Steal the I2S but its not 44.1 nor 48kHz clock ability AFAIR ='(
here is the plastic "waiting case". Compact but not what I like... later I'll plan some metal around, maybe DigiOne Siganture for the better Jitter management (clocks with lower phase noise they say)... maybe supply à la Reflektor-D for the DOS...
Must be funny, in a rich man's world.
here is the plastic "waiting case". Compact but not what I like... later I'll plan some metal around, maybe DigiOne Siganture for the better Jitter management (clocks with lower phase noise they say)... maybe supply à la Reflektor-D for the DOS...
Must be funny, in a rich man's world.
Attachments
AH ! ... Nothing like a bit of Swedish pop to liven the senses !
.
" Must be funny, in a rich man's world "
I'm NOT laughing !
Looks like you got 'The latest Model' ...
... BAH ! ... I'm still stuck with the stickingoutyend model II.
Oh I don't mind really ... the new one's only 30 Quid ...
... just managed to score a 'Rolls Royce' Mac on evilBay for 200 smackers though !
It's just not as funky & pocket sized though.
Nice tube-dampers on that new case of yours.
Some swear by atomic Rubidium Clocks, detractors say they have more phase noise ...
... can't win even with loadsamoney.
Yeah your HEAVY METAL case ROCKED ! ...
... I'm feeling really depressed now with my MKII in cheap Space Egg blue plastic.
Ah! ... The Stone Roses out & about LOUD ! on the ol' Sony Pro-Walkman from a +5 TDK-SA ...
... those were the days ... simple & no jitter to worry about, except on Monday mornings.
You can have your pie AND eat it !
Si.
t.S.E.c
.
.
" Must be funny, in a rich man's world "
I'm NOT laughing !
Looks like you got 'The latest Model' ...
... BAH ! ... I'm still stuck with the stickingoutyend model II.
Oh I don't mind really ... the new one's only 30 Quid ...
... just managed to score a 'Rolls Royce' Mac on evilBay for 200 smackers though !
It's just not as funky & pocket sized though.
Nice tube-dampers on that new case of yours.
Some swear by atomic Rubidium Clocks, detractors say they have more phase noise ...
... can't win even with loadsamoney.
Yeah your HEAVY METAL case ROCKED ! ...
... I'm feeling really depressed now with my MKII in cheap Space Egg blue plastic.
Ah! ... The Stone Roses out & about LOUD ! on the ol' Sony Pro-Walkman from a +5 TDK-SA ...
... those were the days ... simple & no jitter to worry about, except on Monday mornings.
You can have your pie AND eat it !
Si.
t.S.E.c
.
Last edited:
I think I don't catch all, kinda not right for school your english sir
RPi 2, Moode Audio 4.3 and Allo DigiOne, I can live with it for ever, just sounds good. And Fiio silicon band to hold your headamp and your smartphone
Yep I like Black Metal, Trve Kvlt to heavy metal cases!
As we are here, people with DigiOne Signature?!
RPi 2, Moode Audio 4.3 and Allo DigiOne, I can live with it for ever, just sounds good. And Fiio silicon band to hold your headamp and your smartphone
Yep I like Black Metal, Trve Kvlt to heavy metal cases!
As we are here, people with DigiOne Signature?!
" Oops, not really related to SPDIF "
Hi Olsond, Malefoda & everyone
I'm sure no one minds that.
Perhaps anyway, IT IS related to SPDIF.
If there is an affordable & perhaps better way, to get a digi-out on the Pi, we wanna know !
I haven't looked into this Pi-DAC or Pi to DAC thing much at all ...
... mainly cos I had wanted a practical & sounds good rec. from someone who's already done it.
But maybe I have a new more DIY idea for it ?
I'm sure Malefoda could just as well add an IS2-In to a DAC, as easily as SPDIF to a Pi.
The clock thing I'm not too sure of though.
I'm thinking 'aloud' here ... as usual !
My experience is really limited to a basic understanding of the 'Classic' Philips TDA1541 in CD player use ...
... & the TDA1541 + 4x Oversampling/or NOS + CSxxxx receiver chip in many typical DACs.
The I2S signal would have to be 're-clocked' before going into the DAC ?
As for example, re-clocking with a simple logic-chip & oscillator, when removing a 4x Oversampling chip.
DOH ! sorry, that is not a very clear explanation OR question.
It's late !
OK ... Specifically, my thought on, let's just say, getting 'Digital' out of a Pi & into a DAC.
I have a nice DAC which is part of a possibly expired-laser Philips based TDA 1541 CD player.
If I were to bin the case, the transport & probably the PSU section as well ...
... draw a line on the board around just the TDA1541 & audio-output section, cut round with a hacksaw ...
... leaving me with just the DAC chip & output stage & possibly it's clock.
If I want the best quality link to the DAC from the Pi ...
... bearing in mind, as my butchered board stands, it doesn't have a receiver chip ...
... what do I need, or have to do, to get I2S out of the Pi & into the DAC at a 'normal' sample-rate of 44.1KHz etc. ?
Either the Pi. must output I2S at 44.1KHz, probably not that well, IF it can do it at all ...
... or I need to re-clock the Pi I2S with a simple DIY logic-chip job ...
... using either the butchered CD players onboard clock OR a new one I've made.
I'm sure you guys know what I'm getting at.
Turn Pi into quality DACed media-player, using old TDA1541 & audio-output section from a bust-transport CD player.
I can work out the 'fine details' myself.
I just can't quite understand how & where the 2 boards would be 'clocked together.
I guess it means 'slaving' the Pi to the hopefully better quality & correct speed DIY or old CD player clock.
I rest my case !
Maybe the best Raspberry Pi SPDIF hat ? ... to get Pi digi-out to a DAC ...
... Is in fact an I2S connection, clock, & a couple of sockets on Pi & DAC ?
Si.
t.S.E.c
If anyone has any possibly useful schematics/drawings of a similar concept ...
... or SPDIF stuff, re-clocking, or anything interesting, please Post them.
.
Hi Olsond, Malefoda & everyone
I'm sure no one minds that.
Perhaps anyway, IT IS related to SPDIF.
If there is an affordable & perhaps better way, to get a digi-out on the Pi, we wanna know !
I haven't looked into this Pi-DAC or Pi to DAC thing much at all ...
... mainly cos I had wanted a practical & sounds good rec. from someone who's already done it.
But maybe I have a new more DIY idea for it ?
I'm sure Malefoda could just as well add an IS2-In to a DAC, as easily as SPDIF to a Pi.
The clock thing I'm not too sure of though.
I'm thinking 'aloud' here ... as usual !
My experience is really limited to a basic understanding of the 'Classic' Philips TDA1541 in CD player use ...
... & the TDA1541 + 4x Oversampling/or NOS + CSxxxx receiver chip in many typical DACs.
The I2S signal would have to be 're-clocked' before going into the DAC ?
As for example, re-clocking with a simple logic-chip & oscillator, when removing a 4x Oversampling chip.
DOH ! sorry, that is not a very clear explanation OR question.
It's late !
OK ... Specifically, my thought on, let's just say, getting 'Digital' out of a Pi & into a DAC.
I have a nice DAC which is part of a possibly expired-laser Philips based TDA 1541 CD player.
If I were to bin the case, the transport & probably the PSU section as well ...
... draw a line on the board around just the TDA1541 & audio-output section, cut round with a hacksaw ...
... leaving me with just the DAC chip & output stage & possibly it's clock.
If I want the best quality link to the DAC from the Pi ...
... bearing in mind, as my butchered board stands, it doesn't have a receiver chip ...
... what do I need, or have to do, to get I2S out of the Pi & into the DAC at a 'normal' sample-rate of 44.1KHz etc. ?
Either the Pi. must output I2S at 44.1KHz, probably not that well, IF it can do it at all ...
... or I need to re-clock the Pi I2S with a simple DIY logic-chip job ...
... using either the butchered CD players onboard clock OR a new one I've made.
I'm sure you guys know what I'm getting at.
Turn Pi into quality DACed media-player, using old TDA1541 & audio-output section from a bust-transport CD player.
I can work out the 'fine details' myself.
I just can't quite understand how & where the 2 boards would be 'clocked together.
I guess it means 'slaving' the Pi to the hopefully better quality & correct speed DIY or old CD player clock.
I rest my case !
Maybe the best Raspberry Pi SPDIF hat ? ... to get Pi digi-out to a DAC ...
... Is in fact an I2S connection, clock, & a couple of sockets on Pi & DAC ?
Si.
t.S.E.c
If anyone has any possibly useful schematics/drawings of a similar concept ...
... or SPDIF stuff, re-clocking, or anything interesting, please Post them.
.
Attachments
The Space Egg: Looks like the TDA1541 chip has an I2S interface. I didn't study it closely, but it appears to handle 8x oversample data rate. It appears to operate as an I2S slave. So you may be able to just connect it directly to the PI, bit clock, data and Word Select lines. Run something like the Volumio software player on the Pi and there is probably a configuration that would work. If you are interested in reclocking to reduce jitter, Raspberry Pi audio DACs, Digi and amplifiers has a board for that. The Boss DAC that I mentioned is only $60 US, so you might also look at that.
You can have a look here:
The Raspberry Pi: Audio out through I2S | Dimdim's Blog
The I2S from the Raspberry is badly generated, lot of jitter and the Raspberry can't generate 44.100 as it's not a multiple from its onboard clock.
So people use such thing:
Kali (i2s Reclocker)
Voilà
edit: ok get it cheap with an external USB board (from Pi) to I2S for your TDA1541. Amanero is the famous one, Xmos based may need driver or something like a great cheap M6631A ( CM6631A 192KHZ to I2S and Coaxial Optical SPDIF ). Don't know which is ok with a Pi and the software you want to use, have to check if supported, that may bring you down to fewer boards. Time to read
The Raspberry Pi: Audio out through I2S | Dimdim's Blog
The I2S from the Raspberry is badly generated, lot of jitter and the Raspberry can't generate 44.100 as it's not a multiple from its onboard clock.
So people use such thing:
Kali (i2s Reclocker)
Voilà
edit: ok get it cheap with an external USB board (from Pi) to I2S for your TDA1541. Amanero is the famous one, Xmos based may need driver or something like a great cheap M6631A ( CM6631A 192KHZ to I2S and Coaxial Optical SPDIF ). Don't know which is ok with a Pi and the software you want to use, have to check if supported, that may bring you down to fewer boards. Time to read
Last edited:
Hi Olsond
Yes thanks for that.
I think also that the 'vintage' TDA1541 is 'slave' only ...
... BUT it is quite popular to re-clock the I2S input to that DAC.
Both to clean-up average CD-player clock & clock from older CSxxxx chips.
I'm not quite sure how that works though, but have a couple of schematics.
Regular CD & DAC crystal is 11.xxxx ( I have some & oscillators ) ...
... someone was saying Raspberry Pi clock is a different & non-multiple speed. :-(
Is it possible to get I2S at correct speed straight from the Pi without any add-on boards ?
I'm sure a simple & accurate re-clocker for TDA I2S bus, is only a few parts & a clock or osc.
Mmm ...
I read all the << Pages.
Didn't look at the 'hats' though, cos maybe thought I would get away 'HATLESS' ! ;-)
Si.
t.S.E.c
.
Yes thanks for that.
I think also that the 'vintage' TDA1541 is 'slave' only ...
... BUT it is quite popular to re-clock the I2S input to that DAC.
Both to clean-up average CD-player clock & clock from older CSxxxx chips.
I'm not quite sure how that works though, but have a couple of schematics.
Regular CD & DAC crystal is 11.xxxx ( I have some & oscillators ) ...
... someone was saying Raspberry Pi clock is a different & non-multiple speed. :-(
Is it possible to get I2S at correct speed straight from the Pi without any add-on boards ?
I'm sure a simple & accurate re-clocker for TDA I2S bus, is only a few parts & a clock or osc.
Mmm ...
I read all the << Pages.
Didn't look at the 'hats' though, cos maybe thought I would get away 'HATLESS' ! ;-)
Si.
t.S.E.c
.
" ok get it cheap with an external USB board (from Pi) to I2S for your TDA1541 "
Hi Malefoda
You know what ? ...
... I already have one of those PCMxxxx boards installed for another TDA1541 DAC !
I had totally forgotten about it, cos I don't use USB at all.
My friend Patrick used USB, for Mac to DAC ...
... I always figured he'd do good to get a USB isolator of some sort for that rig.
He said the Thorsten recommended software, for cutting down Mac CPU noise has a significant effect !
But it only works when playing files from your 'puter & not when streaming those horrible Spotty files ! ... YUK ! :-(
He's got the whole shebang isolated by WiFi now & controls it all from his cellphone !
HOLY COW ! ... How many microchips is that ?
Too complex for this ol' 2 transistor analog boy that's fer sure !
L a t e r . . .
TOO MUCH reading to do ... & not enough time before they nail my lid on. ;-)
Si.
t.S.E.c
.
Hi Malefoda
You know what ? ...
... I already have one of those PCMxxxx boards installed for another TDA1541 DAC !
I had totally forgotten about it, cos I don't use USB at all.
My friend Patrick used USB, for Mac to DAC ...
... I always figured he'd do good to get a USB isolator of some sort for that rig.
He said the Thorsten recommended software, for cutting down Mac CPU noise has a significant effect !
But it only works when playing files from your 'puter & not when streaming those horrible Spotty files ! ... YUK ! :-(
He's got the whole shebang isolated by WiFi now & controls it all from his cellphone !
HOLY COW ! ... How many microchips is that ?
Too complex for this ol' 2 transistor analog boy that's fer sure !
L a t e r . . .
TOO MUCH reading to do ... & not enough time before they nail my lid on. ;-)
Si.
t.S.E.c
.
Hello everybody, I gotta admit I didn't read the whole thread, don't understand the whole tech thing since I am very new to Pi but just got mine today and was up and running in 30 minutes, just got the plain board (3B+) which connects to an external DAC (Beresford Caiman SEG) through USB, I just want to figure if this is a good solution rather than to connect the MacBookAir on need which is not quite friendly even tho using it to arrange playlists, set EQ etc makes it very easy but I want a stand alone solution and as such I am gonna give the Pi a test.
I'd like to skip the USB, which I understand being not the best since it's shared with the ETH (which I use to connect the Pi to a router) and also would like to use a coaxial output so that I can use that input on the DAC and leave the USB for eventual other usage (say the laptop) and the two optical to the TV and CD player so, long story short, without to go for the million dollar board which HAT would you suggest to get optical/coaxial output?
If things work out nicely I am also thinking to get a board to stack either a 2.5" drive or an SSD so that music can be locally stored so I already see the Pi growing like a multi layer cake :-D
Thank you for your attention
Giovanni
I'd like to skip the USB, which I understand being not the best since it's shared with the ETH (which I use to connect the Pi to a router) and also would like to use a coaxial output so that I can use that input on the DAC and leave the USB for eventual other usage (say the laptop) and the two optical to the TV and CD player so, long story short, without to go for the million dollar board which HAT would you suggest to get optical/coaxial output?
If things work out nicely I am also thinking to get a board to stack either a 2.5" drive or an SSD so that music can be locally stored so I already see the Pi growing like a multi layer cake :-D
Thank you for your attention
Giovanni
Hi,
I'm coming into this a bit late as I've just bought a RP3B+
Looking at all these hats they all appear to have the same WM8804 or 8805 chipset and 27Mhz crystal. I'd avoid circuits with over complex architecture and opt for one with a larger ground plane (open space with copper between components) as the circuit is relatively, in digital terms, simple.
I did notice the $121 version is the only one without an isolating transformer(!) and that most of the hats are exactly the same board with different prices - I found the PiFi Digi+ v1.0 on fleaBay right now for £17.99
The ONLY single question I have as a new RP user is that on the Swiss made HifiBerry Digi+ board it has printed: "config.txt: dtoverlay-hifiberry-digi" and I'm worried that buying a cheaper chinese unit will mean searching around for months for libraries to get it working - anyone got any wisdom / experience on this?
Cheers
I'm coming into this a bit late as I've just bought a RP3B+
Looking at all these hats they all appear to have the same WM8804 or 8805 chipset and 27Mhz crystal. I'd avoid circuits with over complex architecture and opt for one with a larger ground plane (open space with copper between components) as the circuit is relatively, in digital terms, simple.
I did notice the $121 version is the only one without an isolating transformer(!) and that most of the hats are exactly the same board with different prices - I found the PiFi Digi+ v1.0 on fleaBay right now for £17.99
The ONLY single question I have as a new RP user is that on the Swiss made HifiBerry Digi+ board it has printed: "config.txt: dtoverlay-hifiberry-digi" and I'm worried that buying a cheaper chinese unit will mean searching around for months for libraries to get it working - anyone got any wisdom / experience on this?
Cheers
Giovanni,
I'm doing a similar thing - I'll be using the RP3B+ to play movies but I really want to connect it to a small monitor so I can peruse the contents of my music server and play stuff without a Windows PC whirring away.
I have nearly 2Tb of music so until silent, super dense and power efficient Optane memory catches up I'll be using a server in another room.
My DAC is a valve unit based of the Audio Note design, so CS8412 demux with AD1865 current coupled out to an single ended valve stage - very transparent with no oversampling. I wanted the RP as a silent player so I can enjoy subtle Janacek, Mendelsohn and other quiet pieces without being brought back to >EQUIPMENT<
I'm doing a similar thing - I'll be using the RP3B+ to play movies but I really want to connect it to a small monitor so I can peruse the contents of my music server and play stuff without a Windows PC whirring away.
I have nearly 2Tb of music so until silent, super dense and power efficient Optane memory catches up I'll be using a server in another room.
My DAC is a valve unit based of the Audio Note design, so CS8412 demux with AD1865 current coupled out to an single ended valve stage - very transparent with no oversampling. I wanted the RP as a silent player so I can enjoy subtle Janacek, Mendelsohn and other quiet pieces without being brought back to >EQUIPMENT<
I'm simply stunned that there isn't more collaboration on projects in these forums.
You would think by now we'd have our own corner and that nearly every chinese knockoff would be out of business.
"I'd avoid circuits with over complex architecture and opt for one with a larger ground plane (open space with copper between components) as the circuit is relatively, in digital terms, simple."
Completely agreed
The lengths some go to makes one wonder if they actually enjoy the music or the difficulty
Not all hats are the same, but the advantages in complexity generally fall quickly after they gain.
Don't forget to enjoy your music
You would think by now we'd have our own corner and that nearly every chinese knockoff would be out of business.
"I'd avoid circuits with over complex architecture and opt for one with a larger ground plane (open space with copper between components) as the circuit is relatively, in digital terms, simple."
Completely agreed
The lengths some go to makes one wonder if they actually enjoy the music or the difficulty
Not all hats are the same, but the advantages in complexity generally fall quickly after they gain.
Don't forget to enjoy your music
Hi,
please read the thread carefully, seems you just had a quick look and missed some =) The Allo DigiOne uses 2 low phase noise crystals, because none of the RPI nor the 27mHz clock applied after on that already crappy clock can match a brand new 44.1 or a 48kHz multiple clock generated by high quality oscillators. And galvanic isolation can be done in several ways, not only transformer. The Allo is isolated.
The Pifi takes the "none 44.1/48kHz" dirty clock from I2S and the WM88xx just puts it in a serial bus, the SPDIF and nothing more. It is still not at 44.1 nor 48kHz multiple and jitter is high.
The Allo outputs the real frequency clock and ultra-low jitter, isolated. Maybe it seems complex but like Ian canada top work, it seems you must use a lot of effort to get the last improvement in performance, in other words maybe we are at the point of diminishing returns.
But back to the real music world: I've owned both Pifi (I admit it's OK for Low/Mid-Fi, but not if you have top DAC/AMP/Speakers) and the Allo. The Allo sounds way better on my system. Allo has some overkill (maybe) and overpriced (IMHO) DigiOne signature, so some owners of the DigiOne are ready to sell it, post an ad in "swap meet" to buy a used one, you won't regret it. Other boards are somewhere between, maybe closer to the PiFI but maybe with a tad less jitter/noise.
My 2¢, if you have a Mid-Fi system maybe the PiFi is enough, if getting the best is what you want on your beloved top speakers then don't waste £17.99 and buy the DigiOne. In between steps are "non-choices" Cheap or Great, nothing else
Last edited:
Many thanks for the info! I used to work for Audio Note and our digital boards actually got simpler over time. If you've every tried using a DVD player as a CD transport you'll know the results are horrible!!! So Thats really interesting what you say about a high frequency modulated SPDIF signal - thats such a nasty trick! Yep, ther'll be tons of jitter and noise on that!
Now that said, the digital square wave is not measured from the median point of that clock cycle i.e. in the middle, but from the start of the square wave. So if you have a slow op-amp or some capacitance in the cables that rolls off your digital signal then you might find the DAC misreads the signal. So having a 27Mhz clock freq and simply having it high or low depending on the input is actually a pretty neat cheap solution that'll work for most consumer audio.
I do wonder if the EVGA / Audio Note USB DAC thats out soon will work with RP, it should do. That'll be the best solution.
Now that said, the digital square wave is not measured from the median point of that clock cycle i.e. in the middle, but from the start of the square wave. So if you have a slow op-amp or some capacitance in the cables that rolls off your digital signal then you might find the DAC misreads the signal. So having a 27Mhz clock freq and simply having it high or low depending on the input is actually a pretty neat cheap solution that'll work for most consumer audio.
I do wonder if the EVGA / Audio Note USB DAC thats out soon will work with RP, it should do. That'll be the best solution.
Yep, that's a good old S/PDIF thread, like good old Audio Note... until USB
Side note, I've been wondering for a while if a plain switch can switch 2 input BNCs when we're fighting to keep the line 75R. So the switch may mess it all on paper.
And then I've seen Audio Note used a switch with both RCA or BNC wired. Tried and hooked up the scope: a very slight touch of ringing added but nothing to worry about.
Voilà!
Side note, I've been wondering for a while if a plain switch can switch 2 input BNCs when we're fighting to keep the line 75R. So the switch may mess it all on paper.
And then I've seen Audio Note used a switch with both RCA or BNC wired. Tried and hooked up the scope: a very slight touch of ringing added but nothing to worry about.
Voilà!
Err yeah, in my living room I have an old printer switch which was gutted, I added a 5 position rotary switch then soldered unsheilded leads to RCA sockets and its worked just fine for 15 years, ahem...
USB can be fine - I record using an RME UCX interface and thats rock solid, in fact if I'm honest it sounds better than the top end AN CD transport. If only I could afford a 2nd one for the living room.
USB can be fine - I record using an RME UCX interface and thats rock solid, in fact if I'm honest it sounds better than the top end AN CD transport. If only I could afford a 2nd one for the living room.
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.