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My new Boss - another PI-HAT
My new Boss - another PI-HAT
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Old 17th March 2017, 03:29 PM   #61
hopkins is online now hopkins  France
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Paris
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundcheck View Post
Hi.

Just checked the latest Boss driver on a freshly compiled 4.4.50 kernel.
It works.
It also seems to work in "slave" mode. "Seems" because I don't know
a quick way to verify it.

However. The clock driver still gets loaded in slave mode.

There's just one driver for both frequencies btw.
That "..45Mhz" is misleading.
Allo please change this to avoid confusion!

If in slave mode I hope the clock driver turns off
both onboard clocks!! (EMI avoidance) -- Allo - please verify!


I havn't put in the Kali yet.

############

BUT!!!!!!!!!!

With the Boss (or any other DAC of this 51xx DAC family) in place -
you always have to check your alsamixer settings - usually with ssh !!!

You can't trust your distro to have the default settings right!

This might end up into "No Sound" or poor sound!!!

I also ran into the "No sound" trap with Moode!
I will give it another try. RoonBridge always gets the volume right but will double check with alsamixer.
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Old 17th March 2017, 05:49 PM   #62
soundcheck is offline soundcheck  Germany
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Mr. DimDim recently released his shootout (Mambo/Piano/Boss/Kali/Soekris/20k transport) on his blog.

His conclusion:

Code:
To no surprise, both my friend#1’s DAC and my Soekris properly cleaned the
 floor with the HAT DACs and it’s a good thing that they did – otherwise we
 would have felt pretty dumb having wasted so much money on so-called “proper” DACs while we could have got the same result with these DAC HATs.
 Phew.
About "feeling dumb".

You're around for a while dear DimDim. You probably read most of the subject related HAT threads and this or that modification resp. setup proposal.
And then you run such a ridiculous shootout to make sure not to "loose" against the $60 HAT fraction. DimDim u can do better than that.

Enjoy.
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Old 18th March 2017, 10:57 AM   #63
lykkedk is offline lykkedk  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by soundcheck View Post
No. I havn't been using or testing the Soekris DAC. Several times I was close to pull the trigger.
But then all these rather negative aspects I picked up while reading about the DAC and its implementations prevented me to get this DAC.
And No. I don't think that "the prices are not that far apart". If you add up all
extra cost for a "quality" Soekris implementation, you'll look at quite an amount.
There was an announcement from Soekris at the beginning of the year about a DAM1231 HAT. There hasn't been much talk about it lately. I thought that to be a nice idea. However. If it's coming at all, it's gonna be a stripped down
version of the existing DACs as it seems. I couldn't say I'm overly enthusiastic.
Let see how things develop at that front.
Yes... You are right, about price and so, if shuntreg. etc... has to be done also for the Soekris DAC 😄...

Jesper.
__________________
DCG3 Dual DCSTB, R2R DAC in build (2 ReflectorD's (+5VDC/+3.3VDC) + SSLV1.1 (+/-12VDC))
AlephJ Mimi! http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-...mimi-mini.html
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Old 18th March 2017, 02:01 PM   #64
Dimdim is offline Dimdim  Greece
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Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Athens
My new Boss - another PI-HAT
Quote:
Originally Posted by soundcheck View Post
Mr. DimDim recently released his shootout (Mambo/Piano/Boss/Kali/Soekris/20k transport) on his blog.

His conclusion:

Code:
To no surprise, both my friend#1’s DAC and my Soekris properly cleaned the
 floor with the HAT DACs and it’s a good thing that they did – otherwise we
 would have felt pretty dumb having wasted so much money on so-called “proper” DACs while we could have got the same result with these DAC HATs.
 Phew.
About "feeling dumb".

You're around for a while dear DimDim. You probably read most of the subject related HAT threads and this or that modification resp. setup proposal.
And then you run such a ridiculous shootout to make sure not to "loose" against the $60 HAT fraction. DimDim u can do better than that.

Enjoy.
I feel that you kinda missed my point.

I started off my post by stating that it would not be fair to compare these HATs to the Soekris or the Buffalo or pretty much any well-regarder "proper" DAC. It was never a matter of "losing or not losing" - it was just a matter of by how much of a margin. It's one thing to lose by an inch and another by a mile, considering that the price difference can be very dramatic. The recent development in HATs (FIFO, master mode, very good clocks, filtering and power supplies, etc.) have definitely closed the gap - it was a question of by how much.

I'm sure that you too have read around that HATs are "all that you need to get excellent sound" and that there really is no need for a "big old DAC". Up until a few months back many people were skeptical about the RPi's I2S output, considering it to be "more than good enough" and some times even better than the I2S output coming from USB to I2S interfaces. Then Kali came along and put things into perspective.

That is exactly what I did with the quote that you posted. Put things into perspective.

And btw, the combination of RPi + HATs that sounded the best to us cost way more than $60. More like $93 + $60 = $153
That is still not a lot, but it's not pocket change for many parts of the world.
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Old 19th March 2017, 12:17 PM   #65
soundcheck is offline soundcheck  Germany
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Comparing midfi devices - that's what todays "unmodified" HAT DACs are - with
rather high-end gear - IMO is nonsense - waste of time and resources.
Using old HP wall-warts and 7805 based quick-and-dirty supplies, $1.50 RCA cables and $2 ethernet cables just to find out (or to make sure) that a 20k DAC clears the floor over that combo is kind of weird.

Yep - dear DimDim - for sure I missed your point.


However. I do believe - since this is DIY-Audio - that a bit of tweaking and care on implementation (HW and SW!) can make a serious difference with some of todays HAT DACs. I'm not saying though and I never said it, that such a combo will beat reference DACs.

I at least consider my todays installation all but MidFi.
Considering the hours that went into these projects - I probably could have bought a DAC with a golden case.
But. Is that the point here?? Nope! These projects are pure fun.

Quote:
...but it's not pocket change for many parts of the world...
I think these parts of the world won't ever be the target group of your blog.

Since quite some time I'm trying to get away from this insane waste of money
on audio gear. At least from my perspective I made it quite far.
And the overall trend is going into that very same direction.
Which is a good thing!

Enjoy.
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Old 20th March 2017, 12:16 PM   #66
DJ le Roi is offline DJ le Roi
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I have been using Raspberry Pi Audiohats for quite a long time. The last year I mainly used a Hifiberry Dac+ Pro. I feed the Raspberry Pi and the Dac+ Pro separately, both with a LifePo4 PSU. I like the sound very much, in my opinion it is a very good device.

Allo offered me the possibility to try a Boss Dac in exchange for some honest listening impressions. And a few days ago, after approximately 40 hours burn-in time, we (me and a friend) tried one.

First we listened some music on the Dac+ Pro. We listened to Youn Sun Nah – Lento (flac, 44khz), a beautiful song on a beautiful cd. After that we listened to harmOrgan (dsd). On this cd Sigmund Groven and Iver Kleive play together the world's smallest (harmonica) and the world's largest (organ) musical instrument. It is an amazing cd with deep basses and high notes and it is beautifully recorded. The last song we listened to is an aria from Handels Messiah (Hogwood): ‘Who may abide the day of His coming’ (flac, 44khz). This aria is sung by Emmy Kirkby. We both love(d) the sound of the Dac+ Pro.

After that we listened the same songs on the Boss. We used one cheap powersupply. And we were impressed. Knowing that experiencing music is very subjective I will try to write about our experiences with the Boss.

Already without a good psu the Boss sounds very good! The Boss is in control but also lively. The sound of the Boss is coherent but also airy. And the bass? When I read about the super capacitor I was a little bit afraid that the bass would be too loud. But fortunately this is not the case. The bass on the Boss is not louder but deeper. We did not only hear the bass, we also could feel and experience it. The trebles were a little bit harsh but when we replaced the cheap powersupply with one LifePo4 PSU the harshness was gone.

On the art of sound website Blackadder wrote: 'The BOSS has an air of discipline to how it pulls each range in to focus.' Those are exactly the words I was looking for when trying to describe the Boss.

In short, we were and are very impressed by the Boss. It is amazing that it is possible to get such beautiful sound for 70 euros!

I will use the Boss in my study room together with the Volt+ amp. In my living room I use an Raspberry Pi / Allo Kali Reclocker / standalone ES9018 I2S Dac combination. I like this combination very much. A few weeks ago I could not imagine that a Raspberry Pi Dac could beat this combination but I am getting my doubts. The gap is closing and in my opinion the Boss came very close. Maybe one day there will be a Raspberry Pi Dac which will cause me to sell my standalone Dac…

Last edited by DJ le Roi; 20th March 2017 at 12:42 PM.
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Old 20th March 2017, 07:41 PM   #67
lykkedk is offline lykkedk  Denmark
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Denmark, Fredericia
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ le Roi View Post
I have been using Raspberry Pi Audiohats for quite a long time. The last year I mainly used a Hifiberry Dac+ Pro. I feed the Raspberry Pi and the Dac+ Pro separately, both with a LifePo4 PSU. I like the sound very much, in my opinion it is a very good device.

Allo offered me the possibility to try a Boss Dac in exchange for some honest listening impressions. And a few days ago, after approximately 40 hours burn-in time, we (me and a friend) tried one.

First we listened some music on the Dac+ Pro. We listened to Youn Sun Nah – Lento (flac, 44khz), a beautiful song on a beautiful cd. After that we listened to harmOrgan (dsd). On this cd Sigmund Groven and Iver Kleive play together the world's smallest (harmonica) and the world's largest (organ) musical instrument. It is an amazing cd with deep basses and high notes and it is beautifully recorded. The last song we listened to is an aria from Handels Messiah (Hogwood): ‘Who may abide the day of His coming’ (flac, 44khz). This aria is sung by Emmy Kirkby. We both love(d) the sound of the Dac+ Pro.

After that we listened the same songs on the Boss. We used one cheap powersupply. And we were impressed. Knowing that experiencing music is very subjective I will try to write about our experiences with the Boss.

Already without a good psu the Boss sounds very good! The Boss is in control but also lively. The sound of the Boss is coherent but also airy. And the bass? When I read about the super capacitor I was a little bit afraid that the bass would be too loud. But fortunately this is not the case. The bass on the Boss is not louder but deeper. We did not only hear the bass, we also could feel and experience it. The trebles were a little bit harsh but when we replaced the cheap powersupply with one LifePo4 PSU the harshness was gone.

On the art of sound website Blackadder wrote: 'The BOSS has an air of discipline to how it pulls each range in to focus.' Those are exactly the words I was looking for when trying to describe the Boss.

In short, we were and are very impressed by the Boss. It is amazing that it is possible to get such beautiful sound for 70 euros!

I will use the Boss in my study room together with the Volt+ amp. In my living room I use an Raspberry Pi / Allo Kali Reclocker / standalone ES9018 I2S Dac combination. I like this combination very much. A few weeks ago I could not imagine that a Raspberry Pi Dac could beat this combination but I am getting my doubts. The gap is closing and in my opinion the Boss came very close. Maybe one day there will be a Raspberry Pi Dac which will cause me to sell my standalone Dac…
Very nice review Mr.

I was telling everybody (including myself), that i was finish doing diyaudio for this winther ... Anyway i am finding myself chasing another dac -project.

Case is i rebuild my hifi this winther, started out with an full-blown dual mono Salas DCG3 preamp... Hell... i started hearing better channel seperation at that point, eventhrough i was feeding music into my LM4780 gainclone... so next project was my AlephJ-Mimi! (AlephJ-mini), which i tested and have now finished... This build is also dual mono! Now sound became even better (Especially when listning to lowish nice music)... So now i find myself chasing next part of chain

For now i am using an IQaudio DAC, which is ofcause is really good, but having read about the jitter/clocks, i really feel i must try another dac now

Donno if i am in for buying a Boss, maybee, meybee not, but sure its very interessting.

Just my 5cent's.

Jesper.
__________________
DCG3 Dual DCSTB, R2R DAC in build (2 ReflectorD's (+5VDC/+3.3VDC) + SSLV1.1 (+/-12VDC))
AlephJ Mimi! http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/pass-...mimi-mini.html
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Old 21st March 2017, 03:40 PM   #68
soundcheck is offline soundcheck  Germany
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Location: DUS
Quote:
having read about the jitter/clocks
Do not overrate this??

From my experience - on my Mambo modification project - the vast progress wasn't contributed by the Kali.
Of course it made quite a nice step up. And I wouldn't run without it. BUT.

E.g. choice of parts, power supplies, clocking scheme, asf. IMO had seriously more impact then the Kali.

Meanwhile I'm wondering if jitter really has that much of impact,
or if it is not the much more carefully designed environment to achieve
that jitter level that makes the difference to other parts of the DAC!
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Old 22nd March 2017, 11:18 AM   #69
cdsgames is offline cdsgames  Canada
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Who said "everything matters" ?

It does. However its hard to quantify one over the other, they all work together as a unit.

New project announced : DigiOne RCA/BNC output for RPI . I take it you don't have any questions...:-)
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Old 22nd March 2017, 01:32 PM   #70
soundcheck is offline soundcheck  Germany
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Location: DUS
Hmmh.

There are probably still some folks out there using SPDIF DACs.

SPDIF with all its flaws.

Why should I convert I2S to SPDIF and then back to I2S to feed a jittery DAC??
SPDIF DACs from those digital dark ages probably sound worse than a
todays Boss installation.


What I've been looking for - I mentioned that earlier - e.g. was a Kali with autosensing SPDIF/Toslink input.

This way I could 1. use the RPI as streamer and 2. use a Toslink for connecting
SPDIF sources like a TV set.


Good luck with your project.
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