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-   -   Charlize, my thoughts (https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/class-d/66269-charlize.html)

KT 9th November 2005 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nuuk
...at the risk of de-railing the whole class-T thing, I have to say that I have gone back to my Gainclone and quite honestly enjoy it more than any of the class-T amps, even if it is not as good in some ways, it is just more enjoyable! :eek:
Yes, Nick, I know what you mean. At this point I think I prefer the sound of the chipamp over the class-T, too.

But all I can really say is: it is what it is - either you prefer one or you prefer the other.

I think sound of the Charlize will push a lot of people's buttons in the right way - maybe even more so than the the sound of the chipamps. But for me, I feel that the chipamp moves me more. It just does more of what I like than the Charlize does.

Having said that, I think we're in a win/win situation here as far as these amps go - the Charlize is $90 for the assembled module, the Gainclone kits from both Brian and Peter are $45 - $85, depending on the flavor. And here we are comparing them to multi-$K amps. Does it get much better than that?

I wonder if the class-T amps will evolve to a point where they do the emotional thing as well as the chipamps. I wouldn't be surpised to see that somewhere in the near future.

I find that a tube preamp enhances the presence, air, lushness, and all those other good things a good tube pre does, but the character of the amps are still quite distinct. I'll be interested in hearing your impressions when you try it.

Best,
KT

amolan 9th November 2005 11:20 PM

Thank's Nuuk,

Do you know where I can get a good 10k pot ?

Cheer,

Alexandre.

MrDodo 10th November 2005 03:33 AM

amolan,
Try Alpha pot. I've got mine from jaycar.
Cheap and very good.
I'm using one 50k between Monica2 and ClassT and I prefer it to 50k stepped attenuator. Very shot interconnect, in fact two male RCA plug connected back to back, to keep capacitance low and bandwidth high.
Funny with the Aplha pot, Class-T has better bass and plays higher than stepped attenuator. I am feeling like turning off sub now or at least lowering its volume.
Some say its compressing the signal! But I don't feel like this. Now piano sounds like real piano. Even my 3yr old daughter asked, what's that sound?
I don't know if jaycar has got 25K but 10Klog is available.

Nuuk 10th November 2005 08:36 AM

The class-T amps are extremely analytical, certainly with anything less than a very good recording, they could be said to be too analytical!

Now Mr Dodo says that he prefers his Charlize with a pot, rather than a stepped attenuator which I would say is more analytical than the pot! Do you see what I'm getting at here?

I'll do some more listening but using a pot instead of the attenuators that I have been using, and see if that makes much difference.

I agree with KT though, that both the chip amps and class-T amps are extremely good given the cost. It will be interesting to get some more views from those who have tried them both! ;)

In fairness, I should also say that I have a stronger preference for the GC in my main system where I use a subwoofer. I wonder if the strange phase characteristics of the clss-T amps make it hard(er) to successfully couple a sub! Has anybody else tried a class-T as the 'main' amp in a system that uses a separate sub? :att'n:

barfind 10th November 2005 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nuuk
The class-T amps are extremely analytical, certainly with anything less than a very good recording, they could be said to be too analytical!

Now Mr Dodo says that he prefers his Charlize with a pot, rather than a stepped attenuator which I would say is more analytical than the pot! Do you see what I'm getting at here?

I'll do some more listening but using a pot instead of the attenuators that I have been using, and see if that makes much difference.

I agree with KT though, that both the chip amps and class-T amps are extremely good given the cost. It will be interesting to get some more views from those who have tried them both! ;)

In fairness, I should also say that I have a stronger preference for the GC in my main system where I use a subwoofer. I wonder if the strange phase characteristics of the clss-T amps make it hard(er) to successfully couple a sub! Has anybody else tried a class-T as the 'main' amp in a system that uses a separate sub? :att'n:

I use Dipole subs, Stereo subs crossing to my OB's at 90hz. I have found that intergrating the subs with the charlize was much easier than with my tube amps. I have found no strange things happening. This may because my OB's dont make much bass under about 70hz, so there would be no phase variations being heard as with a speaker that go to 40hz or so. Thats how I see it anyway. I have used a GainClone (3375) on my OB's.It had a nice delicate top end, but I prefere the charlize. It has better imaging, bass, and detail. I had only had the charlize for a week when I compared them, but it sounds much better that it did at the time of comparison. My 2 cents worth

Nigel

MrDodo 10th November 2005 11:42 AM

Nuuk,
The taiwanese stepped attenuator that I use(d), open at full is 3db short, compared to Alpha pot. If I understand correctly, the Alpha pot will sound twice as loud open full than this stepped Att.
I have measured log curve, it's not exactly the same.
I was thinking about making attenuator that mimics the log curve of Alpha pot, except that I won't get Dale res. cheap.
I won't say that I'm clipping my ClassT now with Monica2 but get enough volume. I'll try the 50K Alps Blue pot sometime but I feel like a waste of time and will be suprised if it's better than the Alpha, specially in the bass.
I was sure an ladder attenuator sounds better that a pot, now I'm not so sure anymore.

Nuuk 10th November 2005 12:15 PM

Quote:

I use Dipole subs, Stereo subs crossing to my OB's at 90hz. I have found that intergrating the subs with the charlize was much easier than with my tube amps. I have found no strange things happening. This may because my OB's dont make much bass under about 70hz, so there would be no phase variations being heard as with a speaker that go to 40hz or so. Thats how I see it anyway.
Thanks for that Nigel. I cross my subs (TL) in at around 70Hz but there is no crossover on the main drivers (OB). I jsut felt that I was missing some bass around the crossover region but I may have been wrong.

Quote:

The taiwanese stepped attenuator that I use(d), open at full is 3db short, compared to Alpha pot. If I understand correctly, the Alpha pot will sound twice as loud open full than this stepped Att.
Couldn't you just short out that last position on the attenutor? :att'n:

jcvalenz 10th November 2005 01:37 PM

Nuuk,

Do you have a diagram for the buffer you are using between monica and charlize?

Thanks, Juan

kanaddict 10th November 2005 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nuuk
I agree with KT though, that both the chip amps and class-T amps are extremely good given the cost. It will be interesting to get some more views from those who have tried them both! ;)

Bonjour,

I used BrianGt premium kit for 1 year as second amp in my main system (first amp. = Rogue Tempest Magnum KT-88 or KT-90). The GC has a very enjoyable sound, just like and old tube amp. The level of detail is good, but the precision of the image is not the best. The bass is good, but not very well define. Switching to Chalize was a major upgrade for me. Charlize is just like a modern tube amp...... with more bass. A friend came to my house yesterday to compare my Rogue Tempest to Charlize and he said that to his surprise, they sound very close. He prefer the tube amp because it sound a little bit more warm (Charlize sound is more clean) and the vocal is more forward. Charlize deliver details, but in my system it is far from being clinical. Piano and voices are so natural. The only thing that I will address in the future is the "steroid" bass of Charlize. Next year, I'll replace the input cap as you suggested. Other then that, Charlize is close to the nirvana :D

Regards,

Andrewbee 10th November 2005 02:39 PM

In my FVP5 I use a $1.00 Radio Shack carbon pot. I used to use an older "better" TDK pot but the RS is better sounding to me.

Andrew


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