what it was is lost pretty quickly, often in a few seconds.

3. The person must not be distracted during the test. They must understand how to operate the equipment and doing so should not take attention away from listening. Remember, when they said they could hear a difference, they weren't paying attention to operating equipment.

4. There is a page at wikipedia with some more information, please see the section on Potential Flaws: ABX test - Wikipedia

5. Very detailed information for best practices to get accurate results may be found here: https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.1116-3-201502-I!!PDF-E.pdf Please see Attachments 1-3 to Annex 1.
 
You are the one bringing up electrically.

ABX is a test of hearing differences.

dave

I didn't bring up the null.

ABX only needs to do one thing for me, and that's injecting plausibility into subjective listening impressions, which is the only real thing it fails to do.

At least, those are the only buttons I can find on my version of foo_abx, perhaps there's an alternate version floating around I haven't seen.
 
You can learn something about what the person can hear if the person is willing to cooperate and you know how to test. Testing hearing is essentially like other testing of humans, particularly medical testing. How ears and brains process sound is complex. There are more ways to prevent the test subject from hearing something that enabling it.

1. They need to feel comfortable.

2. They need to be able to compare short passages quickly, due to the persistence of auditory memory in the brain. It's easy to remember that a difference was heard, but exactly what it was is lost pretty quickly, often in a few seconds.

3. The person must not be distracted during the test. They must understand how to operate the equipment and doing so should not take attention away from listening. Remember, when they said they could hear a difference, they weren't paying attention to operating equipment.

4. There is a page at wikipedia with some more information, please see the section on Potential Flaws: ABX test - Wikipedia

5. Very detailed information for best practices to get accurate results may be found here: https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r/rec/bs/R-REC-BS.1116-3-201502-I!!PDF-E.pdf Please see Attachments 1-3 to Annex 1.

Yep, and all of those things are true in a normal listening session while someone is popping off at the mouth about how great the treble is in their new amp, so.
 
frugal-phile™
Joined 2001
Paid Member
I didn't bring up the null.

Sure you did. Any comment that suggests that there are no differences when they participate in an ABX test and are not able to reliably discern any differences is misusing the failure to disprove the null hypothesis.

ABX only needs to do one thing for me, and that's injecting plausibility into subjective listening impressions, which is the only real thing it fails to do.

It only does that if it shows a difference.

dave
 
Status
This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.