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A NOS 192/24 DAC with the PCM1794 (and WaveIO USB input)
A NOS 192/24 DAC with the PCM1794 (and WaveIO USB input)
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Old 17th August 2014, 07:10 AM   #2471
stijn001 is offline stijn001  Netherlands
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I put some more time into the DDDAC last night. After I’d invested in a proper desoldering station, it was light work getting the remaining Muse caps of my boards.
Aside from this forum, a friend Cees Pel, has also had a go at trying different cap configurations on the DDDAC, which he shared with me. I took a great deal of inspiration from him in coming up with the following scheme and also from the scheme’s Stefan has posted in the forum. So they get the credit for some of most of these idea's. What Cees had done differently compared to Stefan was, use Oscon’s at the analogue side of the PCM1794’s and higher value Silmic’s on the board it self. I thought these to be good idea’s

I replaced:
C1-C4/C7-C10 with a 200uf 20V Silmic II each side with a little filtering cap (Wima, 0.68uf 63v) across them.
C5/C11 with a 100uf 25V Silmic II each side with a little filtering cap across them.
All the 47uf caps at Vdd/Vcc/Vcom’s with Oscon’s 47uf 20V
C13/C15 both sides with Oscon 100uf 20V
Lastly 22nF 63V Polysterine caps for HF filtering at the output.

I don’t want to sound like every change I make is “the best thing since sliced bread”. But the way it stands now, the soundstage and separation has improved in a big way, everything has become cleaner and more accurate. Tonality has improved, highs have cleaned up, I can hear “around” things like cymbals..

Changing to this caps scheme must be the single biggest improvement I made to my DAC so far...

Thanks again guys for your inspiration and Doede for giving us such a great dac design to tweak

A NOS 192/24 DAC with the PCM1794 (and WaveIO USB input)

Last edited by stijn001; 17th August 2014 at 07:22 AM.
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Old 17th August 2014, 07:24 AM   #2472
stijn001 is offline stijn001  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwjames View Post
....

I wonder if an OSCON would work well here?
It does, very well.
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Old 17th August 2014, 07:33 AM   #2473
stijn001 is offline stijn001  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dddac View Post
Hi Stijn,
Neither is 100% the case...

Thanks, nice that your recent measurements confirmed your initial impressions.

The fact that you designed the boards to allow for these endless combination is what is making it such a great DIY DAC.
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Old 17th August 2014, 09:43 AM   #2474
Chanh is offline Chanh  Australia
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Hi stijn001,

Thanks for sharing!
Would you please let me know where I could get those Oscon?
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Old 17th August 2014, 11:33 AM   #2475
stijn001 is offline stijn001  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanh View Post
....

Would you please let me know where I could get those Oscon?
Chanh, I got all of them from Mouser.com, they also have a good selection of small size Silmic's and Wima's.
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Old 17th August 2014, 12:05 PM   #2476
dwjames is offline dwjames  United Kingdom
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanh View Post
Hi stijn001,

Thanks for sharing!
Would you please let me know where I could get those Oscon?
You can also buy OSCON from panasonic now. They are the SEP series and they seem to be quite well stocked (at least here in the UK they are)
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Old 17th August 2014, 12:25 PM   #2477
Chanh is offline Chanh  Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stijn001 View Post
Chanh, I got all of them from Mouser.com, they also have a good selection of small size Silmic's and Wima's.
Thanks stijn001!

I wonder with this caps arrangement, in especially the Oscon at analog side, would sound like it gives extra resolutions/details at top ends but with a very thin midrange? I ask because I have been experimented many DACs before this one, where I stopped and found love with this particular DAC chip design from Doede. Hence so much efforts plus funding were investing til date.

Based on my last 12months with many gtg(s) of various DACs, I found those extra details/resolutions at top ends might gave a first impression of clarity, separation, and resolution..., however, will a prolong listening period be fatigue? A realistic example is where I found the ESS Sabre 9018 has failed me. The sound from Sabre was too clinical/digital for my ears but this is entirely personal taste and system's synergy. Here not to say Sabre is negative!
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Old 17th August 2014, 12:50 PM   #2478
nige2000 is offline nige2000  Ireland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nige2000 View Post
Click the image to open in full size.

Im having great results with this iv
is someone up for trying it?
Just to update seems best to keep the sum of the iv resistors on each differential leg under 200r
Starts to distort above 200r
I'd like to try a value of 40r and 150r but don't have a suitable 40r
I might get a variety of suitable r's to test

Neglected to say this is for one deck

Last edited by nige2000; 17th August 2014 at 12:51 PM. Reason: more info
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Old 17th August 2014, 01:24 PM   #2479
stijn001 is offline stijn001  Netherlands
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanh View Post
...
Chanh, I had the same concern. But I must say I’m pleasantly surprised. The added 100uf and 200uf Silmic caps might give it more body and balance out the precision and clear high-end of the 47uf Oscon’s. Also everything depends on the rest of the system, music style/recording, personal preference.

All I can say is I love what I’m hearing and I’m going to stick with them for a while.

Also I’m trying to stay as objective as possible. Not to think it “should” sound like this or that due to using this or the other. But rather to let the quality of the experience decide.

btw, I used to own a Sabre 9018 based dac as well. I know what you mean with it sounding digital.

Last edited by stijn001; 17th August 2014 at 01:29 PM.
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Old 17th August 2014, 02:49 PM   #2480
Almeg69 is offline Almeg69  United Kingdom
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I have been altering the value of the output filter capacitors, What is the largest value allowed ? The recommended value of 5 - 10 nf per stack, can this be increased to 20 or 30nf per stack ?

Thanks, Alex.
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Thanks, Alex.
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