Hello,
Some time ago I wanted to rebuild a pair of old speakers, and I got a lot of great advice, but I just did not have time to get into it until now. I have already been given many tips about kits being better for newbies to learn, I have embraced this and I already have a couple in mind for another future build
So I have changed my mind on what type of approach I want to try for these old speakers, so instead of “reviving” that old thread I figured I rather make a new one because I would like instead some feedback, tips and opinions on weather to fix or repurpose these speakers which sound quite good and I would very much appreciate your input to weigh my options!
Disclaimer: I am still relatively new in this realm so for the moment I am not savvy enough to be up to the task of designing and making a crossover from scratch and creating a whole speaker from scratch, nor heavily investing in the repair/repurpose. This is more of a simplified rescue to get into experimenting with speakers and box building. So cost and simplicity are the most important parameters for me for this one
Speakers (pictures attached) : they are an old pair of 3-way Sanyo SS-60 speakers.
I don’t have any detailed specs to them except for the ones below and on the speaker themselves (I know it's nowhere near enough info for complex approached but it is what I have found for these oldies):
Power-> 60/120watt
Freq. Resp.-> 30-20000Hz (cant find +-db anywhere)
Impedance-> 8ohm
Highs-> 5cm
Mids-> 6cm
Woofer-> 18cm
“Plan” A - Fixing: Just redo the box respecting internal dimensions and reusing original vent for the sake of the woofer (I don’t yet want to get too deep into measuring parameters, this will be something for another project), keeping electronic components as is as much as possible. I will check these days if the smaller speakers are worth fixing (small tear on the surrounds and sometimes a high and a mid wont sound). If the smaller speakers don’t work then I won't try this approach as I assume I will have to start matching speakers and designing Crossover, etc.
For this Plan-A my main doubt is regarding the crossover. These 3-ways don’t have a “normal” crossover (at least not like the ones I have seen online on a nice neat plate). It seems that there are resistors, capacitors, etc, stuck directly to the wiring that is connected between speakers. (pictures attached of the back part of each speaker)
-Is this like an “old” way of doing it?
-And would it be a good idea to simply replace all of these “crossover” components for new ones and re-hook it up following that same “old” way? Or is there a better way to rebuild the crossover following the “old” way (like using the same type of components on a plate)? Any tips/corrections/resources to how to do so are very welcome.
“Plan” B - Repurpose: Assuming all speakers work.. Dismantle the speakers, and make different “types” of speakers for a small DIY 5.1 setup (actually “4.1” since I don’t have a center speaker yet). So in short I was thinking of making 2 subs out of the 2 woofers by making 2 boxes and adding amps to each. Then take the high/mids speakers and put them in small boxes to make the satellite/rear speakers of the "4.1".
(They would be used with an old Yamaha RX-V430RDS, which has a fixed cutoff at 90Hz for the sub, and has 1 sub pre-out.)
These ported woofers seem to have quite a good lower end judging mainly by how deep and good they sound with various types of sub-heavy music hence why I wanted to attempt this. My reasoning (if any lol) with the “4.1” set up is to mainly skip the tampering with designing a whole new crossover for now which is a bit overwhelming for me at the moment as I am starting my learning with that.. so..
a) I am assuming that small rear speakers don’t have/need crossovers, and to be honest it has been challenging to google if I need a crossover for small rear speakers for surround sound.. from what I have read it seems that unless I want a high end surround speaker I don’t really need a crossover for the surrounds.. am I wrong?
b) Also I am assuming that adding an amp to the woofer to make an active sub seems** like a simpler undertaking compared to the crossover.. am I also wrong?
c) So for the DIY sub, is it as simple as redoing the current box (keeping internal volume and port) and adding an amp matching the power rating and ohms of the woofer? Is this ok or does the box design game change completely once it is a powered woofer? If so, I would appreciate tips and some good resources for me to read up on.
d) For the sub amps, would an external amp to which I would connect both woofers be a better option/have an advantage as opposed to separate plate amps? Would having an external amp save me the redesign of a box and allow me to just recreate the current box and connect? Again, any tips & resources on how to match either the internal or external amp is appreciated.
As I mentioned this is a newbie experiment/rescue, so measuring and interpreting parameters and crossover designing is for now a bit out of my league (at least I think so, if some things are doable please correct and teach me)
I really appreciate any advice, recommendations and critiques to both “plans” so I can weigh my options
Thanks!!
Some time ago I wanted to rebuild a pair of old speakers, and I got a lot of great advice, but I just did not have time to get into it until now. I have already been given many tips about kits being better for newbies to learn, I have embraced this and I already have a couple in mind for another future build
So I have changed my mind on what type of approach I want to try for these old speakers, so instead of “reviving” that old thread I figured I rather make a new one because I would like instead some feedback, tips and opinions on weather to fix or repurpose these speakers which sound quite good and I would very much appreciate your input to weigh my options!
Disclaimer: I am still relatively new in this realm so for the moment I am not savvy enough to be up to the task of designing and making a crossover from scratch and creating a whole speaker from scratch, nor heavily investing in the repair/repurpose. This is more of a simplified rescue to get into experimenting with speakers and box building. So cost and simplicity are the most important parameters for me for this one
Speakers (pictures attached) : they are an old pair of 3-way Sanyo SS-60 speakers.
I don’t have any detailed specs to them except for the ones below and on the speaker themselves (I know it's nowhere near enough info for complex approached but it is what I have found for these oldies):
Power-> 60/120watt
Freq. Resp.-> 30-20000Hz (cant find +-db anywhere)
Impedance-> 8ohm
Highs-> 5cm
Mids-> 6cm
Woofer-> 18cm
“Plan” A - Fixing: Just redo the box respecting internal dimensions and reusing original vent for the sake of the woofer (I don’t yet want to get too deep into measuring parameters, this will be something for another project), keeping electronic components as is as much as possible. I will check these days if the smaller speakers are worth fixing (small tear on the surrounds and sometimes a high and a mid wont sound). If the smaller speakers don’t work then I won't try this approach as I assume I will have to start matching speakers and designing Crossover, etc.
For this Plan-A my main doubt is regarding the crossover. These 3-ways don’t have a “normal” crossover (at least not like the ones I have seen online on a nice neat plate). It seems that there are resistors, capacitors, etc, stuck directly to the wiring that is connected between speakers. (pictures attached of the back part of each speaker)
-Is this like an “old” way of doing it?
-And would it be a good idea to simply replace all of these “crossover” components for new ones and re-hook it up following that same “old” way? Or is there a better way to rebuild the crossover following the “old” way (like using the same type of components on a plate)? Any tips/corrections/resources to how to do so are very welcome.
“Plan” B - Repurpose: Assuming all speakers work.. Dismantle the speakers, and make different “types” of speakers for a small DIY 5.1 setup (actually “4.1” since I don’t have a center speaker yet). So in short I was thinking of making 2 subs out of the 2 woofers by making 2 boxes and adding amps to each. Then take the high/mids speakers and put them in small boxes to make the satellite/rear speakers of the "4.1".
(They would be used with an old Yamaha RX-V430RDS, which has a fixed cutoff at 90Hz for the sub, and has 1 sub pre-out.)
These ported woofers seem to have quite a good lower end judging mainly by how deep and good they sound with various types of sub-heavy music hence why I wanted to attempt this. My reasoning (if any lol) with the “4.1” set up is to mainly skip the tampering with designing a whole new crossover for now which is a bit overwhelming for me at the moment as I am starting my learning with that.. so..
a) I am assuming that small rear speakers don’t have/need crossovers, and to be honest it has been challenging to google if I need a crossover for small rear speakers for surround sound.. from what I have read it seems that unless I want a high end surround speaker I don’t really need a crossover for the surrounds.. am I wrong?
b) Also I am assuming that adding an amp to the woofer to make an active sub seems** like a simpler undertaking compared to the crossover.. am I also wrong?
c) So for the DIY sub, is it as simple as redoing the current box (keeping internal volume and port) and adding an amp matching the power rating and ohms of the woofer? Is this ok or does the box design game change completely once it is a powered woofer? If so, I would appreciate tips and some good resources for me to read up on.
d) For the sub amps, would an external amp to which I would connect both woofers be a better option/have an advantage as opposed to separate plate amps? Would having an external amp save me the redesign of a box and allow me to just recreate the current box and connect? Again, any tips & resources on how to match either the internal or external amp is appreciated.
As I mentioned this is a newbie experiment/rescue, so measuring and interpreting parameters and crossover designing is for now a bit out of my league (at least I think so, if some things are doable please correct and teach me)
I really appreciate any advice, recommendations and critiques to both “plans” so I can weigh my options
Thanks!!
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As you class yourself as a "newbie" what you are proposing in cabinet design /crossover design belongs to those who are college graduates/university degree holders or have spent decades learning the hard way by constant reading and experimenting on the subject .
And to go for a 3 way system for a start is an "impressive " mental approach .
Yes you can buy ready built crossovers but it isn't as simple as that.
How much do you know of cabinet design/construction/acoustics/ reflective properties of materials?
This is a science in itself involving university algebraic maths.
Be sensible stick to 2-way and do an awful lot of reading on the subject and use a ready made cabinet .
What you are wanting is "instant learning" on the subject that only comes with time /concentration and study.
Have a look at-
Dayton Audio - Crossovers
All loudspeakers aren't standard each has its own properties-cone design/whether plastic or paper (doped ) magnet qualities /throw of cone and tweeters are available in a multitude of types .
So its "toss of a coin " what it will sound like.
Best of luck !
And to go for a 3 way system for a start is an "impressive " mental approach .
Yes you can buy ready built crossovers but it isn't as simple as that.
How much do you know of cabinet design/construction/acoustics/ reflective properties of materials?
This is a science in itself involving university algebraic maths.
Be sensible stick to 2-way and do an awful lot of reading on the subject and use a ready made cabinet .
What you are wanting is "instant learning" on the subject that only comes with time /concentration and study.
Have a look at-
Dayton Audio - Crossovers
All loudspeakers aren't standard each has its own properties-cone design/whether plastic or paper (doped ) magnet qualities /throw of cone and tweeters are available in a multitude of types .
So its "toss of a coin " what it will sound like.
Best of luck !
Its not really practicale to plug and play with speaker drivers and the boxes. In a way what you have there is a box and construction optimised for those particular drivers. The drivers are OEM and probably built to a specific unknown spec.
But what you can do is upgrade some of the crossover components. I see in your photos electrolytic capacitors - replace these with good quality polypropylene film-foil types of same voltage and capacitance. This will give you much better clarity and sound immediately. Replacing any inductors with very low resistance air core versions (if you can determine the inductance) will improve the low frequency response as well.
Hope this helps....
But what you can do is upgrade some of the crossover components. I see in your photos electrolytic capacitors - replace these with good quality polypropylene film-foil types of same voltage and capacitance. This will give you much better clarity and sound immediately. Replacing any inductors with very low resistance air core versions (if you can determine the inductance) will improve the low frequency response as well.
Hope this helps....
Hello! I am aware of the 3way complexity, as I mentioned in my post, it has already been pointed out to me that for building something from the ground up it is better to start with proven designs and kits (2 way). I have a lot of kits to pick from the suggestions of the community . next month I will order on of them in fact 
I just thought this specific "project" was different since I am asking if it's feasible to recreate what has already been done with these speakers, i.e. redoing the box as is, and sourcing the same components to update them; always following exactly what has already been done for them just to fix and wet my toes in the subject.. not a complete redesign.
Am I wrong, is it impossible to re-do the speakers without redesigning everything?
I have studied engineering and might be going for a phd soon, so I feel confident with my math skills
By newbie I meant designing complex speakers from zero I have read recently a bunch to cover some theoretical basics regarding cabinet volumes, speaker measurements, XO components and their functions etc. I know I have a LOOooong way to go and I am putting the time on it, but at the same time I am looking for more info even for smaller experiments like this one.
I am also very interested in learning why I am wrong when I am wrong
I understand and totally agree with you on that learning is key. Believe me, I have already tried the "instant learning" approach about a year ago by asking google in several ways and did not work
. I got so many useful information last time so this is why I am resorting to this forum again and asking for more tips and information as part of the learning.
These speakers are not the main learning project in mind, for that I have other suggestions that have been given to me before by people here advising me similar things . The project of this post is just a side learning experiment/attempt.
With this "quickie" project I'm just trying to gather more information and tips on how I could go by doing this and if either one of these options are feasible. The "why" I am wrong in any of my initial questions for me is very useful and important to learn.
So any more advice, tips, corrections and resources would be great!
. next month I will order on of them in fact I just thought this specific "project" was different since I am asking if it's feasible to recreate what has already been done with these speakers, i.e. redoing the box as is, and sourcing the same components to update them; always following exactly what has already been done for them just to fix and wet my toes in the subject.. not a complete redesign.
Am I wrong, is it impossible to re-do the speakers without redesigning everything?
I have studied engineering and might be going for a phd soon, so I feel confident with my math skills
By newbie I meant designing complex speakers from zero
I have read recently a bunch to cover some theoretical basics regarding cabinet volumes, speaker measurements, XO components and their functions etc. I know I have a LOOooong way to go and I am putting the time on it, but at the same time I am looking for more info even for smaller experiments like this one.I am also very interested in learning why I am wrong when I am wrong
I understand and totally agree with you on that learning is key. Believe me, I have already tried the "instant learning" approach about a year ago by asking google in several ways and did not work
. I got so many useful information last time so this is why I am resorting to this forum again and asking for more tips and information as part of the learning.These speakers are not the main learning project in mind, for that I have other suggestions that have been given to me before by people here advising me similar things
. The project of this post is just a side learning experiment/attempt.With this "quickie" project I'm just trying to gather more information and tips on how I could go by doing this and if either one of these options are feasible. The "why" I am wrong in any of my initial questions for me is very useful and important to learn.
So any more advice, tips, corrections and resources would be great!
Thanks for the tip. I supposed they were "particular" since its a branded speaker, that is why I was thinking of re-doing them with "fresh parts".
I will check better what these components are in detail, and probably return with more questions
But first one here: If I find the upgraded pieces, I'm guessing I don't have to connect them directly in between the wiring like its done "originally", I could set them in a "neat" plate following the connection scheme right? Or is there something special about this connection that I am missing?
Thanks!
Yes crossovers "in the air" were a common way of doing things in the 50s, 60s, 70s.
You have a woofer, a closed back mid, a closed back cone tweeter and a simple crossover.
Not sure why you would rebuild these instead of just using them as they are. They are inexpensive speakers to begin with. Not sure the results you'd get would be worth the effort. But if you want to use the rebuild as a learning exercise, that could work.
Subs and satellite speakers probably won't work with these. 90Hz is too low for the midrange to go so you'll end up with a big gap between mid and woofer. You'd need small speakers that reach down below 90Hz, and that's not as easy as it seems. 90Hz is really subwoofer, not woofer.
You have a woofer, a closed back mid, a closed back cone tweeter and a simple crossover.
Not sure why you would rebuild these instead of just using them as they are. They are inexpensive speakers to begin with. Not sure the results you'd get would be worth the effort. But if you want to use the rebuild as a learning exercise, that could work.
Subs and satellite speakers probably won't work with these. 90Hz is too low for the midrange to go so you'll end up with a big gap between mid and woofer. You'd need small speakers that reach down below 90Hz, and that's not as easy as it seems. 90Hz is really subwoofer, not woofer.
Nope I haven't. Does it have educational info (as for learning) or is it more of a bio? Just asking to prioritize my reading
Nope I haven't. Does it have educational info (as for learning) or is it more of a bio? Just asking to prioritize my reading
I don't read bio,s only technical books ,the books been reprinted many times for the basic technical information, old but still relevant.
Hi! Yep they are old, scrubby and cheap.. what I did not show in the picture was that the lower back is mouldy and as you can see the sides are literally duct taped together, also at random times a mid&high speaker dont sound (im guessing a failing component or old wiring). So I guess they would be a good pair of speakers for not worrying if I mess them up hahaha
These are not and won't be my main setup (I have a Denon av with B&Ws, and a Polk 5.1 in my living-room). These oldies would be in the "dirty room" i.e. workshed/shop/room I have.. sometimes I see a movie or part of one in there during lunch in weekends while "working"
. The main reason is experimenting, yes, just another mini project to entertain myself and learn Ah ok, I see what you mean about the 90hz being too low. My idea with the subs and satellite was just to "complement" another old pair (pioneer 3ways) I have in the "workshed". So I would have the Pioneers as mains, and if it's feasible add the subs and satellites/surrounds.
What I dont know and have not been able to find out online (yet) are the 2 questions about:
-If adding a cheap matching amp (60wattsx2) and making a vented box following original speck would result in a sub (albeit a not creme de la creme sub at all)? I do understand that for a proper sub, there are specifications and measurements to make and design, etc. I am still learning on that and have a couple proven designs in mind for later. With this rough experiment I meant in the spirit of repurposing working components for having in the shed.
-And, if a satellite speaker needs a crossover when it's going to be used only for those "discrete" surround sounds, and the other speakers (main, center, sub) would deal with the rest of the work? With this I am judging from a cheap old pair I had that I opened up once and found nothing but a speaker inside. I can understand that it might be much more complex for a proper surround quality, but this quick and "rough" one is for the shed.
I'm trying to figure out what is the minimum needed, and more importantly what I am wrong about with my questions (and why)
Thanks!
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Well I just learned today from a random guy in the coffee shop that sensitivity is super important to match amps and speakers. It is weird, up until now all I had found was related to Ohms and Power
I would have assumed, given its importance that this "detail" should have jumped out immediately in searches and queries online. That would have saved me a lot of time... but Oh well the most important thing is that I learned it.
So unless I am missing something else.. I guess "plan" B is totally scratched *even for learning purposes* since I still cannot find any more parameters (including sensitivity) on these old speakers?
I mean, I feel I could safely assume that sensitivity is quite low (they are cheapos) but then if I guess wrong and overpower them I would mess it up either way right?
I would have assumed, given its importance that this "detail" should have jumped out immediately in searches and queries online. That would have saved me a lot of time... but Oh well the most important thing is that I learned it.
So unless I am missing something else.. I guess "plan" B is totally scratched *even for learning purposes* since I still cannot find any more parameters (including sensitivity) on these old speakers?
I mean, I feel I could safely assume that sensitivity is quite low (they are cheapos) but then if I guess wrong and overpower them I would mess it up either way right?
Hi, I just realized I might have mixed terms. I might have said satellite without noticing that this meant a 2.1 (2 front 1 sub). What I wanted to try using the mid/highs for was as small rear surround speakers, which I understand are meant to reproduce subtle high sounds so I was wondering if a crossover and extensive design is also needed for these tiny guys in the back too...?
But as per my last comment, given that I can't get the sensitivity of the speakers/woofers and hence cannot match amps to them, this "plan" b is out.
Thanks for the info!
To elicit focussed assistance, you would be advised to choose clearly which plan you intend to pursue. Is it to be Plan A or Plan B?
Your Plan A to rebuild the enclosure as an exact copy of the damaged one makes most sense to me.
If you can draw a diagram showing how the individual drivers and their crossover components are wired together, guidance may be forthcoming on how to mount the components on a board instead of having them 'hanging in the air'.
P.S. Less sensitive speakers simply need more amplifier power to produce a given sound level. Any decent amp should drive your 3-way speaker combination satisfactorily.
Your Plan A to rebuild the enclosure as an exact copy of the damaged one makes most sense to me.
If you can draw a diagram showing how the individual drivers and their crossover components are wired together, guidance may be forthcoming on how to mount the components on a board instead of having them 'hanging in the air'.
P.S. Less sensitive speakers simply need more amplifier power to produce a given sound level. Any decent amp should drive your 3-way speaker combination satisfactorily.
Hello, Thanks for the tips!
I posted both options mainly because I'm not sure if its ok to initiate 2 separate threads related to the same project.. I didn't want to clutter the place, but now I learned that it is better to be more specific with queries here
Also I wanted opinions on which sounded more feasible and why in order to learn.
Thanks for advising me on plan A. I have lately considered it more mainly because I still haven't found many answers online and plan A seems more straight forward. I will later look for or start a new thread about what is needed for decent surround rear speakers and be more specific on subjects
Ok great, I will be disassembling them these days and I can post pictures showing how they are hooked up.
About the amp, I was mainly referring to powering the woofer for a sub, not the 3way
So would it be safer/better to put for example a 60w or a 100w amp (these were ratings of affordable amps that didn't pass my willing budget for these old speakers)?I would understand if factors like feasibility or enclosure design would not be worth the effort for these speakers.. I mainly ask for learning about it
Please ensure that each of the three individual drivers in each enclosure is in good working order before progressing the thread.
If I am interpreting your words correctly, your final paragraph refers to repurposing the woofers in your 3-way system as stand alone subwoofers. As their names suggest, woofer drivers do not go as low as subwoofer drivers and are not ideal for that purpose.
P.S. The more powerful amp would be preferable for use with a low sensitivity driver in terms of reducing distortion and increasing headroom. When used with a high sensitivity driver it simply means that you don't have to turn the volume up as far for a given sound level.
P.P.S. Just because your 3-way speakers are 'cheapos' it does not necessarily follow that they are of low sensitivity. In fact, the opposite is frequently true.
If I am interpreting your words correctly, your final paragraph refers to repurposing the woofers in your 3-way system as stand alone subwoofers. As their names suggest, woofer drivers do not go as low as subwoofer drivers and are not ideal for that purpose.
P.S. The more powerful amp would be preferable for use with a low sensitivity driver in terms of reducing distortion and increasing headroom. When used with a high sensitivity driver it simply means that you don't have to turn the volume up as far for a given sound level.
P.P.S. Just because your 3-way speakers are 'cheapos' it does not necessarily follow that they are of low sensitivity. In fact, the opposite is frequently true.
This very week, a very posh neighbour threw away two 2 feet high speaker cabinets complete with drivers, connectors and crossover filters! I cringed at the sight, but I already have two pairs of speakers. I told the neighbour he could make good money out of them, but he replied, he is not interested.
Some people do not understand, legacy hifi equipment is better made compared to what cusumers get for 'in fashion' equipment.
Some people do not understand, legacy hifi equipment is better made compared to what cusumers get for 'in fashion' equipment.
The only mention I can find of the Sanyo SS-60 is on the forum from which NewGuy78 originally sought help:
Question - Tips, advice, corrections needed for replacing a speaker box. | AVForums
It's possible that the SS-60 was manufacured by Fisher which became a subsidiary of Sanyo.
Since the late 1970s, Fisher Corp. manufactured competitively priced, low-end speakers and certainly manufactured the Sanyo SS-690 in the mid 80s.
Question - Tips, advice, corrections needed for replacing a speaker box. | AVForums
It's possible that the SS-60 was manufacured by Fisher which became a subsidiary of Sanyo.
Since the late 1970s, Fisher Corp. manufactured competitively priced, low-end speakers and certainly manufactured the Sanyo SS-690 in the mid 80s.
Hi! I will disassemble them tomorrow morning
and I will check that first.. I lent my multimeter and haven't gotten it back, so I found a "test" with a 9volt square battery, do you think this would be a good test? Or did you mean something more specific regarding testing them?Yes, I meant exactly that. I thought that since they go quite low with bass heavy music that maybe it could be done. But I think I see what you mean, it might sound good for a speaker but that does not necessarily translate to a standalone subwoofer. Thanks for clearing it up!
Also, thanks for the info on the amp and sensitivity!
I will update tomorrow how they look when I open them up.
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