A 'how to' for High Gloss Finishing

[digits]

a little automotive spot putty would take care of those little pits.

 

[richie00boy]

Ok sounds like we have found the problem.

You will need to rub it all back down to the primer (at least) and start again. If you try and paint over the enamel it may react.

Go to an automotive shop where you can buy aerosol sprays for painting cars, these are what you should be using.

And remember, you can't cover defects with paint, paint only makes them show up more. So make sure your prep is totally perfect.

 

[OneManDIY]

a little automotive spot putty would take care of those little pits.

i was using wood filler at some spots but it didnt work out quite well, its brittle and it doesn't sand well without taking off too much :/

automotive spot putty before priming?

 

[OneManDIY]

Ok sounds like we have found the problem.

You will need to rub it all back down to the primer (at least) and start again. If you try and paint over the enamel it may react.

Go to an automotive shop where you can buy aerosol sprays for painting cars, these are what you should be using.

And remember, you can't cover defects with paint, paint only makes them show up more. So make sure your prep is totally perfect.

ughhh, that would be a nightmare, it was mad hard sanding down egg shell that i had :/

i am still not sure what spray paint i shold get.... the one i got seems pretty good but i shold have left it to cure for a week maybe.

I saw someone that rolled on the pain or used a paint brush.... I am thinking of doing that since I don't want to fumigate my garage once again and choke to death (with a mask).

biggest lesson learned is that i need to sand down really good before priming so than i dont sand trough the damn primer and have a smooth surface all around before color.

Second thing is to get the right spray paint or just let it sit for a couple of days or a week until cured properly than do my thing and remove the egg shell and polish.

I am really thinking about using a paintbrush next time so i dont have to deal with covering my whole garage with plastic and breathing fumes and stinking up the house. Lay a nice thick coat without running the paint might be a better alternative.
Also read I should thin the paint if using a brush.

 

[OneManDIY]

Here is an update,
i finally was able to "cut and polish" the lamp again after stripping it and repainting with the same Rulstoleum Multi Purpose Spray paint and using MeGuairs' polishing/cutting

it is an improvement over the previous effort for sure but there is still left to be desired.

for one: don't do multiple coats.... in time intervals more than couple of hours. I much rather spray on one thick coat.... you will see what i mean in the pictures.

two: that rustoleum spray paint sucks ***?!? idk why but it does not polish well and it is super hard and this brings me to the third....

third: maybe the polishing and cutting compounds are ****? i don't think they are made to be used by hand, it takes forever and it doesn't seem to accomplish anything. There is some sort of a trick to this compound and polish that i haven't figured out :/

The cutting compound does not break into fine polish and no dust residue that you graciously wipe off and viola gloss underneath! It feels like I am wiping off grime!!!

Here is what happens. I rub in the compound with a microfiber sponge and rub for a while and it somewhat oily like clear cream with some white streaks in it. It starts to dry off a bit for a while and it never breaks down to a nice and white creamy/dusty looking powder and when i am done I MUSTN'T let it dry because the creamy clear residue dries up and you cant remove it if you don't take it off right away! It actually dries so fast that i cant wipe it off with the microfiber and the surface becomes dull again :/
I actually have to use my finger and rub it off like a thin film layer of glue residue and if i don't do it quick enough i get inconstant polish.

fourth: Doing two coats sucked because when I was leveling, sanding out the orange peel/pits i hit the second/bottom coat and you can see the hue difference in the paint like a leopard

You cant notice the imperfections from a few feet away at night. It looks pretty good but still...

When you are at the right spot and the light is shining just right.... you can see the "leopard" paint job :/

you can see some small scratches still that should have been taken care of. I used my hand sander (not orbital) with the mcrofiber sponge and in the big surface area the polish is perfect and no small swirls and scratches.... except the "leopard" :/
The swirls and small scratches show up towards the edge of the box more but from a few feet away cant really notice them.

At full brightness you can notice the polish inconsistency and the "leopard much more"

for next time.... What freakin pain should i use?!?! Any particular brand/type? How is acrylic? I dont think i want to use an Enamel any more, it looks like it never gets hard enough. And waht about my compound and polish?!? They totally seem to miss the mark, looks like i cant use them by hand!!!! They never break down to a dust/fiber/white cream and once i start wiping it off it feels like i am wiping off grime!!!

 

[richie00boy]

Thanks for the update. It looks like you have already answered your own questions though. And as for what paint, well you were told already in post 342.

 

[Top Shelf]

Hi guys ,first off this is an awesome thread, lots of good info. But I have a question about spray guns,has anyone used the "starting line" guns from Devilbiss. I was looking at their site and the one I am interested in is a (detail) gun. Obviously its called that for a reason, but will it perform poorly with primer or clearcoat ? Should I be looking elsewhere? Its item #802405.

 

[GM]

No experience with HVLP, but assuming a ~direct comparison to air and airless, it will shoot them thinned down more as is typical for touch-up/detail work. FWIW, a '62 model of this and/or several different Paasche airbrushes is what I've used for all my small projects from rosin based lacquer to aliphatic enamel to various acrylics and even black epoxy for color matching the panels of an old dishwasher to a new fridge, stove; so it's not so much about what you're shooting, but how it's prepared/applied [retarding agent is your 'friend' in most cases]: Model 115 Manual Air Spray Gun From Binks

Still, best to let Devilbiss do all the recommending as I once did with Binks.

GM

 

[Top Shelf]

Oops I wasnt looking for a detail gun. More of an all purpose one. I took alook at the binks site and the. M1-G is exactly what I'm looking for ,thanks GM

 

[evanc]

top shelf, those guns need 8 to 10 cfm of air. Make sure your compressor is up to the job.

 

[GM]

You're welcome! Hope it performs as well as mine have.

GM

 

[PB2]

for next time.... What freakin pain should i use?!?! Any particular brand/type? How is acrylic? I dont think i want to use an Enamel any more, it looks like it never gets hard enough. And waht about my compound and polish?!? They totally seem to miss the mark, looks like i cant use them by hand!!!! They never break down to a dust/fiber/white cream and once i start wiping it off it feels like i am wiping off grime!!!

I know a bit about this from the few times that I painted cars. You really ought to read a basic writeup on auto painting because it applies to what you are trying to do. For many years paints fell into two broad categories, enamels which are designed to go on in one coat and not require buffing when applied correctly, and lacquers which are intended to be wet sanded and polished. Show cars are typically done in lacquer. Lacquers before roughly the 1960s were nitrocelulous based, later they were acrylic based and called acrylic lacquer. One advantage of acrylic lacquer is that a less skilled painter can make up for poor application through wet sanding and buffing and this is what I believe you should use. It is generally accepted that you cannot fix a botched enamel job through sanding and buffing. There are many more modern paint types that require special spray guns, and special respirators that you probably do not want to use.

Acrylic Lacquer paint was the common auto paint used by GM in the 70s and 80s until more advanced formulations and the VOC laws came into effect. Dupont was the main supplier but not in rattle cans. Fender used this Dupont Automotive paint to paint their electric guitars - the colors, except for a few, were automotive colors:
Vintage Guitars Info - Fender custom color finishes on vintage Fender guitars

Last I checked, and you have to be careful because the formulations are changing - do your research, Duplicolor and Plasticoat are spray acrylic lacquer auto touch up paints. One of our auto parts stores can usually get any auto color in the Plasticoat large cans within 24 hrs. A good automotive paint supply store should be able to put any auto color paint into a rattle can for you but they are not inexpensive. As soon as you do a big job it becomes much more cost effective to buy a spray gun and most suggest this anyway for the many advantages.

I'm interested in spraying very small jobs with rattle cans and I think it would be good to start a new thread on it since I don't think it was the original intent of this thread.

 

[Renron]

"I'm interested in spraying very small jobs with rattle cans and I think it would be good to start a new thread on it since I don't think it was the original intent of this thread."

If it is for a high gloss finish it's applicable to this conversation.
Not everyone has access to or wants to use spray guns.
I love the HVLP and conversion guns I have. Fantastic finishes.
Not a speaker but still gloss finish. This was NOT polished out. Straight off the gun finish. Target EM6000 over General Finishes Espresso (my recipe) All waterbase for obvious reasons.

 

[OneManDIY]

I know a bit about this from the few times that I painted cars. You really ought to read a basic writeup on auto painting because it applies to what you are trying to do. For many years paints fell into two broad categories, enamels which are designed to go on in one coat and not require buffing when applied correctly, and lacquers which are intended to be wet sanded and polished. Show cars are typically done in lacquer. Lacquers before roughly the 1960s were nitrocelulous based, later they were acrylic based and called acrylic lacquer. One advantage of acrylic lacquer is that a less skilled painter can make up for poor application through wet sanding and buffing and this is what I believe you should use. It is generally accepted that you cannot fix a botched enamel job through sanding and buffing. There are many more modern paint types that require special spray guns, and special respirators that you probably do not want to use.

Acrylic Lacquer paint was the common auto paint used by GM in the 70s and 80s until more advanced formulations and the VOC laws came into effect. Dupont was the main supplier but not in rattle cans. Fender used this Dupont Automotive paint to paint their electric guitars - the colors, except for a few, were automotive colors:
Vintage Guitars Info - Fender custom color finishes on vintage Fender guitars

Last I checked, and you have to be careful because the formulations are changing - do your rese.................

Yep, I have been reading a lot lately actually and I have stopped at a lacquer paint and have discovered that the alkyd based paint is.... **** basically and takes really long time to cure properly (like almost never) and when you spray multiple coats you better do it right after one another otherwize you get to see the layers if you sand trough the top layer....

This is what i bought now Rustoleum Lacquer Spray in Chinese Red and it is Acrylic Lacquer actually. I haven't tried it yet but it looks promising.

A little update, in my previous pictures of the lamp I have had a crack develop in the wood due to humidity i guess and you can see a line so i got pissed off and decided to scrap that enclosure and build another one out of MDF with lock miter joints

Your comment was very helpful! Thank you, it confirmed that Acrylic Lacquer Hi-Gloss is the way to go I guess.

I am actually almost ready to paint the new lamp. Hopefully it goes good and i get to use the same procedure for the speakers i am building.

Btw I am going to use a Foam Roller with B-I-N® SHELLAC-BASE PRIMER i read it is really good somewhere, any advice? I really want to roll it on cuz i dont want to deal with the spray untill the color.... even than i kind of want to roll the color on too but idk about that :/

"I'm interested in spraying very small jobs with rattle cans and I think it would be good to start a new thread on it since I don't think it was the original intent of this thread."

If it is for a high gloss finish it's applicable to this conversation.
Not everyone has access to or wants to use spray guns.
I love the HVLP a...........

Yeah this lamp is my high gloss project and eventually this experience will transition into the speakers i am building. It's all about getting the right technique and materials here i think.

 

[richie00boy]

Rolling on the primer should be ok as you can sand it back a lot. Same with the top coat, you can roll it on, but it just takes more effort sanding back to the nice finish that if you sprayed it. And you use more paint obviously.

 

[GM]

Not a speaker but still gloss finish. This was NOT polished out. Straight off the gun finish.

So-so vision and crappy monitor keeps me from seeing it very well, but the relatively sharp reflections implies a fine gloss finish! You're making me want yet another 'toy' I can ill afford.

GM

 

[evanc]

Renron crib looks awesome. I to almost always use waterborne spray. I like the general finish much more then the target coating. Seems to lay out nicer, less problems with fish eyes, and holds on better when sprayed on a vertical surface.

 

[PB2]

Excellent site for picking colors:
Blue Corvettes at PaintRef.com

http://paintref.com/paintref/index.shtml

 

[Renron]

EvanC,
I've yet to use General finishes top coat, but on the next project I will get an opportunity.
I really like the fact that Target EM6000 burns in between coats. No witness lines if you sand through different layers. Don't even need to sand between coats unless you've got a run or a bug. I've never had a problem with fish eyes either, but then I always use de-waxed shellac between the stain and top coat. I have 2 guns too, one for oil and one for WB.
What GF product do you like to spray? I'm building a bookcase and mantle next. Suggestions would be great.
Sorry, a little off tangent but still on topic. Obtaining a quality finish.

Ron

 

[evanc]

I like the pre cat 181. I get it from homestead finishing
General Finishes

I still use a bit of solvent based pre cat
ML Campbell
sprays better and dries faster then the waterborne, but it stinks....

Shellac is my choice for smaller / nicer projects. works like lacquer but is not as toxic. The ultra pale is my choice for light woods and as a base for all other finishes.
Shellac