Hi Guys
I used the 10k ohm to 600 ohm Audio Bridging Transformer (because I had it on hand), but as this is a step down transformer - I had to make up the gain in the pre-amp -which doesnt help the S/N ratio
If you are looking to purchase a unit I would strongly suggest the 10K to 10K ohm unit as it has a better low end frequency response 20Hz to 30kHz from the specs
This is the catalogue number M0170
http://www.altronics.com.au/p/m0710-10k-ohm-10k-ohm-bridging-input-transformer/
The fact that the top end is specified to 30kHz should be a bonus as this means less to worry about with hf noise
Cya Peter
I used the 10k ohm to 600 ohm Audio Bridging Transformer (because I had it on hand), but as this is a step down transformer - I had to make up the gain in the pre-amp -which doesnt help the S/N ratio
If you are looking to purchase a unit I would strongly suggest the 10K to 10K ohm unit as it has a better low end frequency response 20Hz to 30kHz from the specs
This is the catalogue number M0170
http://www.altronics.com.au/p/m0710-10k-ohm-10k-ohm-bridging-input-transformer/
The fact that the top end is specified to 30kHz should be a bonus as this means less to worry about with hf noise
Cya Peter
Hi DimDim,
Did you have the chance to compare the DAM1021 to the no-DAC? I know it's been long since that post, but I just came across this interesting thread.
Thank you so much
I'm afraid that I only got as far as getting the boards and the components.. I'm sure I'll get to it someday, but other projects took priority.
no problem, thank you. I'm subscribed to the thread anyway now.
nOOb Question
Hi All,
Happy New Year !
For Christmas bought myself a Cayin N3, really enjoying listening to the DSD recordings.
I would like to try "Best Dac Is No Dac", if I am understanding this can be accomplished DSD files > Amanero > Simple "No Dac" (see link below) > Preamp
Is that correct ?
Simple "No Dac"
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/96454-no-dac-and-no-usb/?tab=comments#comment-1540572
Thank you !
- Mark
Hi All,
Happy New Year !
For Christmas bought myself a Cayin N3, really enjoying listening to the DSD recordings.
I would like to try "Best Dac Is No Dac", if I am understanding this can be accomplished DSD files > Amanero > Simple "No Dac" (see link below) > Preamp
Is that correct ?
Simple "No Dac"
https://www.stereo.net.au/forums/topic/96454-no-dac-and-no-usb/?tab=comments#comment-1540572
Thank you !
- Mark
Hi Mark
It can be a lot of fun trying new approaches with No DAC
The sound produced is very natural, but its not without its problems
You would have to go back thru this thread to see the various approaches that were tried
-the main problems are:
- Noise - both a switching noise and a noise similar to white noise
- Pops and thumps which are due to DC offsets inherent within the DSD signal
The DC offset and clicks and thumps were corrected with a circuit by Nautibuoy, and you would have to track him down for a PCB
Very much an experimental approach
Not recommended for headphone listening because of the problems mentioned
CYa Peter
It can be a lot of fun trying new approaches with No DAC
The sound produced is very natural, but its not without its problems
You would have to go back thru this thread to see the various approaches that were tried
-the main problems are:
- Noise - both a switching noise and a noise similar to white noise
- Pops and thumps which are due to DC offsets inherent within the DSD signal
The DC offset and clicks and thumps were corrected with a circuit by Nautibuoy, and you would have to track him down for a PCB
Very much an experimental approach
Not recommended for headphone listening because of the problems mentioned
CYa Peter
I agree with above writen.
Still with this problems, i could listen music easily, because feeling is natural. For es or ak dacs i couldnt say that.
A more natural sound
Yes I Totally agree
In fact once I've had a taste for a more natural (realistic) sound I am finding I can't go back to 'ordinary' DACs
Even with the noise - which still is a problem the sound is better than that achieved by most DACs
In fact I was so impressed with the sound I thought it could have been me and it was somehow a more 'coloured' sound that I was enjoying - so I set up my system like so:
A vinyl LP playing Cassandra Wilson -Travelling Miles this is a top pressing with great fidelity (180gm on two LPs) feeding a good SQ MC Cartdridge
the same album, but on CD ripped to disk and playing via:
1 Daphile at 128 DSD playing via XMOS to NoDAC/ 74ACT74 to a pre filter feeding an EDCOR XS1100 transformer (Now this transformer is a better option to my way of thinking because it has a meatier core than a Lundhal or Jensen etc which makes it better for those trying things because the core doesn't saturate at low DC offset currents. It also has benign distortion levels and flat frequency response to 50Khz)
2. an XMOS/AK4490 DAC running balanced into my pre - amplifier (and up until this point in time I was satisfied with this DAC)
Once I have adjusted the output/ volume levels of each of the three sources and cued each to be playing the same track at the same time (more or less) i can instantly switch between any of the three sources and therefore immediately detect differences in "the sound" coming from each of the sources ( my pre amp switches via push buttons connected to relays with no perceivable delays between them)
Now for the verdict:
The NoDAC is a better sounding DAC than the AK4490 because it renders ie converts digital into analogue across the whole spectrum of musical sounds
ie human voice, bass, guitars, brass, drums and percussion (ie transients)
Common garden variety DACS (ie DAC chips and others) do a great job with simple sounds eg sine waves ,where there distn levels at 0dB are to be admired and along with there ultra low noise levels give ear bleeding dynamic ranges, but fail to achieve any where near what the specs would suggest with real music..I will explain in my next post.
Regarding the No DAC and Vinyl well I am glad to say this was a close call with this album - some tracks I preferred the phono sound - others the NoDAC - and I know that is going to be controversial - if I haven't been controversial enough
Now the caveat is that the SNR of the NoDAC is poor and so comes a distant third to the other two sources - Vinyl and CD where the signal level is low ie quiet passages in the music - which is pretty rare in contemporary music.
This puts the AK4490 (or other chip dacs) first
Vinyl second
and the NoDAC last
So the upshot of all that is I listen to the NoDAC 90% of the time, Use a DAC DAC where the signal levels are low ( esp if I am using HeadPhones) and I will spin up a Vinyl or two if I am feeling nostalgic ie go completely analogue.
CYa Peter
Yes I Totally agree
In fact once I've had a taste for a more natural (realistic) sound I am finding I can't go back to 'ordinary' DACs
Even with the noise - which still is a problem the sound is better than that achieved by most DACs
In fact I was so impressed with the sound I thought it could have been me and it was somehow a more 'coloured' sound that I was enjoying - so I set up my system like so:
A vinyl LP playing Cassandra Wilson -Travelling Miles this is a top pressing with great fidelity (180gm on two LPs) feeding a good SQ MC Cartdridge
the same album, but on CD ripped to disk and playing via:
1 Daphile at 128 DSD playing via XMOS to NoDAC/ 74ACT74 to a pre filter feeding an EDCOR XS1100 transformer (Now this transformer is a better option to my way of thinking because it has a meatier core than a Lundhal or Jensen etc which makes it better for those trying things because the core doesn't saturate at low DC offset currents. It also has benign distortion levels and flat frequency response to 50Khz)
2. an XMOS/AK4490 DAC running balanced into my pre - amplifier (and up until this point in time I was satisfied with this DAC)
Once I have adjusted the output/ volume levels of each of the three sources and cued each to be playing the same track at the same time (more or less) i can instantly switch between any of the three sources and therefore immediately detect differences in "the sound" coming from each of the sources ( my pre amp switches via push buttons connected to relays with no perceivable delays between them)
Now for the verdict:
The NoDAC is a better sounding DAC than the AK4490 because it renders ie converts digital into analogue across the whole spectrum of musical sounds
ie human voice, bass, guitars, brass, drums and percussion (ie transients)
Common garden variety DACS (ie DAC chips and others) do a great job with simple sounds eg sine waves ,where there distn levels at 0dB are to be admired and along with there ultra low noise levels give ear bleeding dynamic ranges, but fail to achieve any where near what the specs would suggest with real music..I will explain in my next post.
Regarding the No DAC and Vinyl well I am glad to say this was a close call with this album - some tracks I preferred the phono sound - others the NoDAC - and I know that is going to be controversial - if I haven't been controversial enough
Now the caveat is that the SNR of the NoDAC is poor and so comes a distant third to the other two sources - Vinyl and CD where the signal level is low ie quiet passages in the music - which is pretty rare in contemporary music.
This puts the AK4490 (or other chip dacs) first
Vinyl second
and the NoDAC last
So the upshot of all that is I listen to the NoDAC 90% of the time, Use a DAC DAC where the signal levels are low ( esp if I am using HeadPhones) and I will spin up a Vinyl or two if I am feeling nostalgic ie go completely analogue.
CYa Peter
nOOb question..
Yes Mark I agree!
Do this work?
"No-Dac" and "No-USB" - DACs & Digital Source / Transport - StereoNET
Have any here tryd to use this?
Or do You have to use the powered ”no DAC”?
Yes Mark I agree!
Do this work?
"No-Dac" and "No-USB" - DACs & Digital Source / Transport - StereoNET
Have any here tryd to use this?
Or do You have to use the powered ”no DAC”?
Hi Collux, most of us have been playing over in this thread
Official GB for DSD DAC Signalyst DSCv2
I bought a DSC2 v2.5.2 and for the moment it has displaced my No-DAC. The original design was by Jussi Laako (of HQPlayer fame) and Pavel Pogodin has done a tremendous job of implementing this innovative design.
Does it sound better? Unfortunately I can't do A/B comparison but based on my 'impartial' memory I think that the No-DAC has the edge in terms of sound quality - it has an amazingly rich analog sound, DSC2 gets close but not quite the same IMHO. However, I agree with Petr Sheehy - the noise from the no_DAC can be a nuisance, and the DSC 2.5 is deathly quiet. I need to get another USB card so I can compare the 2 side by side and hopefully do something about the noise, but unfortunately, no one has been able to do this since I started this thread a few years ago.
You live in Melbourne? If you are interested I can arrange for you to listen to DSC 2.5 at my place in Eltham.
Regards, Hazard
I read up on this recently, it seems that the 'No Usb' part of this is basically running some flavor of Linux on a BBB or Rpi and running their respective i2s through Ian's FIFO circuit to eliminate jitter. The 'No Dac' part is well covered in this thread, yet in that thread there didn't seem to be a way, at that time, to marry the two approaches.
Well I wonder today if it would be possible to do so. I think it could be the best possible digital approach for all out sound. For instance, the latest BeagleBoard X-15 should have the raw power to handle the PCM-DSD conversion and upsample to DSD256. If so couldn't we marry these two approaches? BBBs can output DSD, I believe.
You're a bit behind the curve. 'No-DAC' doesn't care where it gets its datastream from, just hook up the right connections (data, clock, etc) from whatever you're using (USB/BBB/RPi/, with or without a reclocker) and it will work.
I used a low-power Intel Atom based platform to convert PCM to DSD early on in my No-DAC experiments and it may be possible to use an X-15 in a similar way but I wouldn't go that route. In my experience the best way to get DSD from PCM, (assuming you want the best sound) is by using HQ Player but that is processor intensive and isn't going to run on an X-15. I use a BBB (running Botic) as an HQP NAA in my system, essentially just rendering the DSD data from the network stream, the conversion having been done upstream on a powerful PC. If you want a simple one board conversion/upsampling solution you could just use the AK4137.
Yeah I read some more and realize that the newer FIFO, BBB, Rpi, all support DSD now, so I could marry these technologies. I'd have to use my PC to stream the DSD like you say, then use a BBB or similar as a NAA. I bet it all sounds great.
Do you still produce your mute boards?
Do you still produce your mute boards?
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As I have one of the multichannel DIYINHK boards for USB I2S, I will stick with that for now, I can use it with my ADC for vinyl rips. And with a firmware update, get it to play multichannel DSD. I have an extensive collection of surround music in pcm that I can upsample to DSD. I will be using hazards final noDac circuit into my old amorphous core TVCs. If I cant stand the pops/clicks then I will try the latest mute circuit using the schematics. That will require more research as it is discussed extensively earlier in the thread. I will be doing all of this from Mac, Audirvana + .
I guess the only thing I might want beyond this is an isolator board. Something like the one DIYINHK made for the amanero? Would that even work with my multichannel board? Hazard's new board has one built in.
I guess the only thing I might want beyond this is an isolator board. Something like the one DIYINHK made for the amanero? Would that even work with my multichannel board? Hazard's new board has one built in.