Go Back   Home > Forums > >
Home Forums Rules Articles diyAudio Store Blogs Gallery Wiki Register Donations FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Digital Line Level DACs, Digital Crossovers, Equalizers, etc.

DAC blind test: NO audible difference whatsoever
DAC blind test: NO audible difference whatsoever
Please consider donating to help us continue to serve you.

Ads on/off / Custom Title / More PMs / More album space / Advanced printing & mass image saving
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 22nd November 2019, 04:45 PM   #1901
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
diyAudio Member
 
scottjoplin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Penrhyndeudraeth
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmjohnson View Post

But I can tell you that you need to have a good enough test system in order to get a valid test on the product under scrutiny.
And it turns out good enough can be quite poor Can you hear a difference between 2 solid state preamps?
  Reply With Quote
Old 22nd November 2019, 05:35 PM   #1902
Evenharmonics is offline Evenharmonics  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by cmjohnson View Post
I'm not reading all of a 190 page topic. The specifications of the test system are unknown to me.

But I can tell you that you need to have a good enough test system in order to get a valid test on the product under scrutiny.
Can you name brand and model of some of those "good enough" components?

Quote:
To draw an analogy in the field of photography, you can't expect to appreciate a 5000 dollar camera lens's better performance if you're attaching it to a 300 dollar camera body. In such a scenario, the cheap kit lens that came witih the 300 dollar camera may give just as good an image.
Aren't you forgetting the infamous car analogy which goes something like, "If you are comparing car performance, you wouldn't put $50 Sears tire on $150K performance car, would you? It's the same when you are comparing amp performance, you wouldn't use $50 speaker cables on $15K amp."?

BTW, you are wrong about the camera lens difference. They do make a difference in both high-end camera body and entry level camera body.

Quote:
It may be simply that a superior performing DAC does exist but the system it's being checked out on doesn't have the transparency required to hear it.

As both someone who knows something of electronics and how to measure them, and also as an audiophile, I can tell you that when audio systems are extremely good, they become more transparent to changes made within them. I HAVE heard the difference between an expensive DAC (20,000 dollars) and a STUPIDLY expensive DAC (50,000 dollars) in a $200,000+ system and no I'm not buying it. Not the DAC or the system. While I could hear differences when A/B switching between them, that difference isn't worth it to me and it's totally out of my budget even if I wanted it. In truth I am happy with my existing system which is far less expensive. The upgrade bug isn't even licking me.
Was it a level matched and bias controlled test?
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2019, 05:34 PM   #1903
Doppler9000 is offline Doppler9000  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evenharmonics View Post

BTW, you are wrong about the camera lens difference. They do make a difference in both high-end camera body and entry level camera body.
Actually, it is you that is wrong.

Obviously, if a sensor is out-resolved by a lens, substituting a higher resolution lens will not improve image resolution - the sensor is the binding constraint.

If a sensor out-resolves a lens, then substituting a higher resolution lens will improve the image resolution, up to the point where the resolving capability of the lens and sensor are the same.

A 16mp sensor will hit its limit before a 24mp sensor will.

See?
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2019, 06:53 PM   #1904
analog_sa is offline analog_sa  Europe
diyAudio Member
 
analog_sa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Cascais
DAC blind test: NO audible difference whatsoever
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppler9000 View Post
See?
No. I also think it is a poor analogy. Resolution is only a part of what makes a great lens. The lack of various distortions, improved contrast etc are visible even on an entry level sensor.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2019, 07:32 PM   #1905
Doppler9000 is offline Doppler9000  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Let us change “resolution” to mtf.

The point is the same.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2019, 08:06 PM   #1906
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
diyAudio Member
 
scottjoplin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Penrhyndeudraeth
Why the analogies? They don't seem transferable to an audio context.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2019, 09:01 PM   #1907
Doppler9000 is offline Doppler9000  Canada
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Would you not agree that as you lower the fidelity of a test system, it becomes increasing difficult to discern subtle differences?

Last edited by Doppler9000; 23rd November 2019 at 09:05 PM.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2019, 09:12 PM   #1908
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
diyAudio Member
 
scottjoplin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Penrhyndeudraeth
It might depend what the differences are, in the thread I linked to, very small differences were heard on very poor set ups.
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2019, 09:56 PM   #1909
Evenharmonics is offline Evenharmonics  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppler9000 View Post
Actually, it is you that is wrong.

Obviously, if a sensor is out-resolved by a lens, substituting a higher resolution lens will not improve image resolution - the sensor is the binding constraint.

If a sensor out-resolves a lens, then substituting a higher resolution lens will improve the image resolution, up to the point where the resolving capability of the lens and sensor are the same.

A 16mp sensor will hit its limit before a 24mp sensor will.

See?
You obviously never compared images of high-end lens and entry level lens side by side when taken same object with same focal length and aperture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppler9000 View Post
Would you not agree that as you lower the fidelity of a test system, it becomes increasing difficult to discern subtle differences?
Can you cite an example of objective DACs listening comparison which the cheaper / lower fidelity system didn't reveal the audible difference that more expensive / higher fidelity system did?
  Reply With Quote
Old 23rd November 2019, 10:00 PM   #1910
rayma is offline rayma  United States
diyAudio Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottjoplin View Post
It might depend what the differences are, in the thread I linked to, very small differences
were heard on very poor set ups.
But that doesn't mean those differences would still be very small on a much better system.

Last edited by rayma; 23rd November 2019 at 10:05 PM.
  Reply With Quote

Reply


DAC blind test: NO audible difference whatsoeverHide this!Advertise here!
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Will a small cap value difference be audible? jb0194 Multi-Way 2 8th February 2012 06:39 PM
Audible difference between DTS and Dolby? arjscott Everything Else 3 1st February 2007 01:33 PM
Which caps make the most audible difference? TDWesty Solid State 5 31st January 2007 06:49 PM
BrianGT Basic v/s Premium - any audible difference ? percy Chip Amps 1 4th September 2004 04:18 PM
RC Tolerance -- audible difference r_s_dhar Analogue Source 6 11th August 2003 08:47 PM


New To Site? Need Help?

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:18 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Resources saved on this page: MySQL 14.29%
vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ©1999-2019 diyAudio
Wiki