Marantz CD32 vs Mini Muse DAC

[redrooster]

Why is the DAC in my old Marantz CD32 so much better than the stand-alone Mini Muse DAC that I use on my computer? I can rip a CD to my computer at 320 and it sounds like crap when played back through my Mini Muse DAC, compared to the original CD played back on the Marantz CD32. I thought digital music didnt lose anything when it was copied, that it was exactly the same? I don't have a digital input on the Marantz to compare my computers MPEG files through its built-in DAC. Is there a built-in program in CDs to discourage high-quality CD music copying? Is there some way to copy a CD to playback the exact same way as the original? I know there is FLAC which is better than MPEG for copying. I would like to know if anyone has heard of any new developments or hacks into the high-quality reproduction/copying of CDs?

 

[abraxalito]

You might not be comparing apples to apples here. Is your Marantz feeding the same amp as your Muse Mini ? Computer DACs suffer greatly due to common-mode noise from the computer's SMPSU, in contrast CD players tend to have linear power supplies.

 

[redrooster]

Yes, they're both feeding the signal into a Sansui AU-11000 amplifier, then DCM QED 1A speakers. The signal and power are both input to the Mini Muse on the same USB cable, there are 2 other inputs on the MM, a Toslink and a Coaxial but it makes no difference if I connect either of them up, the music sounds the same? There's no other power input except for the USB cable. I must be missing something here?

 

[abraxalito]

I don't think I've ever played with a Muse Mini but it could be quite similar to the Muse 4*TDA1543 right? DACs powered by USB power are normally very susceptible to the quality of the 5V, which from most computers is of abominable quality. By which I mean very noisy with PC-generated artifacts so that even mouse movements can be heard when feeding the DAC into headphones. Try using an external USB power supply with the same DAC, preferably one which uses batteries or next best, a linear PSU.

 

[redrooster]

Yeah, that sounds like the best way to go, I just have to find how to re-route the signal from the USB cable to the Toslink input?

 

[abraxalito]

Something like this? https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?sp...8nbKs6p&id=42732879567&ns=1&abbucket=2#detail

 

[redrooster]

Like this!

 

[miro1360]

or install inside isolated DC-DC, there are many choices from DCP0205xx or DCP0105xx series with some regulator ... I used it in my dac ..

 

[redrooster]

I'm not sure that I can add another power supply to this DAC because the signal comes in on the same USB power supply from the computer? The DAC does have a Toslink input connection and a coaxial input but I can't get any info on this bloody thing so I'm throwing it out. I'm going to start looking for a decently priced DAC that is known to sound great.

 

[linuxfan]

redrooster, also be aware that the USB decoder in your Mini Muse - a PCM2704 - is mediocre, and this is a limiting factor in sound quality.

I'm going to start looking for a decently priced DAC that is known to sound great.

Yes, if you want quality computer audio, you should step up to a quality DAC.
About 6 months ago I recommended this DAC to a friend who is now using it to improve the audio output of a MacBook Pro. He loves it -
NEW SE2 PRO ES9018K2M+SA9023+AD823X2 USB DAC decoder amp machine | eBay
ESS ES9018J2M DAC chip, Savitech SA9023 USB decoder.

Today (late 2017) I suggest the latest ES9028Q2M DACs, that I just listed over in the "Which budget USB DAC under 200USD" thread -
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/digital-line-level/313024-budget-usb-dac-200usd-5.html#post5205685

Also, with hard drive space so cheap these days, don't bother encoding your rips to MP3, even at higher rates. Go full lossless compression, with FLAC.

 

[miro1360]

delta-sigma dacs are mediocre

 

[redrooster]

I noticed the DAC you mentioned doesn't have a linear power supply? I was under the impression that SMPS used with a DAC is a significant limiting factor? Either, this DAC would be even better with a linear power supply, or the designer of this DAC has overcome the SMPS interference, or its a myth? This is why I need help choosing a DAC, there is so much hype surrounding these things. The final arbiter, after all, is the sound it puts out. I'm not too sure about using FLAC because I burnt a 320 MP3 file of Dark Side Of The Moon to a CD yesterday and when I played it back it sounded exactly the same as the original? Thanks for pointing out the Budget DAC thread for me, it's appreciated.

 

[linuxfan]

I noticed the DAC you mentioned doesn't have a linear power supply?

To be clear, I mentioned 3 DACs:
- Breeze SE2 US$40
- Weiling E19 $US70
- Weiling/Breeze U9 US$110

Yes, the first two don't come with a linear power supply, and the reason is simple: price. To add a good quality linear supply these units might double their price, and the designer would also need to increase the size of the enclosure. So the designer has provided the maximum amount of technology at the lowest price, and being aware of the compromised power supply situation, has also likely put some filters, ferrites, or chokes, on the power input connections.
Actually the E19 can be bought with a large capacity internal battery, and I suspect it sounds best this way.
And of course you can also buy an external linear supply separately - this can even be used with the supercheap SE2 - by connecting via a USB power breakout cable.

I'm not too sure about using FLAC because I burnt a 320 MP3 file of Dark Side Of The Moon to a CD yesterday and when I played it back it sounded exactly the same as the original?

Listening through what audio system? A desktop computer? With standard sound card? With Mini Muse DAC?
As you move up to a better DAC, and your digital playback improves in SQ, this is likely to be more revealing of your digital source files !!!
To be honest, I barely hear a difference, myself, but I made a decision to build my digital music library using FLAC in the interests of future-proofing. There might be a new digital transport released tomorrow, or ladder DAC, or whatever, which jumps to the next sound quality level, and the difference between compressed and uncompressed audio becomes more apparent.
And for the record, the friend of mine who recently bought the US$40 DAC tells me that he can hear the difference between 240kbps MP3 and FLAC - specifically, listening to War of the Worlds.

 

[redrooster]

Thanks for the recommendations for a DAC. I thought it went without saying that I would've played the burnt CD back through my Marantz CD32, Sansui AU-11000 amplifier and DCM QED 1A Speakers because I've already mentioned that previously?

 

[linuxfan]

Ah sorry, it didn't register for me that a CD player could play MP3's.
Now I see your CD player is a serious piece of kit. It will take some very decent computer playback hardware if you want to match that SQ level. The DAC is only one part of the equation, you also need a transport which is low jitter, and preferably bit-perfect. A good USB decoder will take care of the jitter, but getting bit-perfect playback from a desktop Windows or Mac computer requires jumping through a few hoops - that's why so many people on this forum are using embedded computers running Linux, instead.

The DAC's I mentioned are over in the "Which budget USB DAC under 200USD" thread, but here are the direct links -
E19 portable amplifier USB SA9226 + ES9028Q2M DSD DAC audio Decoder Support DSD transmission 192K 32BIT -in Amplifier from Consumer Electronics on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
Buy Products Online from China Wholesalers at Aliexpress.com

But now that I realise you are making comparisons to a high end CD player, to achieve comparable SQ I think you need to spend around $500 for a DIY product (eg. TwistedPear Buffalo, Mirand Audio AK4490) or $1000 on a full commercial unit.

 

[redrooster]

OK, thanks mate, I'll check these out and the reviews.