Clock Jitter Cleaners

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CDCL6010 is not bad for a chip, but it uses CML logic and is a QFN package. Seems like a lot of work...
  .. the QFN package is not a problem but the CML somehow is. To solve this problem, I'm thinking to use AC coupled LVDS receivers (perhaps little logic gates from TI) wired into CDCL6010's outputs and adapted for CML logic (CML to LVDS). The reference will be one VC(X)O from Crystek.
Any thoughts or ideeas?
Cheers
 
excelon said:

  .. the QFN package is not a problem but the CML somehow is. To solve this problem, I'm thinking to use AC coupled LVDS receivers (perhaps little logic gates from TI) wired into CDCL6010's outputs and adapted for CML logic (CML to LVDS). The reference will be one VC(X)O from Crystek.
Any thoughts or ideeas?
Cheers

You throw away the performance of a crystal based oscillator, when using a synthesizer

What functionallity do you need ?
 
You throw away the performance of a crystal based oscillator, when using a synthesizer
  Unfortunately, it's true... though I was thinking to use the VCXO to feed the PLL synthesizer thus have up to 10 synchronized CML outputs available for various digital circuits used in my future DAC - I hope the losses will be minimal in this way...
  It's supposed to have the digital part completely isolated from the analogic one (that's why I want to use differential, AC coupled clock signals). These 10 clock signals should be synchronous with each other so the clock delays on my board should be minimal (the layout will try to reflect that). In addition, the fs and 64-fs clocks will be directly generated by the CDCL6010, so I wouldn't have to use (noisy) external circuits to do divide the master clock signal (CPLDs or FPGAs for example).
I have a good impresion about differential signals in therms of jitter when are properly implemented (good PS and layout, minimal noise). Unfortunately, my project requires to have one low-jitter clock oscillator with multiple outputs. In addition, I need multiple frecv. generated by one (VC)XO to used them with various input sample rates. So, this is what I come so far: XO and PLL synth.
thanx for repply!
 
excelon said:

  Unfortunately, it's true... though I was thinking to use the VCXO to feed the PLL synthesizer thus have up to 10 synchronized CML outputs available for various digital circuits used in my future DAC.
  It's supposed to have the digital part completely isolated from the analogic one (that's why I want to use differential, AC coupled clock signals). These 10 clock signals should be synchronous with each other so the clock delays on my board should be minimal. In addition, the fs and 64-fs clocks will be directly generated by the CDCL6010, so I woult not have to use (noisy) external circuits to do that (CPLDs or FPGAs for example).
I have a good impresion about differential signals in therms of jitter when are properly implemented (good PS, layout, minimal noise). Unfortunately, my project requires to have one low-jitter clock oscillator with multiple outputs. In addition, I need multiple frecv. generated by one (VC)XO to used them with various input sample rates. This is what I come so far: XO and PLL synth.
thanx for repply!

why not buy various VCXO's and select them where required ? And please use simple logic to divide clocks, otherwise you throw away the child with the bathwater

best
 
why not buy various VCXO's and select them where required ? And please use simple logic to divide clocks, otherwise you throw away the child with the bathwater
Yes, this is one possibility, though I still need 10 Synchronous clocks from the same VCXO with lowest jitter possible and I do need digital domain to be sepparated from the analog one (this is mandatory). I guess this sepparation can be made using AC-coupled differential signaling... so I'm back to the CDCL6010 "problem".
Though, I consider that CPLDs aren't so good for the clock division tasks... a lot of noise from surrounding, on-chip signals.
regards
 
excelon said:

Yes, this is one possibility, though I still need 10 Synchronous clocks from the same VCXO with lowest jitter possible and I do need digital domain to be sepparated from the analog one. I guess this can be solved using AC-coupled differential signaling... so I'm back to the CDCL6010 "problem".
I'm familiar with VHD but I'm wondering if CPLDs will be a good solution to do the clock's division tasks... when we spoke about jitter. BTW the CPLD chip that I'm using now runs up to 100 MHz.
regards

Well, you can buffer the VCXO's with decent drivers

Why do you want to separate the digital domain from the analogue ?

Bandwidth does not guarantee anything wrt jitter

Again, stay away from big complex chips, keep it simple.....

best

Guido
 
it will be only a board, perhaps 250 mm. long in the final form though the digital circuitry will take less space. There aren't any cables, only (paired-for differential, same length) PCB tracks. I'll try to keep them as short as possible without using vias. Also, I'll isolate these drivers from the rest of chips (having it's own PS) so CPLD isn't a solution anymore...
thanx
 
excelon said:
it will be only a board, perhaps 250 mm. long in the final form though the digital circuitry will take less space. There aren't any cables, only (paired-for differential, same length) PCB tracks. I'll try to keep them as short as possible without using vias. Also, I'll isolate these drivers from the rest of chips (having it's own PS) so CPLD isn't a solution anymore...
thanx

It will depend on the jitter requirements of the DAC / ADC, if LVDS is allowed, the analogue output noise level may get worse.

A good single ended coax will do a better job, for sure

best
 
It will depend on the jitter requirements of the DAC / ADC, if LVDS is allowed, the analogue output noise level may get worse.
the DAC uses four PCM1794A chips for a stereo configuration. Every DAC will need three synchronous clock signals: I2S Bit-Clock/Word-Clock and System Clock. Fortunately, there are no ADCs on that board.

A good single ended coax will do a better job
A very good ideea though, I must admit, it's an exotic one. Besides that... it would need too many cables/connectors for every DAC chip.
Best regards!
 
tritosine said:
how far the "proaudio" style Wordclock can travel safely using the standard BNC termination? Sadly the grimm clock missing these details and I read all kinds of stuff on the net. I want about 5-10 meters, cause PC with wordclock io on soundcard is "kicked out" of the room.

The allowed cable length is not a property of the wordclock generator, "endless" lengths of coax can be driven, the transmission losses unfortunately reduce the lenghts to practical ones, but 10 meter is no problem: Look at the cable specs.

best
 
excelon said:

A very good ideea though, I must admit, it's an exotic one. Besides that... it would need too many cables/connectors for every DAC chip.
Best regards!

LVDS using PCB traces is more exotic, in my perception

Forget about the connectors, coax can be solder connected to the board.

Why the huge distance between source and DAC chips ? Move the DACs to where you need them, and extend the analogue output signal: Less hassle

best
 
LVDS using PCB traces is more exotic, in my perception
well, in this case we have different opinions about "exotic" implementations. :) Excluding the care for PCB layout, I thing that differentialing is still a good approach with good benefits.
Why the huge distance between source and DAC chips ? Move the DACs to where you need them, and extend the analogue output signal: Less hassle
yes, I'll do that: it's one of the main board's constraints. I'll make a block schematic for better understanding. In the end, I guess that the distance between DACs and clock source is less than 250 mm long.
best
 
excelon said:

well, in this case we have different opinions about "exotic" implementations. :) Excluding the care for PCB layout, I thing that differentialing is still a good approach with good benefits.

yes, I'll do that: it's one of the main board's constraints. I'll make a block schematic for better understanding. In the end, I guess that the distance between DACs and clock source is less than 250 mm long.
best


Differential signalling only works as long as the full path is diffeerentiasl. Given all parasitics on biards, that is a ahard job. Coax is much better - been there, done that.

And you "should" place the clock close to the DACs, that is rule number one with DAC design.

best
 
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