Hi fellows,
I've seen many boards for Raspberry to output SPDIF from the I2S. They "should" have different performances. I can't find any measurements to compare.
It will feed my Buffalo II, mind that its SPDIF receiver (in the ES9018) is "custom and not that bad jitter/clock stories wise". So it rises another question in how much a better SPDIF is wanted if it makes no differences with an ES9018.
Let's assume the better the SPDIF the better the joy of listening music.
Add to that, on the Raspberry side, annoying things like:
And I wonder which is the best solution for the best SPDIF signal.
This chinese copy of the HifiBerry Digi+?
AUDIOPHONICS Digipi+ Raspberry PI A+ B+ 2.0 I2S Digital interface - Audiophonics
HifiBerry Digi+:
HiFiBerry Digi+ – transformer version | HiFiBerry
The JustBoom take?
JustBoom Digi HAT for the Raspberry Pi • JustBoom
The IQaudIO one? Much more components...
Pi-Digi+ I2S audiophile optical / electrical digital for Raspberry Pi
An HifiberryDigi+ Pro and its dedicated XOs? Linked to the 19.2MHz issue?
HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro | HiFiBerry
A so-called pro one (I guess because of AES), the Pi 2 Design aka Pi2Media 502C:
http://www.pi2design.com/store/p15/502DAC_-_Audio_Shield.html
The expensive Allo DigiOne:
DigiOne SPDIF Output (EU)
Maybe even consider the Allo Kali prior to one of the said SPDIF hat boards?
Yep, so many trees looks like the jungle to me.
Chime in please
Matthieu
I've seen many boards for Raspberry to output SPDIF from the I2S. They "should" have different performances. I can't find any measurements to compare.
It will feed my Buffalo II, mind that its SPDIF receiver (in the ES9018) is "custom and not that bad jitter/clock stories wise". So it rises another question in how much a better SPDIF is wanted if it makes no differences with an ES9018.
Let's assume the better the SPDIF the better the joy of listening music.
Add to that, on the Raspberry side, annoying things like:
And I wonder which is the best solution for the best SPDIF signal.
This chinese copy of the HifiBerry Digi+?
AUDIOPHONICS Digipi+ Raspberry PI A+ B+ 2.0 I2S Digital interface - Audiophonics
HifiBerry Digi+:
HiFiBerry Digi+ – transformer version | HiFiBerry
The JustBoom take?
JustBoom Digi HAT for the Raspberry Pi • JustBoom
The IQaudIO one? Much more components...
Pi-Digi+ I2S audiophile optical / electrical digital for Raspberry Pi
An HifiberryDigi+ Pro and its dedicated XOs? Linked to the 19.2MHz issue?
HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro | HiFiBerry
A so-called pro one (I guess because of AES), the Pi 2 Design aka Pi2Media 502C:
http://www.pi2design.com/store/p15/502DAC_-_Audio_Shield.html
The expensive Allo DigiOne:
DigiOne SPDIF Output (EU)
Maybe even consider the Allo Kali prior to one of the said SPDIF hat boards?
Yep, so many trees looks like the jungle to me.
Chime in please
Matthieu
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I read up briefly on the Kali I2S reclocker. It says "Kali will not work if your DAC is a master. Dac has to be slave." The one thing I've learned is that it's best is if the DAC is the master. So perhaps try the Allo BOSS DAC or the MiniBoss DAC for the PiZero, and save $20. Or get the Kali I2S another DAC and compare. Sell the one you won't use, or use in a different set up. As for tests, seen this? Archimago's Musings: MEASUREMENTS: Raspberry Pi 3 "Touch" music streamer
or this Archimago's Musings: MEASUREMENTS: Raspberry Pi 3 & HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro (Audio Streaming).
http://archimago.blogspot.se/2017/05/measurements-raspberry-pi-3-touch-music.html
or this Archimago's Musings: MEASUREMENTS: Raspberry Pi 3 & HiFiBerry DAC+ Pro (Audio Streaming).
http://archimago.blogspot.se/2017/05/measurements-raspberry-pi-3-touch-music.html
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Yes, sorry, didn't pay attention to the Buffalo II. I did see the SPDIF reference. I'm still stuck in the SPDIF universe as well (or AES/EBU). Buffalo II is an asynchronous DAC, though, it might not matter much. The only thing that could hurt is your wallet, but if you don't go with that €121 unit, you're not going to be out of a big amount regardless. All units seem to have an isolation transformer. Perhaps worthwhile to check which ones they're using, what the specs are. Without much info about, I'd probably pick on of the the HifiBerrys, their DAC tested well and that digiboard is the basis for it.
Hi,
I hadn't seen that IQ audio had a spdif and optical solution or probably I would be running one of those due to the price and my earlier excellent experience with the IQ dac+ as a standalone dac used with the RPI.
Currently I am using an RPI with the expensive one into Hypex DLCP and I must say the DigiOne has an awful lot going for it, easily ticking all the boxes and then some. They have just posted a link on the allo website to a recent review, which they are rightly proud off.
The DigiOne was easily configured in Moode 3.8 and was up and running in about 5 minutes from installing with the Pi and then updating Moode settings and a couple of reboots.
Sorry I cannot comment on the others as I haven't heard them. One thing that may affect your choice is availability, some of them can go in and out of stock quite quickly.
I hadn't seen that IQ audio had a spdif and optical solution or probably I would be running one of those due to the price and my earlier excellent experience with the IQ dac+ as a standalone dac used with the RPI.
Currently I am using an RPI with the expensive one into Hypex DLCP and I must say the DigiOne has an awful lot going for it, easily ticking all the boxes and then some. They have just posted a link on the allo website to a recent review, which they are rightly proud off.
The DigiOne was easily configured in Moode 3.8 and was up and running in about 5 minutes from installing with the Pi and then updating Moode settings and a couple of reboots.
Sorry I cannot comment on the others as I haven't heard them. One thing that may affect your choice is availability, some of them can go in and out of stock quite quickly.
Thanks Raymond,
OK the Allo DigiOne is great, hope so as it's costy . (BTW your sentence was hard to understand for me, at first I tought it meant the Allo is bad... hope my english was better )
Like Eurovision Song Contest, one point for DigiOne from UK.
And I add to the top list the JustBoom digital board...
OK the Allo DigiOne is great, hope so as it's costy
. (BTW your sentence was hard to understand for me, at first I tought it meant the Allo is bad... hope my english was better )Like Eurovision Song Contest, one point for DigiOne from UK.
And I add to the top list the JustBoom digital board...
Malefoda, you might be interested in my comments about the DigiOne here -
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/313666-linear-psu-raspberry-pi-3-confused-5.html#post5226486
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/power-supplies/313666-linear-psu-raspberry-pi-3-confused-5.html#post5226486
Hi,
yep I take it as technically more sophisticated, even if reward in SQ is unknown to you. One point from Australia (you were in European song contest right?!) to Allo DigiOne, and maybe the review listed previously adds one as they felt a clear increase in SQ over the JustBoom board.
My target now is: reclock and isolation, leaving me 2 boards, the HifiBerry Digi+ Pro and the Allo DigiOne.
While I'm saving I'll try to find as much as I can on both.
I'm currently running the cheap PiFi Digi+, which sounds not as good as my CD transport (but way better than RPi's USB), hence the thread...
yep I take it as technically more sophisticated, even if reward in SQ is unknown to you. One point from Australia (you were in European song contest right?!) to Allo DigiOne, and maybe the review listed previously adds one as they felt a clear increase in SQ over the JustBoom board.
My target now is: reclock and isolation, leaving me 2 boards, the HifiBerry Digi+ Pro and the Allo DigiOne.
While I'm saving I'll try to find as much as I can on both.
I'm currently running the cheap PiFi Digi+, which sounds not as good as my CD transport (but way better than RPi's USB), hence the thread...
Attachments
Hi Malefoda,
While you are saving for the next upgrade, and have a few minutes spare are you happy you have exhausted all the setup options for your PiFi Digi+.
I am not familiar with your unit but for instance do you have to use the USB Wi-Fi dongle have you tried an Ethernet connection and turning the Wi-Fi off. Have you tried different sample rates up to 24/192Khz etc. Maybe you could get a few more percentage points out of it. Possibly others would recommend a different PSU over the standard walwart. I guess you have been through most of the related threads, if I am teaching you to suck eggs my appologies.
While you are saving for the next upgrade, and have a few minutes spare are you happy you have exhausted all the setup options for your PiFi Digi+.
I am not familiar with your unit but for instance do you have to use the USB Wi-Fi dongle have you tried an Ethernet connection and turning the Wi-Fi off. Have you tried different sample rates up to 24/192Khz etc. Maybe you could get a few more percentage points out of it. Possibly others would recommend a different PSU over the standard walwart. I guess you have been through most of the related threads, if I am teaching you to suck eggs my appologies.
HI, thanks for that helping hand Raymond.
still have to dig Allo vs HifiBerry. As for Moode I've set it to "don't touch the bits please", I want the ES9018 to do the job.
Right now WiFi is for convenience. In fact on a tiny quality shielded remote port, not like pictured. Ethernet is the default setting but the familiy's rabbit decided to cut the line. Will re-wire soon, as my WiFi is too slow and struggles with 24/96 material.
PSUs were in my scope prior to serious readings, but in the case of a full digital Raspberry, and isolated, it's useless.
Really down to the SPDIF interface now, or later on I2S... but SPDIF at its best does sound great to me.
still have to dig Allo vs HifiBerry. As for Moode I've set it to "don't touch the bits please", I want the ES9018 to do the job.
Right now WiFi is for convenience. In fact on a tiny quality shielded remote port, not like pictured. Ethernet is the default setting but the familiy's rabbit decided to cut the line. Will re-wire soon, as my WiFi is too slow and struggles with 24/96 material.
PSUs were in my scope prior to serious readings, but in the case of a full digital Raspberry, and isolated, it's useless.
Really down to the SPDIF interface now, or later on I2S... but SPDIF at its best does sound great to me.
Hi,
If the spidf hat with its own XO is slavering the Rpi, you will have difference of sounds between two spidf hats according these items:
Quality of the LDO regs and caps decoupling
Quality of the Xtal and their caps decoupling
Quality of the Layout
Quality of the SPIDF plug : bad RCA VS good true 75 ohms proper plug
Quality of the spidf cable (you can hear it)
Quality of the main power supply of the hat (indeed better to be isolated from the Noisy Rpi and not be let it voltage feeded by the Rpi GPIO header)
Of course there is also the quality of the receiver chi^p, but they all uses the same ! and at the end the serie cap for galvanic isolation !
To sumarize : you can hear difference, improve a little at the margin !
My recent experiments show better result with USB to I2S transport than ethernet RpI to I2S transport !
YMMV of course. Pi hat DAC are limited by their layout and space area ! (lost of time for a complete system imho, maybe good enough for a transport with full gadget ? isolator, reclocker, fifo (Kali ? but some bugs seem to occur with this board yet ! Kali II ?)
regards !
If the spidf hat with its own XO is slavering the Rpi, you will have difference of sounds between two spidf hats according these items:
Quality of the LDO regs and caps decoupling
Quality of the Xtal and their caps decoupling
Quality of the Layout
Quality of the SPIDF plug : bad RCA VS good true 75 ohms proper plug
Quality of the spidf cable (you can hear it)
Quality of the main power supply of the hat (indeed better to be isolated from the Noisy Rpi and not be let it voltage feeded by the Rpi GPIO header)
Of course there is also the quality of the receiver chi^p, but they all uses the same ! and at the end the serie cap for galvanic isolation !
To sumarize : you can hear difference, improve a little at the margin !
My recent experiments show better result with USB to I2S transport than ethernet RpI to I2S transport !
YMMV of course. Pi hat DAC are limited by their layout and space area ! (lost of time for a complete system imho, maybe good enough for a transport with full gadget ? isolator, reclocker, fifo (Kali ? but some bugs seem to occur with this board yet ! Kali II ?)
regards !
How about Allo Digi One. Supposed to be the best.
Allo DigiOne Player is probably the best Volumio based S/PDIF transport * Volumio
Allo DigiOne Player is probably the best Volumio based S/PDIF transport * Volumio
Malefoda, can your Buffalo accept i2s? With the RPi, I would use something like the Allo Kali or IanCanada's RPi i2s reclocker to feed the Buffalo. I'm pretty sure the RPi spdif boards read i2s from the RPi anyway, then convert to spdif. Most modern DAC ICs take i2s natively, so you might be looking at a conversion back to i2s before the bits actually get covered to analog. (Although iirc the es9018 can do spdif natively too?)
But I am of the opinion that the fewer steps/simpler the better, hence my suggestion of staying in the i2s domain from the RPi.
But I am of the opinion that the fewer steps/simpler the better, hence my suggestion of staying in the i2s domain from the RPi.
Thanks for the link!
Yep seems it is the best tech and sound wise, period. This is my target now, I mean this one or nothing (got the clone Pifi Dig+ right now).
Hi Matt,
yes that's an issue for me. I am struggling with these options, and the possible sync issues and the ability to use my gear somewhere else (SPDIF...).
You can chime in here
DAC (BII & NTD1) under construction, ideas needed to finish it
MiniShark in sight also, but that means I have to keep the miniSharc inside the BII's case for ultra short I2S wires... Or a kind of plug back system as it seems to be tiny board.
My CD transport on the miniSharc SPDIF input, the RPi on the I2S and then the miniSharc I2S to BII... Really don't know and much more money which I don't have now for that. Maybe the Allo DigiOne can be a top waiting solution for some months... years...
RPi digital output boards: a case of SPDIF vs I2S
Let's state that best SPDIF board is the DigiOne, even if Allo replied my mail in a very cold and short answer and the fact reviews seems to be made... by people who get the board as "a gift".
How's the I2S output? Still this low quality I2S issue, and I don't see Allo Kali in the supported device in Moode. And Kali is often associated with hiccups. Other I2S boards? Ian's one is very expensive :'(
But maybe the MiniShac will re-clock/clean the I2S? Some much things to guess or to dig deep in thousands of threads...
Let's state that best SPDIF board is the DigiOne, even if Allo replied my mail in a very cold and short answer and the fact reviews seems to be made... by people who get the board as "a gift".
How's the I2S output? Still this low quality I2S issue, and I don't see Allo Kali in the supported device in Moode. And Kali is often associated with hiccups. Other I2S boards? Ian's one is very expensive :'(
But maybe the MiniShac will re-clock/clean the I2S? Some much things to guess or to dig deep in thousands of threads...
.
Hi Malefoda
Well I never ! ...
... another TREASURE in a small box !
NICE box ! ... I have Space Egg blue plastic, of course, but I like yours a lot.
I have a Pi ... But not much sound action with it as yet.
How's the sound on yours doing ?
I see you have a BNC sticking out there ...
... must be your Hi-End 'Pro' SPDIF connector, right ? ;-)
You got an add on card for the Pi then.
Si.
t.S.E.c
.
Hi Malefoda
Well I never ! ...
... another TREASURE in a small box !
NICE box ! ... I have Space Egg blue plastic, of course, but I like yours a lot.
I have a Pi ... But not much sound action with it as yet.
How's the sound on yours doing ?
I see you have a BNC sticking out there ...
... must be your Hi-End 'Pro' SPDIF connector, right ? ;-)
You got an add on card for the Pi then.
Si.
t.S.E.c
.
Hi... Simon?
That's no more mine, that was a PiFi Digi card and yes integrated with "shoehorn" as we say in french, I guess a tight fit in english (which is close to a fight fit in that case!).
Maybe these were USB ports I've removed, then that "all 75R BNCs at home" connector.
Sound was OK but not as clean/dynamic/real as with the new one.
That non-accurate sample frequency device is gone, I have another tight fit case. And no more WiFi.
Want to see a pic of the Allo Digione intergration of mine?
That's no more mine, that was a PiFi Digi card and yes integrated with "shoehorn" as we say in french, I guess a tight fit in english (which is close to a fight fit in that case!).
Maybe these were USB ports I've removed, then that "all 75R BNCs at home" connector.
Sound was OK but not as clean/dynamic/real as with the new one.
That non-accurate sample frequency device is gone, I have another tight fit case. And no more WiFi.
Want to see a pic of the Allo Digione intergration of mine?
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DOH ! ... I2S already baked in a pie !
.
Of course I do !
I looked at stuff like 'Wolfson' DAC hats & stuff I think a while back.
Can't recall what really, other than one with a 'Wolfson' on.
I didn't realise the Pi had an I2S Bus ! ... DOH !
I suppose one could just connect that straight to the DACs I2S Bus & forgetabout SPDIF ?
Mmm ... I'm an ol' farty Philips fan myself.
Si.
t.S.E.c
.
.
Of course I do !
I looked at stuff like 'Wolfson' DAC hats & stuff I think a while back.
Can't recall what really, other than one with a 'Wolfson' on.
I didn't realise the Pi had an I2S Bus ! ... DOH !
I suppose one could just connect that straight to the DACs I2S Bus & forgetabout SPDIF ?
Mmm ... I'm an ol' farty Philips fan myself.
Si.
t.S.E.c
.
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