I think Patrick’s idea with the linear voltage regs is great! 😊 If I could choose anything I would vote for a 110ohm AES3 output and if possible aluminium Polymer caps at the linear voltage reg outputs (if LT3045 is used).
Looking forward to see what you pull up your sleeve!
Hi Lucian
I prefer the flexibility of the bare boards but you could offer an option with a case. I definitely support the best voltage regs and clocks you can find. I think it was the inclusion of the NDK oscillators that makes the Bluwave so good. There is a lot of interest in I2S again (I’m currently building an I2S network streamer running on a Sparky) so why not make it like the WaveIO with spdif and I2S. (Easy for me to say
) Good luck!
So far the AD Vregs are definitely taken into account. Moreover, I'll try to add a Vreg for each voltage rail in part obviously, without being redundant.
And yes, there will be polymer caps on this board while remove the MLCCs (in X5R form or so) for as much as possible due to their voltage drift and piezo effect (noise). WaveIO have OsCON poly and is quite stable compared to this stubborn board!
For now I'll stay with SPDIF output only as the I2S port is reserved for a WaveIO MK2 board later on. So, this board will have only SPDIF output... we'll see in which form it will be designed since so far I have to choose from:
1. SPDIF output port in standard 0.5Vpp "format".
2. SPDIF output port with 3.3Vpp output voltage threshold (to driver other CMOS/TTL stages).
3. AES/EBU (pads only, NO connector footprint on the PCB due to small space available).
Any SPDIF input stage? Will it be useful?
Kind regards,
L
And yes, there will be polymer caps on this board while remove the MLCCs (in X5R form or so) for as much as possible due to their voltage drift and piezo effect (noise). WaveIO have OsCON poly and is quite stable compared to this stubborn board!
For now I'll stay with SPDIF output only as the I2S port is reserved for a WaveIO MK2 board later on. So, this board will have only SPDIF output... we'll see in which form it will be designed since so far I have to choose from:
1. SPDIF output port in standard 0.5Vpp "format".
2. SPDIF output port with 3.3Vpp output voltage threshold (to driver other CMOS/TTL stages).
3. AES/EBU (pads only, NO connector footprint on the PCB due to small space available).
Any SPDIF input stage? Will it be useful?
Kind regards,
L
It's rather interesting with the BW board - I had the board fitted to the Line Magnetic LM-502 dac converting the usb to spfif - when fed from the jRiver V23, worked well with few problems but when fed via the SOtM sms-200 server, it's behavior was rather unpredictable - I'm currently using the Schitt EITR (usb -> spdif) to the LM-502 direct spdif input
So far the AD Vregs are definitely taken into account. Moreover, I'll try to add a Vreg for each voltage rail in part obviously, without being redundant.
And yes, there will be polymer caps on this board while remove the MLCCs (in X5R form or so) for as much as possible due to their voltage drift and piezo effect (noise). WaveIO have OsCON poly and is quite stable compared to this stubborn board!
For now I'll stay with SPDIF output only as the I2S port is reserved for a WaveIO MK2 board later on. So, this board will have only SPDIF output... we'll see in which form it will be designed since so far I have to choose from:
1. SPDIF output port in standard 0.5Vpp "format".
2. SPDIF output port with 3.3Vpp output voltage threshold (to driver other CMOS/TTL stages).
3. AES/EBU (pads only, NO connector footprint on the PCB due to small space available).
Any SPDIF input stage? Will it be useful?
Kind regards,
L
Personally I wouldn’t have a use for SPDIF in...
+++++ for WaveIO MK2 [emoji41]!
That's my opinion too so I'll ditch the SPDIF input... for now.
On another hand I decided that this new board will be entirely powered from external supplies! I know plenty of examples when USB power was not up to the requested level ... not to mention that in some cases it simply wasn't enough to power up the board (here I'm speaking about WaveIO).
Does anyone still want USB powering option? or, to put it simpler: is anyone using USB power with good results?
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Hi lorien
I think it is okay it works with usb power, so you can see the board works perfect before adding external psu😊
Else yes best sound with external power.
It is also a question of safety for me with local regs so you do not have to supply psu directly to expensive components.
Kim
+1
If the internal regs are in the league of LT3045s say then there would be no need to bypass them but option for external power inputs are crucial for me.
With internal regs like LT3045 I would just keep them and add external psu with example a lt1085 or even lm317 versus USB as external supply��
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There is a chance to drop the USB powering option because 0.5A (theoretically) might be not enough for this new board. Let's not forget that with linear Vregs, the XMOS chip will "eat" at least 200 mA or more, depending on various factors.
And, the most part of all: if the USB power will be used then there will be direct GND connection between the SPDIF output stage and the USB input stage.
We don't want that, yes?
In addition, using a DC-DC converter just to isolate grounds isn't appealing to me as mainly this means additional noise that have to be filtered not to mention that I like having no SMPS on that board! The digital chips are making enough noise!
And, the most part of all: if the USB power will be used then there will be direct GND connection between the SPDIF output stage and the USB input stage.
We don't want that, yes?
In addition, using a DC-DC converter just to isolate grounds isn't appealing to me as mainly this means additional noise that have to be filtered not to mention that I like having no SMPS on that board! The digital chips are making enough noise!
I will have no use for a Spdif input. When it comes to USB power I am a bit torn. I am currently feeding the BW board with a ISO Regen plus USBPCB (GI on). The ISO Regen is powered by LT3045s in series and the Spdif output of the BW board is powered by LPS-1.2 (with Stammheims HPULNs in series at the input). This sound so great that I really have no need to power it in any other way. However, I do see why you want to drop the USB power but I am a bit afraid that in my setup it will mean yet another PSU that I really want to avoid. Just my two cents.
Hi Micael! I don't think there are any reasons for that! If the PSU you're using to power the SPDIF side of actual BW board is able to source around 0.5A or more there there will be no trouble at all. You simply have to wire it to the external PSU socket of the new one.
The new project will have more Vregs on it thus there are more loses thus needs more current to work properly. Not to mention that I'm thinking to add some additional active stages which will ask for additional current but I'm still debating!
Anyway, I guess I'll get over with 0.5A or so but not all the USB ports are designed to work as per the USB specs so when it comes to get the max out of them then one might have some troubles.
Do not make the mistake and think that I'll put a trafo inside and build my own PSU there. No! I'll just require 5Vdc@0.7A for example (TBD). Due to the fact that Vregs I'll be using now have a wider voltage input range then batteries can be taken into account too. I guess I can go up to 12V or so but I have to check the power dissipation first! There are no promises that I'll keep any above values yet I'll do my best to make it as flexible as possible.
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Hi Lucian
I accidentally deleted the email from you where I asked what was the maximum voltage I could supply the BW board on the SPDIF side. From memory, I think you said 5.5vdc - is this correct?
Also, I'm using the BW with a ISO Regen and need to have the BW board positioned on it's side - is this a problem as the last time I checked the two small heatsinks on the board were quite warm/hot and I'm concerned the components may overheat in this position?
Thanks for your help.
I accidentally deleted the email from you where I asked what was the maximum voltage I could supply the BW board on the SPDIF side. From memory, I think you said 5.5vdc - is this correct?
Also, I'm using the BW with a ISO Regen and need to have the BW board positioned on it's side - is this a problem as the last time I checked the two small heatsinks on the board were quite warm/hot and I'm concerned the components may overheat in this position?
Thanks for your help.
Thanks Lucian! So this means that there will be only one PSU needed to power the whole board (and not two PSU)? If correct then ditching the USB power is the best option for sure.
What kind of active stages are you refering to BTW? Active loads? IME LT3045 voltage regs sounds best with lower voltage drop. Heat dissipation could have negative impact on SQ.
Best regards,
Micael
Yes I can so the external PSU will be!
In fact 5Vdc is but maximum value should be 5.5V you you're partially right!
Anyway, my advice is to stick with 5.0Vdc.Overheating is a problem with actual BW boards. That's because I'm using linear Vregs all over the places. Make sure you will not cover your BW or if you do, try to leave some openings for the air to get to it. It also depends on the room or external temperature. If it's rather cold then I'm assuming you don't have to worry to much but when outside is around 35 - 40 degrees C then you have to take precautions!
As a side note and something amusing to remember is the fact that I ran a couple of tests by overheating the BW cards while running. For that I took my heat gun, set it at 320 C and heat it up. On short therm the BW stopped working when thermal protections were activated but started to sing again after cooldown. On long therm though, things might get uglier so a good ventilation for BW will always be recommended!
Yes! As I told you before, I'm assuming 0.5A will be enough but I can't be sure until I design the board and measure it.
No! The board will have only the SPDIF output... What's after it it's your 'problem'.
As for the active stages, I was strictly referring to the USB side, especially to cleaning the USB data. I have in front of me three variants to do so: one passive and two active stages. I cannot implement all of them but 2/3 were already chosen and I already built the block diagram for them.
To avoid troubles I'll try these two stages on actual WaveIO in Microsoft, MAC and Linux (Ubuntu) and see if are working okay.
I'll NOT do the mistake again of building all on one board and scratch my head if somethings not working properly!
Kind regards,
L
In fact I decided to implement all of 3 variants on one board.Sounds good! I´ll cross my fingers that the passive stage will work wonders!
This is my first step for the new BluWave board I'm planning to build. This new module will be initially tested with actual WaveIO card and is simply a USB cleaner test board. Perhaps I'll order it in lot of 10 PCBs so it will be nice if there are some of you interested in run a couple of tests in parallel with mine on different PC/MAC/Linux configurations.
Since the parts used will be expensive I cannot offer the board for free but you'll only have to pay the part's costs, Paypal and shipping charges. No VAT, no invoices, sorry!
To be clear, this board will be inserted before BluWave / WaveIO board: will have an USB-B input socket and an USB-B out socket and is meant to clean up the USB data paths, USB power will NOT be cleaned since I already took the decision to go for external supply for BW!
Going back to wiring.
Kind regards,
L
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