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Sony to Philips I2S Format Conversion
Sony to Philips I2S Format Conversion
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Old 20th October 2003, 04:08 PM   #1
Elso Kwak is offline Elso Kwak  Philippines
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Question Sony to Philips I2S Format Conversion

Hi,
Anyone has tried the attached schematic? I got sound output from the TDA1543 but sound is way too low in volume.
The schematic is a redraw of Kal Rubinsons.
Should I delay the LATCH instead of the DATA???
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File Type: gif sony-to-i2s-gif.gif (7.3 KB, 4162 views)
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Old 20th October 2003, 04:37 PM   #2
rfbrw is offline rfbrw
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It might be a good idea to define what actual format you are starting with. The Sony format is NOT the same as the Sony/BB format. It would seem that far too often the two get mixed up,not to mention the use of I2S as a blanket term for all formats.

ray.
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Old 20th October 2003, 04:48 PM   #3
Brian Guralnick is offline Brian Guralnick  Canada
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Replace the HC14 with HC04, or AC04, the HC14's schmit input has an incredible amount of phase noise on the output.
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Old 20th October 2003, 05:01 PM   #4
Elso Kwak is offline Elso Kwak  Philippines
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Lightbulb Sony Format

Quote:
Originally posted by rfbrw
It might be a good idea to define what actual format you are starting with. The Sony format is NOT the same as the Sony/BB format. It would seem that far too often the two get mixed up,not to mention the use of I2S as a blanket term for all formats.

ray.

Hi Ray,
The format I start with is the format Sony is using before the digital filter (CXD1244S) in the Sony CDP-X33ES.
From past experience I know this format works well with AD1851 DAC NON-OS, so I guess it is Sony/BB format. Works also with PCM56 DACs NON-OS. I figured out is has room for 24 bits, but of course only 16 bits are used. Bitclock= 48 x 44.1 kHz = 2.1168 MHz.
Anyway this is what I want: use the TDA1543 NON-OS with the above mentioned Sony CD-player.
I agree on avoiding the blanket term for I2S. This has given rise to very much confusion. It should be clear I mean the Philips I2S format as this is used by the TDA1543.
Thanks in advance.
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Old 20th October 2003, 05:56 PM   #5
Andypairo is offline Andypairo  Italy
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I know a place (www.calpedel.it) where they sell the TDA1543A , which should handle the Japan format (is this the right one?) without need of conversion.

Hope it helps

Cheers

Andrea
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Old 20th October 2003, 07:17 PM   #6
rfbrw is offline rfbrw
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Though not wishing to sound like the man who, on being asked for directions, replied "I wouldn't start from here if I were you", observation and experience would tend to suggest that what you have is the Sony format with it's fixed 48Fs serial clock and that,as previously posted, calls for the TDA1543A.
Should you still need to derive I2S, you will need to delay LRCK by 8 serial clock cycles and then invert it.

ray.
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Old 20th October 2003, 07:47 PM   #7
Elso Kwak is offline Elso Kwak  Philippines
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Default Formats

Quote:
Originally posted by rfbrw
Though not wishing to sound like the man who, on being asked for directions, replied "I wouldn't start from here if I were you", observation and experience would tend to suggest that what you have is the Sony format with it's fixed 48Fs serial clock and that,as previously posted, calls for the TDA1543A.
Should you still need to derive I2S, you will need to delay LRCK by 8 serial clock cycles and then invert it.

ray.
Hi Ray,
I know you don't agree with me but I did not get the TDA1543A working with ANY format coming from the CS8412.
As the AD1851 works perfectly NON-OS with the CS8412 in outputmode 5 and with the Sony I concluded both formats are the same i.e. LSBJ justified, meaning the LSB is justified to the end of the audioframe and the MSB varies with word length.
I have two TDA1543A delivered to me in error. So I guess it is quite easy to try these on the Sony.
I could be wrong but my guess is the TDA1543A is for offsetbinary signals unavailable from the CS8412 but possible with some Sony chips like CXD1125Q when set up in the offsetbinary output mode. Pulling pin 58 high puts out offset binary, low for this pin is two's complement.
I will try to delay the LRCK too.

The TDA1545A is for outputmode 5 of the CS8412. Tried that one too.
I am sorry for the confusion, not my fault but Philips.
Ever wondered what the A meant for the TDA1541? Here it is a quality/selection grade.
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Old 20th October 2003, 08:58 PM   #8
rfbrw is offline rfbrw
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Elso,
You do not have to accept this, but there was digital audio before the arrival of the CS8412. I cannot see how one can arrive at the conclusion that because the '1543A does not work with the '8412 it must be offset binary not 2's comp. The '8412 was preceded by a number of digital audio I/O chips, most of which were hard to get,very expensive or both. More to the point the relationships between LRCLK, SCLK and MCLK are fixed at Fs, 64Fs and 256Fs respectively on the '8412 which is not the case with I2S and Sony/BB formats and if one takes the time to understand the structure of the two formats, it quickly becomes apparent that the the Sony/BB format encompasses the Sony format.
As for the TDA1545A it states on the second and eleventh pages of the datasheet exactly what is required in terms of formats. Philips put it in writing and they give a picture and short of directly injecting an understanding into the users brain I cannot see what more they could have done bearing mind that these datasheets were not meant for the layman.

ray
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Old 20th October 2003, 10:20 PM   #9
Elso Kwak is offline Elso Kwak  Philippines
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Unhappy A

Quote:
Originally posted by rfbrw
Elso,
You do not have to accept this, but there was digital audio before the arrival of the CS8412. I cannot see how one can arrive at the conclusion that because the '1543A does not work with the '8412 it must be offset binary not 2's comp. The '8412 was preceded by a number of digital audio I/O chips, most of which were hard to get,very expensive or both. More to the point the relationships between LRCLK, SCLK and MCLK are fixed at Fs, 64Fs and 256Fs respectively on the '8412 which is not the case with I2S and Sony/BB formats and if one takes the time to understand the structure of the two formats, it quickly becomes apparent that the the Sony/BB format encompasses the Sony format.
As for the TDA1545A it states on the second and eleventh pages of the datasheet exactly what is required in terms of formats. Philips put it in writing and they give a picture and short of directly injecting an understanding into the users brain I cannot see what more they could have done bearing mind that these datasheets were not meant for the layman.

ray

Ray,
No I don't accept this. The TDA1543A is not mentioned in any Philips datasheet, whatever format it is for. I came to the conclusion the TDA1543A is for offset binary format after studying a Philips digital audio file, about all kinds of digital audio chips and the datasheet of the CDX1125 indicates it can be put in the offset binary mode. Also the Aristona CDP of my daughter had a Mitsubishi chip and the TDA1543A.
I got the TDA1545A working with the CS8412.
For a very good friend I want to build a NON-OS DAC in the Sony with a TDA1543.
That's all
Tomorrow I will try the TDA1543A with the Sony.
I will let you and the forum members know the outcome of this experiment. BTW the datasheet of the CXD2500Q in the Sony mentiones the output is 2's complement format. Are we talking at cross purposes perhaps? Please define what you understand as the Sony or Japanese format.
The last thing I want is to bring confusion. I have several times answered posts on the Audio Asylum and here why the TDA1543A does not work with the CS8412.
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Old 20th October 2003, 10:24 PM   #10
Peter Daniel is offline Peter Daniel  Canada
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Hi Elso,

I would be quite interested in your findings, as I still have this project to finish http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showt...102&highlight=
and I already got my TDA1543A chip.
I also got sound when connecting TDA1543, but it was very low in volume.
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