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ackoDAC based on ES9018
ackoDAC based on ES9018
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Old 26th October 2011, 02:34 PM   #391
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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yeah send acko a pm, how exactly were you planning on getting a buff with multichannel input and output for 1000? your dreaming.

the mcu is separate, though is included in the cost afaik, i have no idea why you would want to start again from the ground up and a completely blank dac without any filters, up sampling settings, not even spdif input of start up sequence, when the work has already been done for you to expose all the settings on the dac (perhaps you didn't realise the mcu is included?). until there is software developed, you can just use terminal to control all the settings via the included usb->serial adapter, or with the wifi module and an iPad or netbook

4 x hiface module is not an option (i'm not even sure you can make an aggregate device in windows), theres a clock distribution nightmare and 12 regulators just there.
there is also an 8 channel iv on the way. either the EXA unit or titan (its the usb input from the 123k dac you found) when released are the only options for connecting multichannel usb to sabre via i2s, there are a number of spdif solutions of course.

only you can decide whether you are willing to make those compromises in high frequency interconnection and layout to save a few bucks. people who build the ackodac don't do it to save money, well i know i sure didn't and imo its a pretty misguided reason to build high end diy audio, because most times even if you don't value your time and especially in Oz due to often multiple international shipping fees, it just doesn't work out that way. especially if you like it to look nice as well

i can tell you from first hand experience you will not save money buying just the pcb and getting your own parts, you will lose money. not only can you not buy just 1 x es9018, but even if you could; you have 50 dollars plus shipping there, about 100 for the teflon with gold plate pcb, 14 x 4 for the panasonic 5mOhms polymer caps, 14 x .50-.60 for the np0 ceramics, about 20 bucks for the thin film resistors, 20-25 for the w.fl smd bnc headers, 40-50 for the xo, then the mcu. its the same on all the boards, i got onboard early on and actually did just buy blank pcbs for a few things and it does not save money some maybe a few dollars, others cost more, even without taking international shipping or the time putting the orders together into account. try and do it locally at element14 and youll pay heaps more. Acko has actually priced the kits quite fairly

so 50 + 20 for the dac
100 for pcb (highest quality pcb I've ever seen in the flesh)
64 for polymer caps
20 for r's
10-12 for np0
20 for w.fl
40 for xo
30 minimum for shipping from digikey
356 right there without even taking the mcu into account and as you mentioned already, that warm fuzzy feeling buying Australian, which also means local support

other options to save a bit are using other psu before the regs, even unregulated well smoothed would be fine as the psrr is very good. batteries would also work. if you used very high quality regulators that are able to be mounted very close to the dac as ackos are, you could either lower the size to say 47-68uf, or delete altogether most if not all of the polymer caps and leave only the np0, that would save a bit, but still doesn't get around the mcu, or the fact that afaik its impossible to buy just one dac chip.

Last edited by qusp; 26th October 2011 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 26th October 2011, 11:28 PM   #392
deandob is offline deandob  Australia
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Yes, I doubt 4 x separate hiface interfaces would work. Its I2S or nothing as a SPDIF solution is unlikely to beat my existing DAC (Lynx Two B pro-soundcard). If Acko is developing a multi-channel USB to I2S board then that would be a better solution (the twisted pair guys are planning one as well?).

Fair comment about the price of the parts, what you have outlined is a no compromise BoM and it costs more. Regulators and the IV (x4) I could save some $$ by using my own design & implementation.

Regarding the MCU, are the ESS chips that hard to program? I have experience with MCU interfacing and have not come across a chip that couldn't be relatively easily programmed (not quite, I struggled with one chip that had a documentation error about register setup....)

I'll wait for Acko to respond to my PM to see what he recommends for my needs, and provide access to more technical documentation (eg. ESS register settings & initialization).
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Old 27th October 2011, 11:25 AM   #393
acko is offline acko  Australia
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Hi Deandob,

The user's manual has more details about this DAC. I have PMed you already.

The DAC module itself is very basic and allows you to configure a system with the rest of the modules of this project or with any other equivalent types

Thank you all for the posts. I will try to answer the specific points raised when i get some free time. Still a lot of work as you can see on my "wall"
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Old 10th January 2012, 01:06 PM   #394
pedefede is offline pedefede  Denmark
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Hi all

What happend to the thread - Any news, pictures, feedback?

Any experience with different PSU?


Anyway, It sound like ESS is still the best DAC around, so ill try the following system:
- PC with winXP+foobar
- exaU2i
- AKD12P
- controller AKC12
- PS - diy (salas bib bjt for 3,3V, and salas "disco" for 1,2V)
- IV - diy (i will try different stuff .. mainly pass D1 and tube, perhaps transformer later on)
(my rig: Kevin Gilmores diy T2 + headphone stax 007 (maybee 009 later).)
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Old 10th January 2012, 06:02 PM   #395
acko is offline acko  Australia
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Default Project 2012

Greetings and Happy New Year!

Welcome to another year of this project. Sorry, I am on holidays at the moment but will be back on deck next week. There are developments going on and more plans ahead. Please check my website and of course feel free to post your thought and comments. Thank you for all the wonderful support!

Cheers, Acko
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Old 11th January 2012, 09:30 AM   #396
wktk_smile is offline wktk_smile  Japan
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>acko

Can I get some more informations about Synchronous Master Clock AKX Series?
how to switch 44.1k / 48k, buffered or not, etc...

>pedefede

I had tried the same PSU scheme as you are planning, on another sabre32 dac (Buffalo II).

It will require large space (or enclosure) to install and more trafos if you want to isolate all regs.

Once successfully installed, I believe you will be never disappointed with the result. They work quite well with sabre32.
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Old 11th January 2012, 02:40 PM   #397
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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I actually dont think its that great an idea personally. the physical size means that the regs cannot be closely coupled to the dac, meaning that the onboard decoupling caps on the dac board will do the heavy lifting anyway, the salas shunts are great, but huge and imo not that suitable in their standard form for something like the analogue reference for the dac or AVCC; as the temperature effects the Vout too much and with 7 of them in close proximity the temperature will definitely rise. i dont like the idea of a dac that needs to be sealed and needs to 'warm up' before its stable.

now if you can get past the space and heatsinking issues, you could perhaps use something more stable WRT tempco than a resistor and/or LED for the reference. you could forget the use of LEDs here and use something like Zfoil or other high quality resistor with good stability vs temp, or a reference like LTC6655 instead.

the standard regs for the crucial supplies like AVCC, DVDD L/R and Vosc are really quite excellent already and to better them i believe the only option is batteries

also if you plan on using the NTD1 IV stage as i am, you will be faced with another 50W of heat in the case (much more if you use shunts to power it) to get rid of, you could easily end up with a dac that dissipates over 100W, so you would need to case it like a power amp

Last edited by qusp; 11th January 2012 at 02:43 PM.
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Old 11th January 2012, 03:15 PM   #398
wktk_smile is offline wktk_smile  Japan
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Sorry, I had missd the fact that AKD12 has total 7 voltage inputs for DAC chip.

I agree with you qusp, 7 salas shunts for one DAC will make managing heat and
layout quite harder. I cannot recommend powering all 7 Vin with those regs.

I had only tried separate 3 regulators - for AVCC, DVCC, and VDD(digital and analogue) , thus It was rather easier to manage.
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Old 11th January 2012, 08:38 PM   #399
qusp is offline qusp  Australia
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there is no more regulators needed than the 9018, exactly the same, its just the AKD12 exposes them all as standard.

he could just use salas regs for the analogue supplies AVCC L/R, DVDD L/R and the clock, but thats still 5 right there and combined with the NTD1, its just too much without serious planning and thought would have to be put into keeping the voltage on DVDD L/R and AVCC L/R stable so they track each other, so LEDs cannot really be used imo. some will do it and think it sounds great, it probably will, but i dont believe it would actually be an improvement over the standard AKR33/3312 AD797 based regs.

if you designed a special custom case with substantial heatsinking on the bottom of the chassis and designed a mounting system to allow salas regs to somehow plug directly in like standard, while allowing short connections to the IV and it'll work pretty well, but thats not a trivial thing. i suggest starting with stock plus the NTD1 and working from there.

Last edited by qusp; 11th January 2012 at 08:47 PM.
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Old 13th January 2012, 07:11 PM   #400
pedefede is offline pedefede  Denmark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qusp View Post
he could just use salas regs for the analogue supplies AVCC L/R, DVDD L/R and the clock, but thats still 5 right there and combined with the NTD1, its just too much without serious planning and thought would have to be put into keeping the voltage on DVDD L/R and AVCC L/R stable so they track each other, so LEDs cannot really be used imo. some will do it and think it sounds great, it probably will, but i dont believe it would actually be an improvement over the standard AKR33/3312 AD797 based regs.
Thanks a lot for your advice on PS!

Questions:
1) What do you mean with 'tracking' DVDD and AVCC voltage? That they should be similar? (meaning the challenge is to get similar "drift" with tempereture?)

2) Given the premise of higher tempereture - Do you have some sort of link, to threads with your meantioned "no-LED" based shunt-PSU ?

3) A noob'ish question about SMD: Why build SMD-PSU?
Are the components better? or is it mainly the performance-advantage from smaller wire-length (especially in HF digital supplys)?



My thinking:
I do think you can use multiple salas shunts for dac. The voltage and current is so low, that each supply makes less than 1W. (I build Quanghaos dac-ash kit, that has 6 salas shunts on board, with so low Watt-emission, that they dont even have sinks!). (You can also use low ppm resistors at essential positions)

Space is another issue! But i think the boards could be made & arranged, to get the output almost as close, as the stock PSU. That is because you "only" need to squeeze 2 supplys in, on each of the 4 sides... So you have 3 planes: 1) 8 PSU, 2) DAC, 3) IV

The real reason for wanting salas PS, is to reduce price on the project (and the ability to tweak them later on) .... so if they just perform similar to the stock PSU, im satisfied.
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