OK. Thank you.
For DoP decoding what would be better: decode by FifoPi or Es9038pro. What are the differences?
BR
Branko
Hello,
So things are easy if you wanna use 3000F caps. Get them as soon as possible.
Order them before they will be in stock if you wanna be sure you will get them in a few weeks or months.
Probably this shortage will be there for some time to come and if the manufacturer can sell a complete '' badge '' of 6000 pieces to very few big guys these pieces wont end up where we usually buy them.
Of course if a new brand pops up which is sold by a reputable company like Mouser, Digikey, Conrad than this will be a nice opportunity .
Changes pretty small that you can still get a Maxwell 3000F cap which has not been made for a long time now. The only reason they are still available ( like old T Ford parts on the Americain country side!) is that the still existing demand is triggering companies to make copies I think)
Greetings, Eduard
So things are easy if you wanna use 3000F caps. Get them as soon as possible.
Order them before they will be in stock if you wanna be sure you will get them in a few weeks or months.
Probably this shortage will be there for some time to come and if the manufacturer can sell a complete '' badge '' of 6000 pieces to very few big guys these pieces wont end up where we usually buy them.
Of course if a new brand pops up which is sold by a reputable company like Mouser, Digikey, Conrad than this will be a nice opportunity .
Changes pretty small that you can still get a Maxwell 3000F cap which has not been made for a long time now. The only reason they are still available ( like old T Ford parts on the Americain country side!) is that the still existing demand is triggering companies to make copies I think)
Greetings, Eduard
Thanks so much for the information.
Ok will do some more research on power solution...
Thanks so much.
Ok will do some more research on power solution...
Thanks so much.
Hello,
I think the diameter is just a little bit to big and the dimensions of the terminals also are different . The 300F skeleton i bought some months ago fit PERFECTLY.
You have some space available. Why you not go for a little extra F and mount the caps not on the circuit but just very close.
Because Ian released some new '' power boards '' the old ones will probably end up on swap meet here.
greetings, Eduard
I think the diameter is just a little bit to big and the dimensions of the terminals also are different . The 300F skeleton i bought some months ago fit PERFECTLY.
You have some space available. Why you not go for a little extra F and mount the caps not on the circuit but just very close.
Because Ian released some new '' power boards '' the old ones will probably end up on swap meet here.
greetings, Eduard
Hi,
sorry for asking again: In the above post you state it is always better to do DoP decoding in FifoPi. But in post #4991 you set the FifoPI for Buffalo3pro:
"3. FifoPi switch jumper settings
Both S1.1 and S1.2 was set to “ON” position, which will
a. Enable 16 to 32 convertor
b. Use ES9038Pro internal DoP decoder"
Therefor my question is ist for the ES9038pro better to set DoP decoding to DAC-chip or FifoPi.
Regards
Branko
Theoretically decoding DoP in FifoPi could be a better option than decoding it inside DAC.
Because more logic operating/timing will be involved if it is done by DAC thus more digital noise can be generated inside.
FifoPi, at the other hand, will decode DoP before the isolator and re-clocking. So the advantage would be obviously.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Ian
Because more logic operating/timing will be involved if it is done by DAC thus more digital noise can be generated inside.
FifoPi, at the other hand, will decode DoP before the isolator and re-clocking. So the advantage would be obviously.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Ian
LifePO4 Mini 3.3V user's manual
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/gro...us-i2s-pdif-fifo-kit-buy-453.html#post6818988
Ian
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/gro...us-i2s-pdif-fifo-kit-buy-453.html#post6818988
Ian
Attachments
I had enquired specifically about the SCI3400, which apparently are new. The sales rep I had contact with suggested "For smaller quantities I would currently look at 300F, 1200F, 1800F and 3200F cells." Apparently these are available at Mouser, etc.
I'm not sure what "too cutting edge" means. The SCI3400 has slightly better specs, but nothing shocking it seems. Ian's UcPure manual says: "Other 3000F/2.7V or higher capacitance/voltage ultracapacitors are also good for UcPure." That would imply that more "cutting edge" caps should work, but Ian would know better. Perhaps he'd like to comment.
As the sales rep indicated, the capacities listed in my previous post are available. Probably because they have been available for longer. Unfortunately, AFAIK these are all with weldable terminals. Not threaded. Apparently the threaded ones are all new, including the SCL3000 you mentioned.
I have asked them about the SCL3000, but I expect the answer to be the same. Will revert when I hear back from them.
Probably only the combined demand from users here would make it possible to get them directly from Skeleton. So, either way (so SCI3400 or SCL3000) there is little point in asking them without some indication of the interest on this forum in buying them.
Plus I'm not sure if anyone here would be interested in acting as middleman. I for example wouldn't be too happy to have sold the ultracaps to someone who burned his house down using them. (Making an audio PSU out of ultracaps still does not feel entirely risk-free. But what is...)
Of course there are the Tecate caps that you mentioned, and the Eaton ones. Both look like reputable companies selling quality products. Personally, I am a sucker for that "made in Germany" thing but would not feel bad about using either of these.
Trying to get the most out of TWTMC clocks for FifoPi (12)
Conclusions
1. Many low phase noise crystal oscillators work in sine wave output mode. However, digital audio systems don’t take sine clocks directly. In this case, a good sine to square wave converter will become very significant to carry over the low phase noise performance from the phase domain into low jitter performance in the time domain. The SinePi was designed exactly for this purpose.
2. AM noise can be easily modulated into jitter while converting the sine clock to square clock. So, the power supplies for the sine to square converters would also be very important. It was confirmed that the power supplies at different quality levels can result in audible sound quality differences.
UcPure 3.3V configuration with 3000F (or higher) ultracapacitors could be the best solution for SinePi so far. LifePO4 Mini 3.3V with UcConditioner 3.3V is also very good, as well as the LifePO4 Mini 3.3V only. Active regulators or LDOs are not as good as pure passive power supplies in this application.
FifoPi clean side and the SinePi will share the same 3.3V power supply by default.
3. Of course, to get the most out of TWTMC sine clock oscillators, the best possible ultra low noise power supplies are also necessary. UcPure 15V with 3000F (or higher) ultracapacitors are so far the best solution. But those ultracapacitors could be very expensive and difficult to source. Alternatively, LifePO4 battery power supply is also a good choice.
4. Oven at desired temperature can improve long term frequency stability of an OCXO for sure. However, the real listening test also showed that an OCXO with an oven is also positive to the sound quality. To avoid introducing additional EMI noise into clock oscillators, care must be taken to ground the oven properly, as well as choosing a low EMI power supply for the oven. Isolated power supply would be preferred to eliminate common mode EMI noise.
5. I could be wrong, but my own experiences have shown that the sound quality of a OCXO with a multiplier is not as good as OCXO at the same finial frequency without a multiplier. I would suggest using the OCXO without multipliers as possible.
Ian
Conclusions
1. Many low phase noise crystal oscillators work in sine wave output mode. However, digital audio systems don’t take sine clocks directly. In this case, a good sine to square wave converter will become very significant to carry over the low phase noise performance from the phase domain into low jitter performance in the time domain. The SinePi was designed exactly for this purpose.
2. AM noise can be easily modulated into jitter while converting the sine clock to square clock. So, the power supplies for the sine to square converters would also be very important. It was confirmed that the power supplies at different quality levels can result in audible sound quality differences.
UcPure 3.3V configuration with 3000F (or higher) ultracapacitors could be the best solution for SinePi so far. LifePO4 Mini 3.3V with UcConditioner 3.3V is also very good, as well as the LifePO4 Mini 3.3V only. Active regulators or LDOs are not as good as pure passive power supplies in this application.
FifoPi clean side and the SinePi will share the same 3.3V power supply by default.
3. Of course, to get the most out of TWTMC sine clock oscillators, the best possible ultra low noise power supplies are also necessary. UcPure 15V with 3000F (or higher) ultracapacitors are so far the best solution. But those ultracapacitors could be very expensive and difficult to source. Alternatively, LifePO4 battery power supply is also a good choice.
4. Oven at desired temperature can improve long term frequency stability of an OCXO for sure. However, the real listening test also showed that an OCXO with an oven is also positive to the sound quality. To avoid introducing additional EMI noise into clock oscillators, care must be taken to ground the oven properly, as well as choosing a low EMI power supply for the oven. Isolated power supply would be preferred to eliminate common mode EMI noise.
5. I could be wrong, but my own experiences have shown that the sound quality of a OCXO with a multiplier is not as good as OCXO at the same finial frequency without a multiplier. I would suggest using the OCXO without multipliers as possible.
Ian
Attachments
@Markw4
Please no worry. Those are only my own opinions. I've already said that I could be wrong in the post. So, please just let me know if you have different points.
That post is just a sum up what I did myself in the past months. Most of the ideas were posted long time ago. Don't understand why you think they are "unfair". If you forgot, you can review my old posts of this topic to see how I discussed with him.
1.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-657.html#post6668751
2.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-660.html#post6671042
3.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-662.html#post6675622
4.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-664.html#post6678025
5.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-673.html#post6686256
6.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-677.html#post6690153
7.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-682.html#post6704886
8.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-687.html#post6718041
9.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-694.html#post6741950
10.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-710.html#post6756214
11.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-714.html#post6764589
12.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-731.html#post6813401
13.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-736.html#post6821900
Regards,
Ian
Please no worry. Those are only my own opinions. I've already said that I could be wrong in the post. So, please just let me know if you have different points.
That post is just a sum up what I did myself in the past months. Most of the ideas were posted long time ago. Don't understand why you think they are "unfair". If you forgot, you can review my old posts of this topic to see how I discussed with him.
1.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-657.html#post6668751
2.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-660.html#post6671042
3.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-662.html#post6675622
4.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-664.html#post6678025
5.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-673.html#post6686256
6.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-677.html#post6690153
7.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-682.html#post6704886
8.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-687.html#post6718041
9.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-694.html#post6741950
10.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-710.html#post6756214
11.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-714.html#post6764589
12.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-731.html#post6813401
13.https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/dig...mate-weapon-fight-jitter-736.html#post6821900
Regards,
Ian
Last edited:
Between al this TWTMC and Utracaps voilence i want to ask what is the best "inbetween" option for a good direct plug in clock. I want to try a 11.2896 XO (tentlabs?) in stead of my Accusilliocons in my Fifopi (V2). I play 16.bit 44.1 most of the time.
I see a lot of XO need 5v to preform best. Can i skip the 3.3v regulation on the Fifopi, i have J2 connected to 5v? Or is this a bad idee/waist of time?
I see a lot of XO need 5v to preform best. Can i skip the 3.3v regulation on the Fifopi, i have J2 connected to 5v? Or is this a bad idee/waist of time?
Well said! All measurements, debate, criticism and subjective experience has been shown. We also have seen pics of your room so we have an idea of the system for a frame of reference. Most appreciated!
Hi Ian,
please, could you clarify the connection between miniLifoPo 3,3V and UC Conditioner 3,3V by diagram or picture?
I was thinking about that as well. Hopefully it’s possible to use that kind of XO’s
