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The Well Tempered Master Clock - Building a low phase noise/jitter crystal oscillator
The Well Tempered Master Clock - Building a low phase noise/jitter crystal oscillator
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Old 11th November 2021, 04:35 AM   #5081
rfbrw is offline rfbrw
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Originally Posted by Evenharmonics View Post
I think you are pretending not to know what the objective of over over-the-top design is with Pagani, Bugatti, Mclaren and certain oscillators.
Why is this any different ?

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Perhaps you have too much free time on your hand.
Given your role as the parrot on Long John Syn08's shoulder you clearly have way more free time than me.
 
Old 11th November 2021, 04:37 AM   #5082
syn08 is offline syn08  Canada
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It has been fun watching each sides gyrations patting themselves on the back.
You too.
 
Old 11th November 2021, 04:42 AM   #5083
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Thanks but there is no way I can compete with someone who gets so aerated by something that makes not a jot of difference to his existence.
 
Old 11th November 2021, 04:48 AM   #5084
syn08 is offline syn08  Canada
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You too.
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Thanks but there is no way I can compete with someone who gets so aerated by something that makes not a jot of difference to his existence.
You didn’t get it, do you .
 
Old 11th November 2021, 04:51 AM   #5085
Evenharmonics is offline Evenharmonics  United States
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Why is this any different ?



Given your role as the parrot on Long John Syn08's shoulder you clearly have way more free time than me.
"That is your problem."

Last edited by Evenharmonics; 11th November 2021 at 04:54 AM.
 
Old 11th November 2021, 05:07 AM   #5086
rfbrw is offline rfbrw
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You didnít get it, do you .
On your behaviour ? That is a definite no. Anything else is a don't care.
 
Old 11th November 2021, 05:09 AM   #5087
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Only if I let it be.
 
Old 11th November 2021, 05:10 AM   #5088
1audio is offline 1audio  United States
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The Well Tempered Master Clock - Building a low phase noise/jitter crystal oscillator
When Andrea started this I supported it even though I was very skeptical of the close in phase noise claims. I was interested in how successful he would be in making a high performance oscillator. In some senses he has been successful. We did not get to learn a lot from his efforts (like how to optimize a Driscoll oscillator or understand crystal specs). (I have a crystal parameter meter and got no input on how to use what it tells me.) Still he seems to have succeeded in making high performance oscillators within certain limits. They are not space grade and not stable enough for GSM but fine for audio.

The problems with comparing to alternative packaged oscillators or even other discrete efforts are the variety of uncontrolled effects when changing. Everything from isolation from loading of the oscillators to EMI/RFI are not being checked for or controlled so its difficult to ascribe the perceived improvement to one aspect. And then a real blind test of any sort is difficult as well.

As for the audio stuff I'm still really skeptical given the worship of analog playback that is orders of magnitude worse in "close in phase noise" effects. You would think analog is unlistenable given how much worse it is.

The only real testing of jitter that has been published suggested thresholds orders of magnitude higher than any decent packaged oscillator.

I'm all in favor of improving anything that has been shown to contribute to better sound but, for example, digital audio has a fundamental digitally defined performance floor. The only way to break through that limit seems to be more bits (not practical) or dither. I have heard of efforts to modulate the clock to add dither and maybe that is happening here. What is missing are any measurements of the analog outputs showing differences between the various clocks.

I stopped focusing on the clocks and switched attention to getting that clocking to the DAC/ADC as cleanly as possible. Its much more difficult than it first seems. Any ground noise coupling back, supply noise cross coupling moving the switching threshold etc. and then load modulation from internal data processing affecting the switching will compromise the overall results.

And there is a real problem when judging your own work, or that of others, in separating your personal investment into the work. If it makes you happier with the results that's great. But its not a guarantee that its a universal truth.
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Old 11th November 2021, 05:46 AM   #5089
Evenharmonics is offline Evenharmonics  United States
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Only if I let it be.
andrea and dddac did / do fight to protect their business. You on the other hand, do it to protect...
 
Old 11th November 2021, 06:51 AM   #5090
Sangram is offline Sangram  India
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The Well Tempered Master Clock - Building a low phase noise/jitter crystal oscillator


Thread closed. Will be opened once civility is seen as a possibility from the participants.

 

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