Oppo Sonica DAC

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This looks interesting, could be my first purchase from Oppo.

"flagship ESS ES9038PRO SABRE DAC"
 

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I've owned several Oppo products, as universal players they've been great, analog stages not so great, using them to feed external discrete jfet dacs has worked out pretty well. The new dac seems promising, but I expect it'll be let down by the mediocre analog stage.
 
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Well, Oppo`s Sonica DAC looks quite nice from outside (almost same design/look as HA_1). Let`s take a look inside (as Oppo have recently published the inside picture)...
First thing I wanted to know it was what kind of DAC chip they actually use. As known, ESS have recently released a family of new (upgraded) Sabre version chips, as some dedicated low noise regulators for these new chips.
I took a closer look at the internal picture of Sonica. There is not possible to see the marking of the DAC chip soldered on PCB, but looking at the marking of a ES9038pro, there is a very distinct difference between the chip inside Sonica and the original ES9038pro chip (see bellow comparative picture)...
It looks like Oppo use something else than 9038pro. Maybe ES9028pro, or ES9026pro... But they advertise for 9038Pro inside... Something I can not get it so far...

Else, what more we can see?
There is (another observation): the same design approach for DAC analogue section as for Oppo BDP players. The DAC 8 output channels are configured and distributed in between (most likely connected 2 + 2) the RCA and XLR outputs. Not known what kind of I/V and buffers opamps are used, but it looks to me the I/V are fully differential devices.
The DAC clock it is a little bit different, it seems well shielded, and I have a mistake that it is not an oscillator chip based, but maybe a PLL based one... I could see quite many components under that shield, and such may not be necessary for a usual oscillator device... Well, this supposition it stil be confirmed or not...
The final outputs are AC coupled all...

What is very disappointing (in my opinion) is the further use of a SMPS for the digital stage of the device. The whole power Sonica it need, is specified for 30w (included the one for analogue stage) This it mean that the power necessary for the digital stage is even lower (something about 20w or so). For such low power it was much more beneficial for the device overall quality, the use of a fully linear PSU, for both digital and analogue sections. I think this SMPS approach for a declared high end/quality DAC is really unfortunate and even wrong.
As we can see in the Oppo specifications for this device, the dynamic range as signal to noise figures are 120dB. I find this quite strange, when the ESS advertise for the new 9038pro chip an huge 140 dB level. There is not a very important improvement in this field comparing with HA-1 (ES9018 chip based)...
What is good for this new Oppo DAC (my opinion) is the upgradeable firmware.

In spite of all these above negative observations, and if the inside ES9038pro it will be confirmed, I will buy this device. Why? To modify it. Only modifying it this DAC it will become indeed a very high-end audio piece...
Oppo continue its "tradition" to give to the moders a work to do in this field. This is quite positiv in fact...;)
 

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Well, I found a better picture of the DAC inside Sonica...
It is clear enough, out of this picture, that is about ES9038Pro into the Sonica DAC.
But what about the quite different marking of the ES 9038Pro chips out there? There are some other kind of copies of this chip out on market? It is this possible? Quite confusing...

I can see better in this picture that the clock is well shielded. There are not components to be seen under the shielding, but only the ground soldering pads...
What it may be inside the clock shielding, it still be discovered... It could be a usual oscillator chip and its power provider device...
 

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However, there is one marking on ESS official/original sheet, we can not find on the Oppo picture of the DAC inside Sonica... The marking on the ESS sheet is the same as the one in the red PCB picture I found...
It is quite clear that are two different markings of the ESS9038Pro chips. Why? Which one is the real? Or it are both real/original? It could be two production versions of the same chip? In such case which it may be the differences in between?
Well, quite many questions, without answers (yet)...
 
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Referring to the marking confusion, I pointed out on my previous posts, it looks like there is a reasonable explanation.
There were different production batches (pre production, and full production). As there is known the pre production chips it came out with some issues, it is advisable avoiding the use of that specific marked chips, which it could be on marked out there.
The right marked chips it looks like the one inside Sonica DAC...
 
Still not coming yet in Europe....:confused:

"America first"! Of course...;)

By waiting, you get a more mature product with the software issues better worked out and modifiers time to fix the weaknesses, which include obsolete voltage regulation and electrolytic capacitors in the signal path. Additionally, the ES9038pro dac chip isn't used optimally. Its 8 outputs could be used as 4 in parallel on each stereo output. Instead, Oppo split outputs among left balanced, left unbalanced, right unbalanced, right balanced.
 
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Yes, indeed Oppo stil use the same wrong DAC outputs configuration design, as in previous 105/105D players models. This is only sad, as no any progress it was done here...
This wrong DAC output configuration it was largely criticised before, and it looks like nothing it was heard...
The only Oppo device which it had a right such configuration it was HA-1.
ESS advertised their new DAC chip (9038Pro) for a huge dynamic capability of -140dB. Sonica DAC is specified for >120dB...
Using a SMPS in a such high end declared device is a nonsense, and it is another downgrade from the HA-1, which it was entirely linear powered...

Well, I have finalised already my list of modifications/improvements for this device. I`m waiting only for the opportunity to buy it... I will buy it for the new Sabre DAC chip inside, as for the upgradable firmware. Else, quite much to change inside...
However, I assume it will sounds well together with HA-1, and its excellent class A stage...
 
Sonica all op amp outputs, albeit good ones

Sonica uses LM4562 op amps for I/V conversion and the single-ended outs. The balanced outs use LME49724 op amps. Probably not possible to get 140db without going with low impedance discrete bipolar amplifiers.

Did I mention that the +12v, -12v, and +5v voltage regulation are all by fixed three-terminal regulators? An homage to 1995 and the design of the Marantz CD-53/63?
 
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The beneficial of a linear power for a digital system, over a switching PSU one, for the resulting audio/video signals out of a processing device (as a DAC, or multimedia player device) is more than obvious, and huge. Just do it yourself this experiment, powering a digital processor device from a linear PSU, and compare the results.
Is just very unfortunate that some (decision) engineers does not understood or realise yet this simple fact.
Well, maybe some or many decision factors out there may realise/understand the beneficial of a linear PSU in a system, but there are the economical reasons which stop/prevent a such design to be (mass) produced. At least here there is quite a paradox: it are much more costly the efforts as design and as production, to minimise the large spectre noises coming from a SMPS, to propagate into the system, even more efforts to filter out such noises both hardware and software, than just using a simple regulator device and some good enough filtering capacities to realise a complete silent PSU.
My developed linear PSU (LPM) which I use for these Oppo devices, it have a residual ripple (50hz and its harmonics) of under 1µV when loaded with 4A, and even lower under lower loads. Only this LF residual noise, and that`s all. Not any of HF noises.
The measured large spectre noises for the SMPS types used in Oppo devices, it goes over 100mV (measured in similar conditions)! Such noises (at their levels) are not to be filtered out, no matter how much the Oppo engineers may understand or want to mitigate them... Such noises are spread into the whole system with negative influence for the whole processing, as for the resulting signals. This is so obvious as night and day. Comparing the same system powered by linear power versus switching type power, it fully confirm the huge differences...

Sonica DAC it need 40w max power. For sure its digital stage it use 20-30w of this total specified power. For these 20-30w Oppo engineers have decided to use a SMPS... Not shielded at all, and quite close to the analogue/DAC stage... It is a such decision the right one? I doubt seriously...
It was enough only one more winding on the already used toroid, a regulator device and some filtering caps to realise a much better power provider for the digital stage, and finally, better parameters for the resulting analog signals...
 
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You've missed my point Coris - I'm not talking about the typical implementations of switching supplies by engineers who don't fully understand the noise implications (the vast majority). I agree mostly the implementations suck. There's no overall benefit of a linear PSU, its dependent on the implementation.

Take an example - if noise were a problem that couldn't be solved then Audio Precision wouldn't have adopted a switching supply in their newer generation of kit. If residual ripple is a desired aim a linear reg can be put after a switching supply.

If you're claiming 100mV of high frequency noise can't be filtered out, I shall take on your challenge and show your claim is erroneous.
 
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