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CM6631 usb audio interface .... any good ?
CM6631 usb audio interface .... any good ?
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Old 7th March 2013, 12:13 AM   #241
KlipschKid is offline KlipschKid
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by wklie View Post
If it shows up in Windows as SPDIF device, it shows the "Supported Formats" tab (which contains options of DTS Audio and Dolby Digital and sample rates) in playback device properties, right? (When I was using 0101 PID 0319 this tab does not show up.)

Please tell me what is the value in Windows Device Manager -> USB2.0 High-Speed True HD Audio (i.e. the diyinhk device) -> Properties -> Details -> Hardware Ids

Thanks a lot!
Hi,

The 6631 show supported formats : encoded formats and sample rates. I haven't seen this with the 31A. The 31A uses a different driver and maybe there is more than one 31A driver too ?

Diyinhk CM6631 (not A) in nutsaduio firmware tool says VID 0D8C, PID 0309, FW2203. This device does i2s and spdif output at the same time. In Foobar, it has two output channels: SPDIFOut00_00 and SPDIFOut00_01. The driver version is 7.0.11.80 and hardware ids are
USB\VID_0D8C&PID_0309&REV_2203&MI_00
USB\VID_0D8C&PID_0309&MI_00

Is this what you wanted ?

cheers, Tom
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Old 7th March 2013, 12:46 AM   #242
wklie is offline wklie  Hong Kong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlipschKid View Post
The 6631 show supported formats : encoded formats and sample rates. I haven't seen this with the 31A. The 31A uses a different driver and maybe there is more than one 31A driver too ?
To see the encoded formats and sample rates tab on CM6631A, the firmware 0108 PID 0314 needs to be used. Then DTS/AC3 passthrough can be supported.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KlipschKid View Post
The driver version is 7.0.11.80 and hardware ids are
USB\VID_0D8C&PID_0309&REV_2203&MI_00

Is this what you wanted ?
Yes, thanks! So your board diyinhk board is CM6631 with Firmware 2203. Their ebay products are upgraded to CM6631A.
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Old 7th March 2013, 12:59 AM   #243
KlipschKid is offline KlipschKid
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BTW, the diyinhk cm6631a have 101 firmware, and they seem to be able to use the same driver above, there's no supported formats control, the outputs are spkout, and hardware ids are
USB\VID_0D8C&PID_0319&REV_0101&MI_00
USB\VID_0D8C&PID_0319&MI_00

I'm not sure I'd describe the A as an upgrade; a change yes. But I haven't heard any difference in sound quality between diyinhk a and non-a and it seems it is a feature change ? Is this summary correct ?
non-a-2203 can do dts and simultaneous outputs, and 32bit, but no 176khz,
a-101 can do simultaneous, 32bit, and 176khz but no dts
a-108 can't do simultaneous or 32bit, but can do 176 and dts

??

Gotta hope they work out how to make a cm6631b that can do it all.

Last edited by KlipschKid; 7th March 2013 at 01:04 AM.
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Old 7th March 2013, 12:59 AM   #244
wklie is offline wklie  Hong Kong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlipschKid View Post
Good cheap parts are Fox Xpresso and Euroquartz xo91. PPM is not so important - this is the measure of stability. More important is phase noise, usually measured in ps, but for some very special clocks, it can be measured in fs.
My device uses these "1ppm" TCXO:
http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...d=13830312889&

I have wondered why these oscillators seem cheaper than others with higher ppm. So ppm being "unimportant" is the answer...
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Old 7th March 2013, 01:15 AM   #245
KlipschKid is offline KlipschKid
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PPM is important = higher grade crystals have lower ppm but people don't hear ppm. They hear phase noise, and it is basically jitter - so lower phase noise gives better definition. What can make a difference is how clean the power is for those 1ppm clocks. The card I bought on taobao doesn't sound as good as diyinhk ones - less definition - clocks might be inferior and the regulator is hugely inferior. So a power change is necessary..... but it's going to get isolated and then re-clocked with some flipflops so I hope it won't matter that much. I'm waiting on a group buy that has isolators/flipflops... eager to try that out.

Last edited by KlipschKid; 7th March 2013 at 01:17 AM.
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Old 7th March 2013, 01:22 AM   #246
wklie is offline wklie  Hong Kong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlipschKid View Post
Is this summary correct ?
non-a-2203 can do dts and simultaneous outputs, and 32bit, but no 176khz,
a-101 can do simultaneous, 32bit, and 176khz but no dts
a-108 can't do simultaneous or 32bit, but can do 176 and dts
This seems correct.

Added ASIO information to your summary:

non-a-2203 can do dts and simultaneous outputs, and 32bit, ASIO, but no 176khz
a-101 can do simultaneous, 32bit, ASIO, and 176khz but no dts
a-108 can't do simultaneous or 32bit, but can do 176 and dts while ASIO is only for Speakers/Headphones out not for SPDIF (maybe a future driver can enable the ASIO support for SPDIF)

non-a also has firmware 2205 PID 0304 which cannot output to SPDIF via ASIO. People claims that it sounds worse than 2203, possibly due to lowering of I2S to 192fs (?) Source in Chinese: http://bbs.hifidiy.net/viewthread.php?tid=709432

Last edited by wklie; 7th March 2013 at 01:49 AM.
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Old 7th March 2013, 03:31 AM   #247
KlipschKid is offline KlipschKid
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192fs ? I cannot follow that logic. fs is sampling frequency, and 192 represents sample freq to mclk ratio ? maybe they mean 192khz is the fs ? but lowering ??? For 44.1khz and a 45mhz clock, you get 1024fs. some datasheets for dac ic recommend 256 to 512fs and this is set by the oscillators, not firmware. and that device looks crap. So that thread is very much an unsupported claim. maybe they mean 32 bit sounds better than 24 bit ? I'd expect 32 bit to have the potential to sound better than 24 bit, but whether it did or not..... so different firmware could definitely sound different... but does it ? easiest way to check would be to run rmaa on spdif with a 32-bit test rig. I don't have this.

Last edited by KlipschKid; 7th March 2013 at 03:42 AM.
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Old 7th March 2013, 05:04 AM   #248
wklie is offline wklie  Hong Kong
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KlipschKid View Post
so different firmware could definitely sound different... but does it ? easiest way to check would be to run rmaa on spdif with a 32-bit test rig.
Here's RMAA test results of various USB->SPDIF chips. Although the discussions are in Chinese, all the RMAA screenshots are in English and self-explanatory:
USB->SPDIF芯片不完全RMAA测试。内含热门的CM6631测试 - 音响DIY论坛 - HIFIDIY论坛 - Powered by Discuz!

There is a follow up thread that talks about someone modified the CM6631 2205 firmware to correct the Intermodulation distortion anomaly, but I'm unable to find it for now - my google skills are failing me.
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Old 7th March 2013, 07:37 AM   #249
JarekC is offline JarekC  Poland
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Location: Krakow
Hi,

One again.
Can anyone read USB descriptor of converter based on CM6613/CM6631A.
Here is free software-descriptor dumper to do it. http://www.thesycon.de/tdd/tdd.exe
(no instalation needed)
Then we can compare the versions differences.

BR
JarekC
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Old 7th March 2013, 08:03 AM   #250
KlipschKid is offline KlipschKid
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JarekC View Post
Hi,

One again.
Can anyone read USB descriptor of converter based on CM6613/CM6631A.
Here is free software-descriptor dumper to do it. http://www.thesycon.de/tdd/tdd.exe
(no instalation needed)
Then we can compare the versions differences.

BR
JarekC
I can't, and to be honest, even if I could, I wouldn't spend my time trawling through lines of code looking for differences. Sorry, you need someone far less busy and totally into coding. That's not me.
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