Zen -> Cen -> Sen, evolution of a minimalistic IV Converter

I have to admit that I do not understand a scientific explanation of better sounding caps in this particular circuit.
Unless we do not believe in Kirchoff's Law.

The signal current flow through a complete different circuit than the bias current.
So how can the cap has an effect ?
Except of course for the look, which I cannot argue against.


Cheers,
Patrick
 
Hey Garrett,

I did find some of those red Black Gate Bipolars at 680uF, 35v - would these be worth trying in place of the Muse ES green ones (color coordinated, yes!)

Interestingly, I still haven't found a use for those 50R VPR220 resistor yet - one day ...

I would give them a go.


I have to admit that I do not understand a scientific explanation of better sounding caps in this particular circuit.
Unless we do not believe in Kirchoff's Law.

The signal current flow through a complete different circuit than the bias current.
So how can the cap has an effect ?
Except of course for the look, which I cannot argue against.


Cheers,
Patrick


Actually I prefer green :) I don't pretend to know why caps in this position would sound different. As it's difficult to do true A-B, I may be fooling myself. Most comparisons I do fall into the "no noticeable difference", "maybe different" and "just noticeably different". For instance, in the AVCC filtering I slightly preferred silmic II to the kaisei, so I don't think I have a particular bias for the kaisei necessarily. However, for this position I am satisfied that there is a definite difference. I do admit to part bias in other things though. For the past year I fell in love with 4-pole jensens and changed most of my power supplies to accommodate them, even in the F5X. Now those really do put a dent in the pocket book.
 
After last week experience the tip that I would give to everyone is to check the circuit one at a time leaving the others with input shorted. You have to be sure to see no signal in the shorted one.

I am meditating the design of the ultimate battery management/controller/ charging board. Anyone to embark with me in the his? (On a new thread?)

D
 
Hi Patrick,
I went back and re-read the linear article and you do say those caps are not critical because they are carrying signal current (as opposed to voltage). Yet you did mention plans to try various caps and the PCB's have a provision for bypass caps.
EUVL said:
For measurement purposes, the two decoupling capacitors are not so critical. I just used a pair of ordinary electrolytic capacitors, such as Panasonic FC 100uF 16V. There is room for experiment in the eventual application, where I plan to start off using German-made Frolyt Bipolar (220uF 25V), followed by ELNA RBP 220uF 16V bipolar, and Nichicon Muse ES 00uF 16V bipolar, in parallel with WIMA MKP2 0.01uF 250V...
Did you ever try these?
 
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Still can't figure it out: in recent audition, the Buffalo DAC with Sen (300 Riv) played louder than the one with Legato (1.5V standard output). To be precise, in 64 step relay volume control, it was 10 steps louder than Legato.

Going from 680R to 300R resulted a volume reduction, ~10db (from BAT linear vol control and just some steps down with the relay one). Still, way more louder than Legato.

Upgrading all the regs of Buffalo DACs with Dimdim's LT3042 regs, was game changer and brought to the other stages (NTD1 and Legato) closer to Sen i/v sound: more neutral, holographic soundstage with accurate and better defined instrument reproduction.
The Sen Buffalo also was improved but not so much like the others, most likely because it already possessed these qualities and was in my opinion one step at least ahead the others in SQ. Now is more or less a close call but still I think the Sen is the more neutral one.
 
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Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried the SEN with 24V?

According to Linear Audio's excerpt of SEN paper, "An 18V supply across the two JFETs is quite sufficient, though you can go further to 27V or 36V if you wish. The benefit of higher voltage is lower JFETcapacitances, which in turn means higher bandwidth and lower distortion"
 
Hi Guys,

I still need to build my xensen for the Buffalo III with ess9018...actually it has been build already, but I enjoy my tube Output-stage with passive i/v so much, that I did not changed the concept.

By coincedence I came across this wbpage: SW1X Audio Design >> I/U (I/V) Conversion – Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

What is claimed here ow is that a combonation: I/V with active devices (2 transistors) for achieving impedance matching in combination with tube outoutstage is better than passive I/V...

Is this an idea how to combine the sen/xen with a tube output-stage ? two transistors only sounds like something similar to sen/xen, no ? They are not giving any details excepts many pictures on their webpage.
 
Hi Guys,

I still need to build my xensen for the Buffalo III with ess9018...actually it has been build already, but I enjoy my tube Output-stage with passive i/v so much, that I did not changed the concept.

By coincedence I came across this wbpage: SW1X Audio Design >> I/U (I/V) Conversion – Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)

What is claimed here is that a combination: I/V with active devices (2 transistors) for achieving impedance matching in combination with tube outputstage is better than passive I/V...

Is this a reasonable idea how to combine the sen/xen with a tube output-stage ? two transistors only sounds like something similar to sen/xen, no ? They are not giving any details excepts many pictures on their webpage. See SW1X Audio Design I/U Conversion Transistor Options | SW1X Audio Design

With a smaller output-level and different resistor value, could the output cap become a film or even DC-coupled ? I just ordered LA 2 to understand better how the xen work...so sorry for my lack of understanding.
 
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Just out of curiosity, has anyone tried the SEN with 24V?

According to Linear Audio's excerpt of SEN paper, "An 18V supply across the two JFETs is quite sufficient, though you can go further to 27V or 36V if you wish. The benefit of higher voltage is lower JFETcapacitances, which in turn means higher bandwidth and lower distortion"


NicMac has run the SEN with higher voltage

Zen -> Cen -> Sen, evolution of a minimalistic IV Converter

Zen -> Cen -> Sen, evolution of a minimalistic IV Converter

Zen -> Cen -> Sen, evolution of a minimalistic IV Converter
 
I have to admit that I do not understand a scientific explanation of better sounding caps in this particular circuit.
Unless we do not believe in Kirchoff's Law.

The signal current flow through a complete different circuit than the bias current.
So how can the cap has an effect ?
Except of course for the look, which I cannot argue against.


Cheers,
Patrick

I noticed that the caps C1/C2 are in parallel with the battery-cap supply. Perhaps their effect is as power supply rather than signal carrier?